Any tips on winning domination victory would be helpful?

First off I am playing on the Mesopotamia map with 10 civs, 12 CSs. Domination is the only way to win, no time limit. Tech just to the Medieval Era. The reason I am replaying this is because I was severly defeated on King level last time playing this setup. So this time I downgraded to Prince, because I have not played in awhile and felt it would help me learn some things. The other reason I am replaying is for revenge. Most of the AIs ganged up on me last time and they took all my cities after a long grueling war. I fought to the end. The fact of the matter was the weakness of my economy. I simply could not afford a large enough army. Someone told me recently to build trade posts like crazy in puppet cities. I thought to try this strategy this time.

Now its no secret I do not care for the current diplomacy system. Its painful to be a warmonger with the penalties that never go away for the entire game. But I am sure many of you still play on domination. So if there are any pointers that may help me out let me know. Thank you for any help or feedback. I know it is possible to win this.

Currently I am playing as Arabia again. So far I have three cities and ready to build a fourth. My relations so far are declarations of friendship and open borders with both England and Egypt. The rest of the civs I have met are neutral. I am in no wars. But just starting to get barbs under control at this point. Anyway so far so good. Now how should I go about winning this thing?

I changed the name of the thread because I plan on showing an overview of my game, as I go along. Suggestions or advice will still certainly be helpful.

Alright I will try to figure this out myself. First off my scout I disbanded to buy a better military unit.

Step one- Buy or build a new scout and find out where your enemies are. As I am in a better defensible position than in my first game. I need to find a lucrative target to destroy. I have nine enemy capitals to take. (*My plan is to have 5-8 core cities encompassing important resources.) Build two horsemen, support with infantry (spears at the moment) to deal with barb camps. These horse units are fast moving and I need all the gold I can get. Mine gems near third city.

Step two- Build 4th city and procure two more resources of ivory. Sell them if possible.
Build library and National College? (*Even though science is not all important because tech ends in medieval era, I need to stay advanced militarily. In this department I am all ready falling behind. This is one area I want to keep up in.) Road will be completed as 4th city is built for extra trade route. *Arabia gets +1 gpt for each trade route, which is not much, but is something.

Step three- Build 5th city to the north next two mountain. This area contains gems and stone. Mine gems and sell one.

We will start here and see how things are when all of this is completed.

Other options to think about.

*Build trireme or two to protect sea south of Mecca. There seems to be an awful lot of barb naval activity to deal with. Think about destroying the camp that is building ships in a quick amphib exercise. Two spears and a horse, two triremes should do.

*Found a river to the west. Lots of sugar and cotton. Not many hills, flood plains, desert, some wheat though. Perhaps build two commercial cities to procure sugar and cotton. Link these with roads to my trade network.

*To South across the sea from capital. Send military expedition to build a city. Area has gold, marble, two pearls. Barb camp nearby must be one building barb ships. Destroy camp build city and link road. Or instead of road build harbor which should link to capital if I remember correctly.

*Get policy so my garrisons are free. I want one garrison unit in each city.

If I can do all this I will have 8 core cities. Fine that will be my goal.

nokmirt said:

Alright I will try to figure this out myself. First off my scout I disbanded to buy a better military unit.

Step one- Buy or build a new scout and find out where your enemies are. As I am in a better defensible position than in my first game. I need to find a lucrative target to destroy. I have nine enemy capitals to take.

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ok,ok, I'm confused here. So you built a scout. Then disbanded it. Then bought/built another scout? Why would you disband your scout in order to get another scout(?)? This just mind boggles me. You could spend your production/gold much more efficiently.
You could build 2 scouts if you really want to explore the map, which is what you seem to want to do.
Earlier in the game, archers are actually enough to keep yourself well defended.
A good first target is your neighbor AI because no matter how friendly they are, they WILL eventually declare war on you.
Anyways, it's a pretty good idea to check in on diplomacy once in a while. See who is friends with who, who dislikes who,etc. So then you can be more careful of who to be friends with, who to denounce. This can give you some ideas for first targets and will help you not get as many warmonger penalties early on.
Remember, tech is always important in any game, no matter what era it ends in.
Hope this helps, good luck, and have fun!

notadummy said:

ok,ok, I'm confused here. So you built a scout. Then disbanded it. Then bought/built another scout? Why would you disband your scout in order to get another scout(?)? This just mind boggles me. You could spend your production/gold much more efficiently.
You could build 2 scouts if you really want to explore the map, which is what you seem to want to do.
Earlier in the game, archers are actually enough to keep yourself well defended.
A good first target is your neighbor AI because no matter how friendly they are, they WILL eventually declare war on you.
Anyways, it's a pretty good idea to check in on diplomacy once in a while. See who is friends with who, who dislikes who,etc. So then you can be more careful of who to be friends with, who to denounce. This can give you some ideas for first targets and will help you not get as many warmonger penalties early on.
Remember, tech is always important in any game, no matter what era it ends in.
Hope this helps, good luck, and have fun!

