CG5 - The Warmonger's Revenge, Ottomans, Emperor

Alright, I'm back with a vengence. This is another warmonger themed SG, as my last one, CG4, will be dead soon, and if it doesn't, we're going to be a crappy Civ.

Civ - Ottomans. Love that Siphai!

Map - Pangea (warmongering, baby! ), Large, rest of stats regular. Made ingame, as I seem to be having problems with the editor.

Victory Conditions - All on, but only Conquest will be accepted.

Level - Emperor. Despite the fact that we're losing on Monarch, I think that has less to do with the level than with bad decisions. I haven't won yet on Emperor, but I've gotten awfully close (in my last game, I had conquered two nations already in early Middle Ages, far ahead).

Version - PTW, 1.14f, although that should be obvious.

Variant Rules - Because the last game was a pretty large failure, not too many variants here. All the usual exploits disallowed. (I think there is a list on the RBCiv site.) The ONLY variant rule that will be enforced is that when we attack another civ, we cannot make peace until they are destroyed. So if we attack a civ, we cannot make peace, only destroy them. If another civ attacks us, we can make peace at any time.

Roster - Me
Cromagnon
Jack Merchant
Swiftsure
(Open)

All these spots are open, although I invite the crew (cromagnon, Sultan, swiftsure and aggie) from CG4 back to whoop some AIs! However, I'm not sure all will accept, as they seemed to say that they had trouble with Monarch.

I'll post the save and starting pic later today.

I've never won on Emperor, and given the fact that I only win 66% on Monarch (OK, CG 4 knocks that down a bit), I'm not sure if I should try this.

we cannot make peace until they are destroyed.

Click to expand...

Don't you mean "until we or they are destroyed?"
No, seriously, this is a major constraint, even tougher than the last one. It's effectively an "always war" situation.

Originally posted by cromagnon
IIt's effectively an "always war" situation.

Click to expand...

Not if we play our diplomacy cards right. Although I'm not sure thats possible with our record. How about this: The 'long haul' rule only applies to wars we start?

Hey: Emperor isn't that much harder. 66% on Monarch is a good record...are you sure? I don't want to push you...

One final note: The truth is, I've found variants much more fun, win or lose (that is, lose closely, not like CG4). I've also found that they get much higher participation than a regular conquest.

OK, I'm a sucker. You got me.
Just keep in mind that I leave on 3/11, and I won't have CivIII privileges (unless I break down and buy the Mac versions of both).

Originally posted by cromagnon
OK, I'm a sucker. You got me.
Just keep in mind that I leave on 3/11, and I won't have CivIII privilages (unless I break down and buy the Mac versions of both).

Click to expand...

You can't play Civ3 forever, or just for a while?

Good to have you on. Now that I have atleast one person, I'll make the game.

You know what, Cromagnon, I think I will change the rule.

New Rule: The ONLY variant rule that will be enforced is that when we attack another civ, we cannot make peace until they are destroyed. So if we attack a civ, we cannot make peace, only destroy them. If another civ attacks us, we can make peace at any time.

I'd like to volunteer for this if you have an open spot. I can win fairly reliably on monarch, and have just started to move up to emperor. Plus the Ottoman's industrious nature should make things easier.
I have not played in an SG before, but have been an avid lurker in this forum.

And so with heavy heart do i pick up my sword again. where will it end these wars within wars....... oh bugger it lets kick some butt

Sure, jackmerchant. There is lots of room - two spots left after you.

I'm off to make the map now. I'l play the first 40 too.

CGannon, see if you can do the alternating US/Europe thing again. I think it worked pretty well to speed the game along.

New rule accepted. Of course, this means we only declare war when we're damn sure we're going to wipe someone out...

Plus, if the last game is any indication, I'm not sure we'll even get to declare war...

I lose my CivIII privilages for about a month, when I'm out of town. But I'll lurk and cheer from the sidelines, maybe some back-seat playing...

