Been working on rebalancing the whole game, heres my ideas so far

I like the current version of the mod which seems to be working great, so I've uploaded it here if anyone would like to try it out:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21847937/CivIVRebalanced.7z

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Feel free to let me know what you think of all this that I'm testing out so far. These are all just my current ideas I'm testing out and some will likely change before I finalize the mod. Some of them seem a bit too powerful, I'm trying to equalize all the UUs / UBs / Wonders to make everything worth wanting for certain playstyles.


Unit changes:


Ballista Elephant - 1-2 first strikes and Immunity to First Strikes added
Camel Archer - 2 first strikes added, Str reduced to 9, cost reduced to 75
Cataphract - Immunity to first strikes added
Gallic Warrior + Swordsman - STR increased to 7
Preatorian - Cost reduced to 40
Jaguar - Str increased to 6, cost reduced to 30
Holkan / Spearman / Impi - cost reduced to 30
Hwacha - Str increased to 6, melee bonus reduced to 25%, +10% city attack added.
Landsnecht - Str increased to 8, melee and mounted bonuses reduced to 50%
Longbowman - cost reduced to 40
Navy Seal - Str increased to 25, cost reduced to 150
Numidian Cavalry - Str increased to 6, melee bonus reduced to 25%
Panzer - Str increased to 30, cost increased to 200.
Quecha - cost increased to 25
Redcoat - Str increased to 15, Cost reduced to 100
Vulture - Melee bonus increased to 35%


I forgot about this one I made before uploading the mod:

Cossack - 16 str, cost reduced to 100. <<< This is overbuffed and the cost was reverted to 120 already, but the uploaded mod still has the 100 cost.


Specialist Changes:


Added a new Specialist type called Farmer that produces 3 food and 1 great merchant point
Aritist - +4 culture, +1 commerce
Engineer - +3 hammers
Merchant - +4 gold
Scientist - +4 beakers
Spy - +4 EP, +1 commerce
Priest - +1 hammer, +2 commerce
Great Artist - +12 culture, +3 commerce (Great people bonuses if settled)
Great Engineer - +6 hammers, +3 commerce
Great Merchant - +9 gold, +1 food
Great Scientist - +9 beakers, +1 production
Great Spy - +12 EP, +3 Commerce
Great Prophet - +2 hammers, +6 commerce


Trait building bonus changes:


Industrious - Double production speed of Forge and Factory
Organised - Lighthouse, Courthouse, Recycling Centre
Protective - Walls, Castle, Security Bureau, Intelligence Agency, Great Wall, Chichen Itza, Pentagon, Kremlin.
Hammurabi changed to Pro / Org.


Building changes:


Apothecary / Grocer - Cost reduced to 120, Merchant slots removed. 1 Farmer slot added to each.
Aqueduct / Hammam / Baray - 1 farmer slot added to each, Baray health bonus increased to +3.
Assembly Plant - 1 free engineer, 3 engineer slots
Bank + Stock Exchange, 2 merchant slots added to each. Stock Exchange bonus increased to +75% gold.
Castle + Citadel now obsolete with Corporation
Dun - +1 gold and +1 culture added
Feitora - +1 trade route added, gold bonus from water tiles increased to +2
Market - +2 gold added. Forum - +50% GPP, +1% global GPP, cost reduced cost to 120 and no additional gold bonus.
Garden - 1 farmer slot added
Supermarket - 2 farmer slots added. Mall - Gold bonus increased to 25%, 2 farmer slots, 1 free merchant
Mausoleum - 1 free Priest added
Mint - 10% gold bonus changed to a flat +2 gold increase.
Stele - +2 Culture, +50% culture output. Totem Pole - +1 added and Archery EXP increased to 5.
Pavilion - +4 culture, +50% culture output
Research Institute - +50% beakers, 2 free scientists, cost increased to 300.
Sacrificial Alter - +1 added, cost increased to 120.
Salon - +2 culture, +25% beakers, +25% culture, 1 free scientist
Seowon - +6 culture, +40% beakers
Shale Plant - cost reduced to 100 and 1 free engineer added
Trading Post - +10% gold added
Ziggurat - 1 Priest slot added


Wonder changes:


Angkor Wat - +1 hammer, +1 commerce from priests (making them +2 hammer, +3 commerce), and adds +2 free priests (slots removed)
Chichen Itza - +4 EP added. Changed bonuses to +1 and +25% EP in all cities. 2 Spy slots added and GPP changed to produce Great Spy points. 400 hammer cost
Christo Redentor - 2 free Engineers added
Oxford University - Culture output changed to +4 beakers
Shwedagon Paya - added 3 priest slots
Collosus + Great Lighthouse - Culture output removed, +4 commerce added
Great Library - Culture output changed to +4 beakers
University of Sankore - Culture output changed to +4 beakers
Great Wall - +2 EP and 1 spy slot added
Hagia Sophia - Culture output changed to +4 hammers, 1 free engineer added, 400 cost
Hanging Gardens - added +2 health and +2 for the city its built in, +1 per city, and 2 farmer slots, 400 cost
Kremlin - added +8 EPs and 2 free spy specialists.
Oracle - GPP changed to produce Great Scientists instead of Great Prophets.
Pentagon - +8 EPs added
Pyramids - 1 Engineer slot added
Temple of Artemis - Added +4 commerce. Added 1 priest slot, +1 trade route, and changed the free specialist to a merchant. Cost increased to 500 hammers.


Civic Changes

Serfdom - added +10% food output in all cities, and +1 hammer from farm and pasture.
Mercantalism - added +1 gold per specialist.
Representation - Extra beakers per specialist reduced to +2.


None of the above is final, all is still changeable.

I like the current version of the mod which seems to be working great, so I've uploaded it here if anyone would like to try it out:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/21847937/CivIVRebalanced.7z

Wow. That is a lot of changes.
I do like the idea about the Quecha's cost being increased.

Many people don't like the fact that after capturing an enemy city, if it contained a Granary, that building would automatically be converted into a Terrace and start producing culture.
I've seen a mod where they reduced it's culture to only +1.
I don't have a problem if it is +2. I just think, it should be a different building altogether.
The Granary is too important of a building to make it a UB.

Maybe, you can add the needed upgrade for the Recon units.
Scout-> Explorer->Plainsmen->Jeep

I saw a Hummer added to one Mod, instead of the Jeep.

I'm not sure why "Christo Redentor" has "3 free Great Engineers added".
That wonder duplicates the Spiritual trait. I would think Priests or Great Prophets would be the more appropiate specialist to be added.

I like the Farmer slot concept.
It does get annoying to have 2 pop cities that can't grow. Settling a GM for the +1 food ends up feeling like a waste for those smaller cities.
I wouldn't make too many available too early though, or they could get abused in whipping units for early conquest games. Maybe, a quantity near the current Great Engineer number.
Maybe, A Commercial Farm upgrade for +1 food & +1 gold on that tile.
Somewhere around Biology we should have such an upgrade available.
We have Hydroponic Farms today that can be grown completely underground with No access to sunlight, just electric lights and water. That could be a building or an improvement for mountain tiles.
Anyway, I thought I'd brainstorm out a few ideas, if it helped.
Good Luck.

Whoops, that was a typo on the Christo Redentor, I meant regular Engineers sorry.

That was one of the 'a little too powerful' ideas, I picked engineers because the wonder produces GE points, but you are right that priests would make more sense, but then its just another Angkor Wat ... so maybe 2 normal Engineers would be ok.

The farmer slots are very limited, they are available as:

1 on Granary
1 on Aqueduct
1 on Grocer
1 on Supermarket

Plus 1 extra slot for certain UBs that replace these buildings, and 1 slot on the Garden, so the maximum of them is 4, or 5 with UBs. Serfdom adds unlimited farmers, but this is too strong, I originally wanted serfdom to give +1 food per farmer specialist, but I only seem to be able to apply global changes to every specialist via policies.

Ok I changed Serfdom to +10% food to all cities, which I dont really think makes it as valid as Slavery and Caste System. Unlimited farmer specialists is just a huge no no, as is anymore than 2 of them prior to an Aqueduct + Grocer.

Hmmm, I just realized that after creating the new specialist type, the + / - buttons for the Spy specialists dont work anymore as theres an extra specialist type on the list.

Does anyone know how to fix this?

From play testing the changes, I found that 3 farmer slots from UBs by Mathematics was far too powerful as Inca and Khmer, as was the Temple of Artemis, so these will be toned down.

The UB replacements for aqueduct and grocer will be changed to a single farmer slot only, the granary and terrace will have it removed, and the supermarket / mall will get 2 slots (so 4 maximum possible with Aqueduct, Grocer + Supermarket). The Garden will keep its extra farmer slot giving Babylon an extra farmer specialist, which should be ok as it requires an extra building to be built and shouldnt be as broken as having 3 of the specialists so early with a granary + aqueduct UB was, and I'll reduce the Temple of Artemis to +4 commerce and no extra trade routes.

