Immortal University 75 - Saladin

Habitus

Emperor
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
1,138
Location
UK
Greetings, Immortals and would-be Immortals (and indeed any other players of any level), and welcome to the Immortal University.

Here is our Leader:

saladin0000.jpg


Here's the opening scene:

saladinstart0000.jpg


The following settings were used to create this map

saladinsettings0000.jpg


Before we start, here's the copy & paste bit where I get to pretend that I'm TMIT:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

We also have an initial Immortal/Normal autosave which is much more convenient since you can avoid all the worldbuilder shenanigans. It comes with my personal seal of approval (not least as my worldbuilder edits may contain hideous game-destroying errors that could cause your computer to explode ).
 

Attachments

(1E)*edit*1W gives a great production site (and setting on the island forest is another great one with Moai, as can settle within 2 tiles as different landmass). Commerce only is from seafood+lakes+riverside thou :(
 
I think you mean 1w. 1w also picks up some unforested tiles which is nice for the small chance of picking up a bonus tile.
 
How sadistic to have BFC stone on an island :mad:

Habitus I don't see the benefit of 1E compared to SIP :confused:

Edit yay he probably meant 1W :)
 
Spoiler :
WTH, this map is ridiculous without foreknowledge.

Even now that I know, holy shieeet... we are pinned on a tundra peninsula by tokugawa, who has bronze in his BFC. I expanded past him along the coast via galley and then a barb village popped up to block my trade routes to other civs.

I think the only way to have a shot at this is to do a HA rush, and even that is going to be tough. And there's no way I'd have done it without knowing there were horses available, after all we have no AH food nearby. Maybe, maybe catapult/archer could have taken him out but it would have been ugly at best.

I lose^^ maybe I'll give it another shot but I now know the map so :/
 
How sadistic to have BFC stone on an island

LoL. ;). Yea, I was psyched I saw a new forum game! Ready to play. But honestly, after seeing the start is no thanks X1000000000000000, especially given the leader, starting techs, traits, and UU/UB :D.


@ Keilah

I lied. I couldn't help myself and played a bit. I agree with what you're saying but I did this:

Spoiler :
With Saladins starting techs seemed like a natural way to Oracle Construction. After all, fishing is a cheap tech, gets you food, and a little research. My Tech path went Fishing, Med, Priest, Writing, 2 scientist ASAP, mining, BW, Masonry, Hunt, Archery. Alpha was next, followed by Currency.

I bulbed Math and took Construction as free tech. Best way to accomplish all this was by stealing a worker from Toku and then making one additional worker back home. Sneak in a 2nd Settler before you begin the Oracle and as soon as BW is finished (late) 2 workers chop Oracle out. I grabbed it in 1400.

Lets you do a 2city Cat/Archer rush and it's not too difficult taking out most of Japan and then sue for peace. Then Chop chop chop for pults/Archers for your 2nd target. I haven't got there yet but I'm pretty sure I can get 3-4 more cities before LBs. I've got 6 cities right now. Firgure get 8-9 then try to bust out with Cuirs/Rifles later.
 
@cseanny

Spoiler :
1400 is quite late, you were lucky to get it, but well played so far
 
Hmm I have a feeling this isn't going to be an easy game. Glad i choose not to give Deity a go again :p

4000BC - 3000BC (Playing slow on this map)
Spoiler :
So moved the warrior on the plains hill and saw more ice+tundra, moved the Settler 1W and settled next turn. Fishing - Mining - BW planned tech path for start. Building a worker till fishing is in and then switching to boat since all worker would be able to do till mining was road. Worked the spice tile for commerce since we had no 3f or 3h tile.

Read about not picking tech for first few turns if its a starter tech to try and get max beakers from meeting AIs with the tech. Gave it ago this time and by time i had to pick a tech (ie when fishing or hunting would get picked for me by computer as they would finish that turn) I'd met 1 AI with fishing and 1 without. Bad news is the one with fishing was Toku and he is rather close and the land around him is just more tundra/ice barring the south. The other AI was Zara who i quickly focused espionage on, met Cathy afew turns later and no other AIs yet.

3000bcland0000.jpg


4 Turns from BW, worker has moved 1N heading to Plain Hill to mine it, warrior is heading back towards capitol to help with spawn busting where ever i decide to place city 2.