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Ok the scout, it makes me laugh to say, but I disbanded because I did not need him at that point. Also, I needed the extra cash my economy was breaking down, while I was building roads. So I disbanded the scout after I had explored the territory where my main core cities are going. He did his job, but I needed a military unit instead to deal with encroaching barbs, who were having a blast pillaging my worked luxury resource tiles.

Now I will continue on with my goals listed above and see how things go. And I want to build a new scout to explore everywhere. Then I will make goals to fight my closest AI neighbor.

Scouts can indeed only be updated via one of unit upgrade ruins. And that's also the only way you get Warriors upgraded to Spears instead of Swords.

I think the main secret if you want to keep good relations when going for a Domination victory is wait for your closest opponent to DOW you first. They are bound to do so anyway, particularly if you build 3 or 4 cities while waiting.

Then you let them live by after taking their capital leaving them with some useless city if you still care about diplomatic relations with the other civs. (Also you refrain from conquering their city state allies)

If you didn't let your army get too big, there's a decent shot your other neighbor will also DOW you, so you can may be able to do the same thing to them.

But with that many civs, eventually your going to have to start the DOW declarations. Try to ensure you don't have any outstanding RAs and have control of sufficient luxuries when you do.

joncnunn said:

Scouts can indeed only be updated via one of unit upgrade ruins. And that's also the only way you get Warriors upgraded to Spears instead of Swords.

I think the main secret if you want to keep good relations when going for a Domination victory is wait for your closest opponent to DOW you first. They are bound to do so anyway, particularly if you build 3 or 4 cities while waiting.

Then you let them live by after taking their capital leaving them with some useless city if you still care about diplomatic relations with the other civs. (Also you refrain from conquering their city state allies)

If you didn't let your army get too big, there's a decent shot your other neighbor will also DOW you, so you can may be able to do the same thing to them.

But with that many civs, eventually your going to have to start the DOW declarations. Try to ensure you don't have any outstanding RAs and have control of sufficient luxuries when you do.

Click to expand...

I think the problem with this game is that I am playing on Prince. The AIs are simply not intimidating at all. My closest neighbor Egypt has 3 cities I have 6. He will not DOW me unless he is a fool. I am much more powerful. My army is not all that big, but I could build one quite easy. The reason I have not attacked is because I have good trade relations and I'm making money off of him, England, and Germany, selling luxury resources. All 3 of them are in cahoots with each other.

Right now I am trying to procure iron which is of course just outside my reach. I also need more horses. I have two and will need more for my camel archers. They will be an important part of the army of course.

Anyway, I am going to have to go after the AI civs. I will leave Egypt for now and keep an eye on him. My first target will be Persia who is someplace on the other side of the Nile river. I have my troops trying to locate him. The good thing is that the civs are not too close, so I need to take them one at a time. Sweep in there knock out the capital and puppet or annex useful cities. Raze all but one and like you said keep them alive in some useless city. I realize at some point they are going to try to gang up on me. They will even on Prince, at least I imagine so.

I start proxy wars when planning domination as the final victory type. If the first war or two is due to AI DOW you can cultivate good relations with the next two strongest non-neighbor civs. No DOFs or anything but trade a lot and don't mess with their CSs (that includes taking over ally and pledging to protect). Anyway, around late Renaissance you'll have to start thinking of DOW on someone to continue domination. At that point I'll buy off one of my allies to attack the other, or maybe a weaker neighbor of theirs on the far side. During their war I'll scout heavily in my 'friends' territory and build up. Then when you finally start rolling over the world you'll be the strongest by far.

I wanted to thank all of you for your help. I will keep all of your tips in mind.

I started a new game on King level. I am in a different part of the map now, not many mountains around, so not much chance for Machu Picchu. nevertheless it should be interesting. My strategy this time was to go tradition and honor and attain the Statue of Zeus, which I was able to build from the outset. This should help me greatly with capturing cities, and honor will help me with barbs and combat. Intially, I just worked on one city Mecca, until I was done with National College, and I got Pyramids as well. So I have a good strong foundation for my empire and have just built my second city. On top of that I will have access to 8 iron, but yet again a shortness of horses. In fact no horses at all. Not good when your UU is the camel archer, yikes! So my quest for conquest will not be for the "Riddle of Steel" like in Conan the Barbarian, but for the acquisition of horses.