I dont agree with removing / reducing the Terraces culture bonus, I think that the Monument replacement UBs and the Dun have been bought up to the same level for the Ancient era UBs, and all these are very cheap to build. Im going to remove the silly +5% gold boost I put on the Obelisk, the priest buff makes it top tier now (+2 hammers and +4 commerce from both priest slots, but this is still weaker than a single gold mine and requires 2 citizens to be used. This would have also been crazy OP if I left a farmer slot on the Granary - stick a city anywhere, build an Obelisk and Granary, run a farmer and 2 priest lol. I completely didnt notice that at first).

bhavv said:

Hmmm, I just realized that after creating the new specialist type, the + / - buttons for the Spy specialists dont work anymore as theres an extra specialist type on the list.

Does anyone know how to fix this?

Click to expand...

The specialist stacker by johny smith fixes this problem.

I've been toying with some similar notions. I haven't yet implemented most of them.

My improved version of Serfdom adds +1 to Farms and +1 to Pastures and Plantations. I think the PIG mod, like yourself, adds +1 to farms but I'm leary of anything that makes Financial more powerful.

To nerf the Inca, I was thinking of changing the Terrace to give +1 on hill tiles instead of the bonus. And turning the Quechua into a resourceless Swordsman replacement similar to the Aztec Jaguar but maybe starting with Cover.

Protective obviously needs a buff, but really only for human players. Arguably it's overpowered (and annoying) in the hands of the AI. My idea was to reduce the cost of passive espionage missions, something that's not particularly useful to the AI but clearly of benefit to human players. I don't know how to do that without DLL changes, however.

I'll try to digest some of your other proposals, more later.

I've given Protective half cost security bureaus, intelligence agencies, and also half cost Great Wall and the improved Chichen Itza.

I tested it out with Gilgamesh, with the Great Wall, early Zigs and Chichen Itza popped, Pro is no longer underpowered

I still want to add +25% EPs per city to Protective because the wonders only work for the Civ that builds them. The idea for the Terrace to give +1 food on hills seems a lot more fitting for the UB, but I'm not sure how to improve individual tile yields like that in the XML, I dont see anything that allows it.

Yea the +1 commerce to farms from Serfdom will seem to benefit Financial too much, as it will give +3 commerce to riverside farms, I think I will change it you your suggestion instead.

bhavv said:

The idea for the Terrace to give +1 food on hills seems a lot more fitting for the UB, but I'm not sure how to improve individual tile yields like that in the XML, I dont see anything that allows it.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure it exists either. But I thought perhaps it might be implemented in analogous fashion to the way Levees/Dikes work with riverside/water tiles.

The XML has seaplot and riverplot changes available for stuff like the dike and feitora, as well as tile improvement changes, but nothing for individual land tiles. Just like I originally wanted Serfdom to buff my new farmer specialists only, I cant do that or improve hill tile yields.

I wanted to originally give serfdom +2 farmer slots per city, and +1 food from the farmer specialist, but couldnt do that. I also thought about +1 food per specialist which is too powerful, but you cant improve specialist yields at all. I also tried adding in lines for individual specialist commerces to give farmers +3 gold under Serfdom, but it didnt like that either and did something silly like +21999 gold per specialist instead :x

Serfdom buffing farmers would make so much sense historically, but it wont let me do it. +1 production from farms however is a great addition to do that, as well as +10% food per city.

The original +16 Culture / EP changes to the Great Spy and Great Artist turned out to hinder opening with the Great Wall and a Great Spy as it didnt provide any economic boost, so I changed them back to +12 culture / EP, but changed their extra bonus to +3 commerce, this way they can both also boost BPT or GPT a little based on the science slider. The Great Wall with its added spy slot is a guaranteed early Great Spy for an Espionage opening, but I believe I added a too many slots to the Chichen Itza, 1 slot on the GW, 2 slots on the Itza, and then 2 free spy specialists with the Kremlin will provide a very strong espionage tactic, I'll add double production with Protective to the Kremlin and Pentagon as well.

Protective is turning to be a pretty strong trait here

Is there anyone industrious and protective? Wouldn't it make them slightly OP when it comes to building these wonders?

How about the dog soldiers? Ppl rarely play that uu, and always seem to go crossbow rush with sitting bull. Anything to make them stand out? Lol maybe 1 range visibility as dogs can smell far away? Hmmm never read the civpedia for the history of it.

Revent said:

Protective is turning to be a pretty strong trait here

Is there anyone industrious and protective? Wouldn't it make them slightly OP when it comes to building these wonders?