Good to have Swiftsure and JackMerchant on board. Welcome

Edit: just a friendly reminder: Note to teammates: Do NOT leave units on auto-move, and do NOT automate workers!

Looking forward to this ! I'm in the CET timezone for planning purposes (meaning I must go zzzz soon ). E-mail in profile.
Our enemies will be trampled under the hooves of our Sipahi !

Alright, here are the first 40. I'm not totally satisfied, as we had some barb and growth trouble, but the terrain is enough to compensate.

(1) Here we go, the start a new empire. We are up to our knees in forest and jungle. Istanbul founded on starting spot, on the river. (Note: it doesn't look like its on the river, but a quick Terrain check reveals that it is.) Ends up that we are a few tiles of a coastline.

(2) First tech is Pottery, as is my style. Science upped to 100%, 27 turns. Worker starts mining. Man, I LOVE industrious!

(3-5) Zip.

(6) Warrior built. Goes to explore.

(7) Goody hut popped. Barbs! Argh.

(8) The Barbs kill our warrior. Damn it. Our worker runs. Our city will be ransacked. The RNG strikes again...

(9) The Barb takes gold, but there is still two more on the way.

(10) The first barb kills our work on the Warrior, and the second barb does the same, which is essientially nothing. I guess the RNG is happy again.

(11) Nothing.

(12) Second warrior is built. Spear on the way, and then settler.

(13-15) Istanbul riots. My bad.

(16) Exploration reveals favorable terrain, lots of grassland.

(17) Goody hut reveals nothing. Hey, its better than Barbs, right?

(18) We meet Japan! I trade Masonry for Warrior Code and 10g, witholding Broze Working from him.

(19-20) Nothing. Istanbul is undefended (Spear in 3) but the Japanese warrior approaches. I trust him...

(21) He backs off. Thank the Lord.

(22) Nothing.

(23) Spear is built. Istanbul will grow to size 3 in 10 turns (sorry it had to be stagnant for a few turns, either that or riots) and Settler will be done in 8. So I build a second Spear, due in 5, and then a settler. Slow expansion...grr.

(24-27) Nothing. Damn, we have some nice terrain to the south. I'll post a dotmap for it, its just wonderful. Much better than CG4.

(28-30) Another Spear built in Istanbul, settler in 8. This is slow expansion (damn barbs) but we have such great terrain to the South I can't complain.

(31) Nothing.

(32) Pottery discovered at max sci. (Maybe I should have done min...whatever.) Iron Working pushed back to min sci, 40 turns, 4gpt. Dyes hooked up. Crap, I should have done this earlier, would have prevented the riots. Argh.

(33-35) Greece, of all people, met in the North, as a Hoplite comes into our view. We give him Masonry for Cermional and 13g. Japan has the Wheel, Greece has Alphabet. Not bad, not bad.

(36) Man, this feels wrong not going to have a city by the end of my term. We're going max growth in the next bunch people, as we want to fill out our land before Japan does.

(37-40) And that's it for me. Proposed build order: after the settler, a warrior snuck in (we have two Spears) so we can explore the North. I propose to you guys a strategy question: should we build two spears in our cities before a settler, to prevent the lack of defenders? I usually do this, but it can hinder growth. It really depends on the situation, as you can sometimes fit in 2 spears and a settler without trouble, but sometimes that second spear pushes the settler too far back, which hurts growth. Oh, and no dotmap, I have stuff to do.

Here is a pic of the start:




And the save:


CG5 Save

Um, where's the roster?

Japanese warrior approaches. I trust him...

Click to expand...

I thought it was almost time for CG6!

OK, my bad. I forgot to sacrifice a virgin to the RNG god again. Hate when that happens.

Nothing I could do anyway. I don't think I could've rushed the Spear, because I think I was at size one.

You're up, cromagnon! Sorry, the roster is in the bottom of the first post:

Cromagnon -> Up Now
Jack Merchant -> On Deck
Swiftsure
(Open)
Me

Good Luck, cromagnon!