I didn't think camel archers needed horses.

They don't; horses only useful for Arabia early if they want to pre build their Camel Archers as Chariot Archers.
(And they'll only need them if they want to upgrade the Chariot Archers to Calvary)

joncnunn said:

They don't; horses only useful for Arabia early if they want to pre build their Camel Archers as Chariot Archers.
(And they'll only need them if they want to upgrade the Chariot Archers to Calvary)

Click to expand...

I'll need them in this game because I am only playing to the medieval era. But I have to find horses first. I am going to need a decent mobile cavalry because the map is pretty good size.

then you should really just work on mass camel archer, kite with them (like keshiks) and make 1 or 2 horses to capture the cities.

Pax_Romanus said:

I didn't think camel archers needed horses.

Click to expand...

Horses are not required for Camel Archers anymore? They used to be. I will have that tech soon so we'll see. It would be very nice if I did not need horses. In fact they should bring back camels as a resource for desert areas.

Camel Archers most definitely do require horses. All you have to do is look in the Civalapedia when in game to see this.

Here's something I've been quiet successful with lately, it is an Animal Husbandry start wich should work well if you are playing Arabia (Rush Chivalry for Unique Unit).
It works especially well if you spawn with lots of livestock or Elephants.

I'll try to not go into much detail while hopefully keeping the essential info

Core Techs:
Animal Husbandry, Trapping -> Circus, Tile improvements
The Weel -> Happyness, Gold and Utility
(Archery) -> Defense if needed
Masonry, Construction -> Colloseum

Core Policies:
Liberty, Honor
Rationalism

Core Wonders:
Optionally Hagia Sofia, Porcelain Tower, but none required

Strategy:

After founding your city, build a Scout followed by Monument and Worker. Explore yadda yadda.

For short term research A.H. and if Horses/Deer/Ivory within your reach go Trapping for Circuses.
With this strat, you will expand to 4 cities quickly and need the +Happy from Circuses.

Pick up the Settler from Liberty and settle to a nearby spot that also offers either Luxuries or Horses/Animals. Try to look for spots close to rivers because you will have fast Civil Service and also for the Gold provided.

As a rule of thumb, I try to settle 3 Tiles away (as close as possible), maximum distance 4 Tiles. This way, you get the most out of your trade routes. You also keep your empire compact so you can defend with fewer units.

But don't research your Wheel quiet yet, you have time until you picked up the Worker and then the +Happy from Traderoutes via Social Policies (Meritocracy?)

Proceed to researching Construction. To keep expanding, you are going to need the Colosseums so you do not hit a Growth border. You want to get your cities close to 4 Population when you start building roads.

If your Opponents are too close for comfort, or you think the time to strike will come early, you should research Archery, and if planning to attack Horseback riding. Pick up the General from Honor over filling out the rest of Liberty.

Do NOT go crazy with early unit production, 1 to 3 Archers can hold off most attacks against you. You can keep some money in the bank to rushbuy Archers or Walls if you are in trouble. You want to put all your production into Circuses, Colluseums, Workers, and Granaries - as much as possible.

You should get to 4 cities by say turn 70-90, depending on how well you were doing.

If you have good lands to expand, keep doing that.
Should you desire to attack, you can switch to unit production and pump out a lot of Horsemen and Archers.

If you are short on horses, you can always supplement your army with swordsmen; in this case you obviously have to research Iron working after Construction in a timely manner to see where it's at.

Edit:
Oh, and one warning. When you start to pump units, you will most likely get into negative Gold per turn because of upkeep. You should always trade and build up a warchest before going aggressive. Rivers help, but only so much. You should follow up your concquests with Money-generating techs and tradeposted puppets. I hope that's about all I forgot

So much for my early game strat, don't take it as set in stone, always be flexible and adapt.

Good luck

Very good suggestion pat a cutie. I am building up the war chest right now. I also have free garrisons and have my swordsmen garrisoned one per city. Then I have a small standing army to deal with barb camps that keep springing up in the desert. Soon enough I'll be going on my conquest rampage. I have 5 core cities, 2 of those commerce cities that have my extra luxury items I am selling abroad. Things are looking up right now. I will put up some screenshots when I get to my first battle with an AI civ. For now I am still building up.

I started noticing something fishy about my neighbor the Ottomans. Who by the way I have a declaration of friendship with. And have had very good mutual trade with to this point.

The most important thing is that they have an army twice the size of mine.

They continue building up their forces around Najran.

At this point I become alarmed and realize he will attack soon.