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Yea that would be Qin. I havnt tested it yet with him, I might actually change Industrious altogether, and Pro is going to be toned down a touch - Intelligence Agency and Kremlin bonus removed.

I cant be bothered making any more changes yet though, I really like how everything is currently working.

If anyone else wants to test any of it out for me, please do and post your feedback.

Talking about overpowered, my initial ideas for Farmer specialists was +4 each, and unlimited under Serfdom ... trust me after trying that out NOTHING else can possibly be overpowered in comparison

A few more comments...

bhavv said:

Gallic Warrior + Swordsman - STR increased to 7
Preatorian - Cost reduced to 40

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Praetorians are essentially a cheaper Maceman that's available a couple eras earlier, and this change only makes that more imbalanced. Reducing their cost only makes sense to me if you're also reducing their strength to 7, which basically turns them into a generic Swordsman if you're upping the strength of that unit as well. What about a Praetorian like: STR 7, Cost 40, and starts with some promotion or a bonus against contemporary units? Drill 1 might make historical sense in light of the vaunted discipline of the Roman legions, though I don't know how that would be for gameplay.

Landsnecht - Str increased to 8, melee and mounted bonuses reduced to 50%

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I like this idea, this unit really needs a buff.

Longbowman - cost reduced to 40

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Do Longbows need any balancing at all? They're already the best city defenders for a good chunk of the game, and we don't need to make PRO any stronger for the AI.

Castle + Citadel now obsolete with Corporation

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I think most people would like to see the useful life of Castles extended. However, making them go obsolete later doesn't change the fact that they lose their defensive significance at Gunpowder. I thought, therefore, that one could make them available earlier instead, say with Monarchy+Construction, and then let them go obsolete at Economics as usual.

Forum - +50% GPP, +1% global GPP, cost reduced cost to 120 and no additional gold bonus.

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Adding the global GPP bonus to the Forum is a great idea, it gives one an incentive to build more than one.

Sacrificial Alter - +2 added, cost increased to 120.

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I guess this is OK since you've traded off the bonus for a higher price. But I think it's already a first-rate UB and doesn't need any changes.

Wonder changes:

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Your list leaves out the most useless wonder in the game, the Space Elevator. I'd love to find some way of reworking that one so it presented an interesting choice for someone gunning for the SRV.

Mercantalism - added +1 gold per specialist.

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Good idea.

What about technologies? I've always hated how Scientific Method basically cratered your research. Maybe in addition to making Monasteries obsolete it should increase the beaker bonus for Libraries and Universities.

Will try to give your mod a test drive this weekend.

Yea I've already reverted the sac alter, it was a silly change. Or actually I reduced the bonus to +1 and kept the increased cost on it. The Sac alter is great, but I felt that the Aztecs still needed a slight improvement.

Preats were reduced to 40 cost because Swords and Gallics now essentially have 7 base and +10% vs cities, so thats only a small bit worse than a Preat. The preat was changed to the same cost so its still better.

I cheapened Longbows due to so many of the other Classical units being buffed, I thought this would be needed as a counter balance.

What about technologies? I've always hated how Scientific Method basically cratered your research. Maybe in addition to making Monasteries obsolete it should increase the beaker bonus for Libraries and Universities.

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Maybe, but that goes beyond simple XML modifications. I still want to add someones Thailand mod to this which has a +35% :beakers: Library UB, and a 9 strength Elephant UU, but I couldnt get it to merge. And I want a second leader for Babylon (Nebuchadnezzar) so I can revert Hammurabi back to Agg / Org, and add a new Pro / Org leader (It makes most sense giving Pro / Org to Babylon for me).

I like the Redcoat and Cossack changes, they were overnerfed in Warlords. Even with your changes, War Chariots or Praetorians are still better. Firaxis constantly underestimates the power of early UU's.

Nice ideas, but i think it's panzer very powerful with 30 str. +50 vs. armored units its 45 str, modern armor have 40 str without promotions panzer are very powerful.
If modern armor have promotions combat 1, 2, 3 and 4 and panzer have that same promotions panzer have 57str, modern armor have 56str, panzer is again stronger.

TMIT has often made a point with which I agree, that late-era UU/UB bonuses need to be much greater to compensate for their late arrival. I have no problem with giving the Panzer a very significant buff - if Germany survives into the late industrial era with the game undecided it should be able to have a comparable effect on that era's gameplay to Quechuas in the ancient era.

Conversely, I'm much less on board with cheap Praetorians because they are already close to overpowered to begin with.