Got it

You playing tonight, cromagnon?

CroSultan looks upon his lone city. It will soon grow to an empire, he thinks. Everything seems to be in order, with a settler due in 2 cycles.
[1] 2590BC: Worker builds road, warrior explores SW

[2] 2550BC: Istanbul builds settler -> Spear for now, may change it. Settler/spear move south.

[3] 2510BC: nothing

[4] 2470BC: Edrine founded, build warrior. Worker starts mining.

[5] 2430BC: nothing

[6] 2390BC: more mining

[7] 2350BC: nothing

[8] 2310BC: Erdrine warrior -> spear. Warrior explores west.

[9] 2270BC: Istanbul spear -> warrior (doesn't grow fast enough for settler; we need granary here). Spear explores a bit east. Alexander and Tokugawa want too much for Wheel. Alex has monopoly on mysticism & alphabet. Worker starts roading south.

[10] 2230BC: nothing

[11] 2190BC: nothing

[12] 2150BC: Istanbul warrior -> settler. Warrior explores north. Woohoo! Cattle and wheat to the east!

[13] 2110BC: They still want all our gold plus 2 gpt for wheel or mysticism, and Alex won't let alphabet go. Istanbul to grow and produce settler in 7. I wonder if it would riot before it got built if SultanGannon hadn't hooked up dyes...
IBT: An Aztec Jaguar warrior shows up to the west.

[14] 2070BC: Greece and Aztecs have Alphabet, mysticism, and wheel. Japan lacks Alphabet. I trade Greece Contact with Japan and 52 gold for Contact with Korea and Alphabet. Korea only hase 17 gold and lacks Masonry. Bummer. Greece has monopoly on Writing (I've never seen the AI beeline for Literature!). I give Japan Alphabet for wheel straight up. They all want gpt for Mysticism, so I hold off.

[15] 2030BC: Edrine builds spear -> wealth for 1 turn, then settler in 8 (to allow growth). Spear goes to protect worker, as Aztecs are nearby.

[16] 1990BC: nothing
IBT: Korean spear spotted to the north.

[17] 1950BC: Spear approaches goody hut to the east.

[18] 1910BC: Sure enough, Bactran warrior emerge from the hut. Korea has writing. I get this for Wheel, Japanese Contact, and 53 gold. I sell writing to Japan for Mysticism and 65 gold. This brings everyone to parity, and we have 122 in the bank.
IBT: Our spear is attacked by 2 warriors, and promotes, taking a scratch. Japan settles to the south, by the wheat (but we can still get the cattle).

[19] 1870BC: Our warrior to the north attacks a barb camp but loses. Our spear starts heading back to pick up the settler which is to emerge from Istanbul.
IBT: Lonely barbarian warrior attacks our spear, making him elite. :saiyan:

[20] 1830BC: Istanbul settler -> granary. Settler moves east. I finally spot some horses waaay to the NW.

We have 153+8gpt, tech parity, and our neighbors are dirt poor. IW due in 16.

CroSultan looks at his worthy successor, Sultan Jack, and suggests the following:
The settler should probably settle the nearby wheat/cattle spot.
Settler in Edrine due in 4, should head south to claim the cattle and wheat.

He hands the sceptre of power over: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads3/CG5-1830.SAV

Priority should be given to Red and Blue, then Hot Pink.
We'll se what we can get after that.
I'm not particularly attached to the others,
although orange will give us gems.

Istanbul has problems growing, not with shields,
which is why I set it to granary.

And yes, as we may box Japan in, we'd better beef upon defense.

Nice work cromagnon. From the minimap, it looks like, with a little work, we can corner Japan in. You know what that means...

Jack -> Up Now
Swiftsure -> On Deck
(Open)
Me
Cromagnon

sign up tiem baby! i am sure i will do fine. Unliek the last gmae lets NOT quiit it.