Movement Range Limit

Dancing Hoskuld

Dancing Hoskuld

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On the modcomps forum flug_auto posted a straight forward mod (Movement Range Limit) to limit how far a unit can travel from your cultural borders. It simulates supply lines.

Spoiler :
flug_auto said:
This is my first work with Python. :nuke:

Movement of the units is limited to a certain radius around the cities. The radius is increased by culture level of the cities, by certain techs, by eras.

Radius increasing techs: Mysticism, The Wheel, Horseback Riding, sailing, Calendar, Engineering, Compass, Optics, Astronomy, Railroads, Combustion, Radio, Flight, Satellites.

FORMULA: radius = 2 + [ERA] + [TECH_BONUS] + [MAX_CITY_CULTURE_LEVEL] * 2

Based on Melendor/The J 's work.
Click to expand...

With a bit of work and adjustment for nomads it may be very useful for C2C.
  • It will slow down exploration of the world.
  • It may provide a basis to help improve the AI war declaration and activity.
  • It may make nomadic viable well into the Renaissance

Some simple changes for C2C
  1. Vassel/Master cultural borders count as yours.
  2. The plot a settler unit is on counts as yours for all units except a settler.
  3. All military and worker units have the limit as per mod.
  4. Settlers, hunters and thieves have 150% of the limit.
  5. All ships, recon, diplomat and espionage have 200% of the limit
  6. Great Merchant, Food Merchant and Trade Merchant are special cases.

Nomad units are a special case. The limit is based on the nearest nomad unit not cultural borders. Yes I know these units are still in early prototype.

Random Notes:

- Forts outside your territory leading towards your enemy can give you the reach you need while stopping them from reaching your lands. perhaps we need an earlier fort which only spreads culture to its plot and gives a small bonus to defense - "Supply Depot". IIRC the Hittites or someone used this concept to get their armies across the desert to attack Ancient Egypt.

- Nomads are a real threat since they can move their whole nation up next to yours to attack then withdraw so you can't get at them.

- If the AI can't reach someone then it should not declare war but can still work towards war by building the supply lines or forts. Gives a bit more of a warning if you have recon out there.

- AI wont need to build attack forces if it can't attack anyone, nor many defense forces if they can't be reached. Means more economic activity.
 
This looks really amazing. I would definitely have to test this for ships because I think ocean-going ships would need to roam further to pull off the circumnavigation bonus. Maybe reserve that for the "Can Explore Rival Territory" ships (Caravel, etc.)?
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Spoiler :
On the modcomps forum flug_auto posted a straight forward mod (Movement Range Limit) to limit how far a unit can travel from your cultural borders. It simulates supply lines.



With a bit of work and adjustment for nomads it may be very useful for C2C.
  • It will slow down exploration of the world.
  • It may provide a basis to help improve the AI war declaration and activity.
  • It may make nomadic viable well into the Renaissance

Some simple changes for C2C
  1. Vassel/Master cultural borders count as yours.
  2. The plot a settler unit is on counts as yours for all units except a settler.
  3. All military and worker units have the limit as per mod.
  4. Settlers, hunters and thieves have 150% of the limit.
  5. All ships, recon, diplomat and espionage have 200% of the limit
  6. Great Merchant, Food Merchant and Trade Merchant are special cases.

Nomad units are a special case. The limit is based on the nearest nomad unit not cultural borders. Yes I know these units are still in early prototype.

Random Notes:

- Forts outside your territory leading towards your enemy can give you the reach you need while stopping them from reaching your lands. perhaps we need an earlier fort which only spreads culture to its plot and gives a small bonus to defense - "Supply Depot". IIRC the Hittites or someone used this concept to get their armies across the desert to attack Ancient Egypt.

- Nomads are a real threat since they can move their whole nation up next to yours to attack then withdraw so you can't get at them.

- If the AI can't reach someone then it should not declare war but can still work towards war by building the supply lines or forts. Gives a bit more of a warning if you have recon out there.