I decide to pull my forces back towards Damascus and leave Najran to its fate Rather than leave my outnumbered army hanging wide open in the defenseless desert.

I suppose the Turk thought it best to finally attack. Sneaky dirty some $%#*%!

Suleiman begins to reduce the defenses of Najran. The AI uses arrows and Pike attacks. Kind of piecemeal however. When the AI is hopefully fixed in G&K, it should have more resolve. In this case the AI did not perform as bad as it sometimes does.

Najran falls. My plan is to let the massive Turkish army come forward towards Baghdad.

Which they do of course. I try to come in with my smaller army and attack them, trying to keep them off balance. These attacks hurt me as much as it hurts them, but it does wear them down a bit. In the meantime I have switched my three producing cities to full bore production, building units. My economy is handling it quite well at this point.

Ok then a unit of my pikes survives combat, but is surrounded on three sides. The unit is in dire straits and almost destroyed. I need to rescue it. My small force has lost too many critcal units already.

I send my archer scout (my best remaining unit from early in the game) forward one hex and it destroys the weak Ottoman pikeman. This allows my weakened pike unit to retreat north two hexes. Giving it at least a slight forlorn hope of survival.

My remaining company of pikemen fight like the devil. Sadly, after inflicting grievous casualties against the onrushing Turks they are overrun. I did have to try to save this unit though. It almost worked out. Allah be praised!

At this point the direct Ottoman threat to Baghdad seems to be at an end. As you can see they still have a much larger military than mine. Their weakness that I ascertain is that they lack iron. A resource I have in bundles. My plan is to organize a well equipped army. Take back Najran and invade Ottoman territory. More to come soon.

Keep in mind I am not trying to make this into a story. If that was the case it would be truly put into a novel storytelling format with character development, plots and schemes, etc. This here is just a basic overview of what happens during military situations within the game. Its purpose is to give a view of events, as my goal for total domination continues in this game. Maybe new players could look it over. It will give you an idea of how the AI plays. For one thing the AI gave up too easy on Baghdad, and did not protect Najran very well. Then the Ottomans keep asking for peace which I refuse. The AI certainly tries to sneak attack, but then it turns tail and runs. Its resolve is rather cowardly. I do hope this changes in G&K.

I have been building longswords for my counter offensive to take back Najran.

The AI has defended the place with one archer. But it obviously has no chance to hold out. The rest of the Ottoman army has simply run away. Suleiman is bugging me for peace. I cannot accept without taking at least one of his cities, of which he has 3.

So I take Najran back. Now its time to march to Ottoman territory.

I am not sure why Isabella declares war. The Ottomans attacked me, but she is friendly with both of us. I believe at this time I am trading her pearls for gold. I have my gold, but now she has lost her pearls. Some say thats why it is better to trade for a chunk of cash rather than money per turn.

Ok, I am poised to begin the assault on Ankara. What I am really interested here is the availabilty of horses (4), which I will deprive these Turks of. They have two units of knights who will have to be dealt with.

Okay, my strategy is to surround the city with my longswords on my right flank. On the left flank, I have managed to knock out one of the enemy knights. For this purpose I have kept pikes and swords on my left flank. My ranged units are tucked in behind the line, moving into position to bombard the city. Ankarra has no walls so the defense will not be very tough, at least I hope. Notice that they have garrisoned with a unit of pikes, and have an archer behind those.

The job of my units on the left of my line, also is to try to cut off any enemy reinforcements heading to Ankara. And my stronger troops the longswords will do most of the dirty work taking the city. And with them going around to the right, they are free of direct contact with enemy troops, except those inside the city, and ranged attacks. This is a big plus, you need to try to protect your strongest troops if possible.

I have managed to kill the pike and archer defending Ankarra. My left flank is also keeping enemy units around Istanbul from intervening in my assault. My longswords have Ankarra surrounded on three sides, and ranged units stand ready to begin bombarding the city. One catapult and two archers should be more than enough against a city without walls.

The assault takes three turns, but I end up taking the city. My losses are negligible. I lost two pikemen units. The Ottomans lose two knights, a pike, and an archer. Now I want to set my sights on Istanbul. However the city has a rifleman unit which was upgraded via a village reward. I am not going to show those screen shots, but I lose several units, including three longswords trying to take it out. After that I make peace with the Ottomans, and Spain follows suit. So I begin to work on my economy while building up a new army.

In this game I am not trying to rush, its a learning experience. Certainly it will give everyone an idea of how the AI acts dipolmatically and militarily. The varying opinions about the AI are like night and day. This thread will shed some light on things. More soon.