Warrior when south round to north of Toku as IIRC on tundra + ice you are much more likely to get wolves letting me xp up as safely as possible. If no Bronze is revealed I am thinking of settling 2S1W of corn and letting capitol 2nd border pop let me work the corn. May settle a junk city for Toku to let me get open borders.

Decision now is 2nd Workboat or a Warrior for spawnbusting.

 
Spoiler :
replayed again going for HA rush, but didn't want to cheat TOO much, as there's no way in hell I'd ever go AH before BW on this map without foreknowledge... 2 turns after I reached AH (and 1 turn from settling the horses), Toku stole the horse spot. Not a viable strat without either going AH first (AKA cheating), or relying on luck for Toku to not settle.

Also tried construction via Oracle, but couldn't make it work any earlier than 1400, which is again relying on extreme luck. Generally 1800BC is a slow-reasonable date for Oracle so I don't consider banking it all on snagging oracle in 1400 to be a legit win.

I guess I can lay some cottages on crappy land and slow tech construction, that miiiiiiight work...
 
Generally 1800BC is a slow-reasonable date for Oracle so I don't consider banking it all on snagging oracle in 1400 to be a legit win.

Hehe ;) I'd have to disagree here!! I watch a lot of AZ games and even on Deity he seems to get Oracle in the 1700-1500 Range quite a lot. Although I think 1800BC is a more reasonable date on Deity. Just trying to make a general point that if you can edge the Oracle out a few turns after then go for it!! I do agree that 1400 is a little bit late on average for Immortal but imho anywhere in the 1600-1500 range is typically quite fine. I've mentioned this somewhere in a previous post but if you START a WW early, nothing more than a single turn, then switch to something else it seems to postpone AIs from getting it as early.

Spoiler :
As far as the HA rush, simply steal a worker choke 2 warriors on a FH and Toku can't expand to your spot ;). But in general this was a horrible game to even attempt trying to play. I'm pretty sure I can squeek out a win from my position but STILL, Habitus!!, lol, wth man!! :D :D. RE-ROLL that sh*t.
 
I've mentioned this somewhere in a previous post but if you START a WW early, nothing more than a single turn, then switch to something else it seems to postpone AIs from getting it as early.

Nope, it was proven wrong by both ingame testing + code diving :) You having the tech before an AI will sometimes postpone the AI researching the tech, and so delay the AI that way (as they value monopoly techs higher) but once they have the tech nothing affects them starting the wonder. PH favour values make it pretty common even if not a monopoly IIRC, thou it depends on leaders in game of course.
 
I don't believe it!! lol. I was playing the Qin game from the forum and I played the game 2X and simply changed the start date of SH by a few turns, nothing to do with when I got the Tech and it allowed me to get 2 wonders I had previously missed!

I suppose my question then would be why did 2 exact games from identical save points change so drastically for me when I started that wonder some 200 years earlier by putting 1 turn into it then saving it for later. When in the same save prior attempt I missed out on the wonder so bad I didn't even have a chance to start building it??
 
Working hills and spawn busting differently are just two things that could of changed RNG rolls, and from there changed when the AI rolled to start the wonders.
 
... I played the game 2X ...

.. did 2 exact games ...

It's pure randomness and 2 games are not a big sample. You might wanna get a sample of 1000 games before we can discuss more ;) just kidding


@map: judging from the starting screen:
temperate climate and we see tundra and water everywhere, non-solid coast, triple weak sea food... this looks like pain. I'd expect us to get land screwed a lot!

judging from the comments: this looks like torture. Going to give it a short try.
 
It's pure randomness and 2 games are not a big sample. You might wanna get a sample of 1000 games before we can discuss more

I do it in ALL my games and a 1000 games, lol!? But anyways, probably in my last 15-20 that any wonders have been built I've seen a lot better results. It could be nothing more than be being luckier but that seems unlikely to me. Either way, until my personal results tell me something different I'm going to enjoy my in game success for now ;)

@ comments on map

On Immortal I'm sitting at 8 cities at 700AD. Nothing special but the game is definitely winnable. I will say that the word "torture" fits quite nicely. More like a pain in the a$$. On Deity I think it would be quite impossible.
 
Is there going to come a new IU soon or has it been stopped for some reason?
 
Nope RL is keeping me busy (which has forced me to drop out of SGoTM too), if someone else wants to host one its all good as i think it might be a week or two till I can :)
 
Well I guess I could give a shot at hosting one. Does it have to be a specific leader or can I just choose one?
 
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