- AI wont need to build attack forces if it can't attack anyone, nor many defense forces if they can't be reached. Means more economic activity.
Click to expand...

I am all for it!

The idea with early forts I had as well... maybe with carpentry you could build an outpost (a little wooden tower) which gives you culture on the tile it is built on and like 10% defense. the wooden tower would become a stone tower (20%) with lets say megalith construction and then a fort with math (30%) then a castle with engineering (40%) and then entrenchments and star-shaped earthworks for 50% (obsolete with better artillery).

Modern warfare then would have to have two different fortifications: normal trenches (15%) and bunkers (30% +% vs air). Don't know if there are graphics for trenches but I am sure there are graphics for tiles with craters of arty.
 
strategyonly said:
Sounds interesting, and more than likely a more realistic look at really what happened in Prehistoric Era, they hardly ever traveled more than a mile away from their base village.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree with this. I generally have a mini-stack (Tracker, Stone Axeman, Great General) roam all the way around my starting continent.
 
And one of the negative Traits could be reducing it if going with that.

Also, with having larger map options and a lot more technologies in C2C than normal either the formula needs a little leniency/tweak or more techs increasing the ranges.

And I'm also thinking that at some Era the limit on movement should be removed completely, Industrial most likely. Some wonders could be set to remove it early, (or increase it a lot) like Magellan's Voyage and Marco Polo's Embassy, and maybe add a wonder or two for it.

Though, come to think of it, unless it increases load and decreases performance too much, why not use the Property System for something like this?
Each Nation would have it's own Property that spread from it's Cities (via buildings/wonders/culture level/technologies), Improvements (forts for instance), and Units (some, not all, Great Generals assuredly, and Nomads too).
To enter a plot a certain level of [own] Property is needed with long range units requiring a lower amount and some few (city guard/police units) requiring a higher amount. A very few select units might require no Property at all, think UU's.
And at either a certain Era or Technology the property is disabled or removed and no limits on units moving exist anymore.

Cheers
 
BlueGenie said:
Though, come to think of it, unless it increases load and decreases performance too much, why not use the Property System for something like this?
Each Nation would have it's own Property that spread from it's Cities (via buildings/wonders/culture level/technologies), Improvements (forts for instance), and Units (some, not all, Great Generals assuredly, and Nomads too).
To enter a plot a certain level of [own] Property is needed with long range units requiring a lower amount and some few (city guard/police units) requiring a higher amount. A very few select units might require no Property at all, think UU's.
And at either a certain Era or Technology the property is disabled or removed and no limits on units moving exist anymore.

Cheers
Click to expand...

May work for settled nations but what about the barbarians and nomads?:mischief:
 
Like I said, Nomads and possibly other units in the nomad period, spread the [own] Property too.

Didn't know Barbarians or Animals would be affected by it, well, actually figured they wouldn't be as that might defeat the purpose of them, especially animals and barbarians without a city base.

Cheers

EDIT: The property would dissipate like any other property so even when having it in some area during the Nomad phase it'd be gone later on, and would fit with having a band roam rather than being stabilized in just one area.

Cheers
 
Two words:

Fixed

Borders

In any civioc that has those I can readily extend my supply lines indefinately by anexing one tile at max range as a steppign stone, and so on. The definition of 'cultural borders' would have to change. Maybe max-distance to nearest city instead?
 
Yes, it could be only possible to annex tiles in a certain radius around the city (much like the buy land option I pictured but only by force)
 
This sounds awesome, only thing that slows down my initial exploration is animals on 'raging barbarians', but this should slow down exploration enough that I shouldn't afford seeing the Europeans as China (and visa versa) by 3000 BC. :P
 
DRJ said:
I am all for it!

The idea with early forts I had as well... maybe with carpentry you could build an outpost (a little wooden tower) which gives you culture on the tile it is built on and like 10% defense. the wooden tower would become a stone tower (20%) with lets say megalith construction and then a fort with math (30%) then a castle with engineering (40%) and then entrenchments and star-shaped earthworks for 50% (obsolete with better artillery).

Modern warfare then would have to have two different fortifications: normal trenches (15%) and bunkers (30% +% vs air). Don't know if there are graphics for trenches but I am sure there are graphics for tiles with craters of arty.
Click to expand...

Apart from liking the original idea I like this just for it´s own sake.. I look forward to trench warfare :)

Maybe the original concept could be modified to take the units movement points into account? Since a tank can operate far further then infantry.
 
I am absolutely in love with this idea. One idea that should be considered as well is Foraging. In real life, armies in foreign territories usually sustained themselves by "Foraging", which is a nice way of saying that they brutally pillaged the countryside for food and supplies. This practice went on all the way until the modern era, and in some cases, still happens.

Perhaps pillaging tile improvements could give your army the necessary supplies to extend their range for a few tiles before they have to pillage again?
 
hotrodlincoln said:
I am absolutely in love with this idea. One idea that should be considered as well is Foraging. In real life, armies in foreign territories usually sustained themselves by "Foraging", which is a nice way of saying that they brutally pillaged the countryside for food and supplies. This practice went on all the way until the modern era, and in some cases, still happens.

Perhaps pillaging tile improvements could give your army the necessary supplies to extend their range for a few tiles before they have to pillage again?
Click to expand...

Lot yeah and if they would have nothing to pillage, get no food merchants with them, they would slowly die like territory damage/turn. think of Alexanders Army coming back from india. or Napoleon in Russia.

In early prehistoric the movement rules could be avoided by either giving those units a 'move anywhere/self-substation' promo or introducing that property later in the game.

Later armies with much more people could not have this self-substation ability.
Actually, having heavy equiped units could come at a larger price so big nations waging war had to invest big times while small countries could mount a relatively light military logistics/maintenance, catching up a lot faster.

The wooden tower/stone tower/fort/... would be able to count as logistics posts, where you could build/buy food merchants and hire local scouts [after all, every tile on earth has a least little human population (new property maybe, like crime) hasn't it?
So although your civs has cultural borders, the neutral tile next to it has some outcast people living there, right? Sometimes they become barbaric, but couldn't they be seen if they are not barbaric or do they hide from the civs like Yetis?

Another upcoming concept to theorize about. :D
 
Koshling said:
Two words:

Fixed

Borders

In any civioc that has those I can readily extend my supply lines indefinately by anexing one tile at max range as a steppign stone, and so on. The definition of 'cultural borders' would have to change. Maybe max-distance to nearest city instead?
Click to expand...

I was half thinking of fixed borders when I tried to describe the fort/ supply lines idea. ;)

So it would have to be distance from city, fort other supply point.
 
Yeah, Fixed Border, or Cultural Ownership, wouldn't give extra movement, but a Fort would.

Cheers
 
Indeed, imagine western chinese wall forts in the gobi desert or 'cultural' extensions of territory like the german reich with buying the "Caprivi-Zipfel"
Spoiler :
On July 1, 1890, the British acquired Zanzibar and Germany acquired the territory which became known as the Caprivi Strip. Caprivi was named after German Chancellor Leo von Caprivi, who negotiated the land in an 1890 exchange with the United Kingdom. Leo von Caprivi arranged for Caprivi to be annexed to German South-West Africa in order to give Germany access to the Zambezi River as part of the Heligoland-Zanzibar Treaty. The German motivation behind the swap was to acquire a strip of land linking German South-West Africa with the Zambezi River, providing easy access to Tanganyika (Tanzania) and an outlet to the Indian Ocean. Unfortunately for the Germans, the British colonisation of Rhodesia (Zimbabwe and Zambia) stopped them well upstream of Victoria Falls, which proved a considerable barrier to navigation on the Zambezi.
 
I also agree this should be implemented, with possibly an attrition system set in place for going too far away from your borders. It would make things like circumnavigation a la Magellan possible, if rather harrowing.
 
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