Horse units

T

The Fool King

Chieftain
Joined
Feb 26, 2007
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If I'm not entirely wrong, one can only build horse units in a city that has a horse (and thus a horse trainer) in its vicinity or the national horse trainer building.

If that's working as intended, isn't it hobbling both the AI and my ability a bit much in what amounts to a whole troop category?

Feels wrong to me somehow.
 
There are 4 methods to getting horse units ...

1. Horse Farm (Req Horse in City Vicinity)
2. Herd - Horse (Req a Subdued Horse)
3. National Horse Breeder (Own a Horse Resource in some fashion, even by trade)
4. Tengriism Horse Trainer (Own a Horse resource and have Tengriism religion)

Thus if you want lots of horses you should either hunt for them or get Tengriism. Note that 1, 2 and 3 are also true for Camels and Elephants. Horses are special in that they have a religion that can help enable horses in more cities.

However all this info is in the civpeida when you select the individual buildings, such as the Horse Trainer.
 
Yes, I purposely omitted (2) because it's basically the same as (1). Having Tengriism as a religion is quite a specific prerequisite, especially with this many religions in game.

My point is this: in combat mechanics that work according to a rock/paper/scissors mechanic (simplified of course) it seems a strange choice to limit the production of one unit class (and not the others).
 
The Fool King said:
Yes, I purposely omitted (2) because it's basically the same as (1). Having Tengriism as a religion is quite a specific prerequisite, especially with this many religions in game.

My point is this: in combat mechanics that work according to a rock/paper/scissors mechanic (simplified of course) it seems a strange choice to limit the production of one unit class (and not the others).
Click to expand...

I don't think horses are crucial to the gameplay, same goes for nukes or other units that require special resources. And if you want to use a cavalry heavy tactic without having any native horse resources, you can always take Tengriism. Religions in C2C are not as equal as in vanilla civ4. They give very specific bonuses and have unique buildings/wonders to them that you only get when you have them as state religion and thus are used to further specialize your civilization and you should choose them accordingly if you want to get the most out of your civ. Tengriism even gives free promotions for mounted units, another reason to choose that religion if you go heavy for cavalry.
 
But don't pass up the chance to acquire the other "Mounted" units either. Even subduing a bear, rhino, giraffe, zebra, or bison can also get you mounts, besides camel, elephant, and horse.

JosEPh
 
Yes, my last game Ragnar sent dozens of the early rhino's at me. I would have been crushed if not for the one use limitation on the early rhino unit. Win or lose, he lost his unit, so I was able to fall back, fort up, and survive the onslaught until his main aggressive force was eliminated.
I struck back with bears, and kicked his ass.

Another note, I generally focus the production of my cities. When I get a horse in a city, I try to give it good production and as many exp boosting buildings as I can so it can pump out loads of horses to serve the entire empire. Or bears, or elephants, or whatever. I have another city to crank out the archers, another for melee, and another for ships. The non military cities focus more and gold and research production.
 
KingArthur666 said:
Yes, my last game Ragnar sent dozens of the early rhino's at me. I would have been crushed if not for the one use limitation on the early rhino unit. Win or lose, he lost his unit, so I was able to fall back, fort up, and survive the onslaught until his main aggressive force was eliminated.
I struck back with bears, and kicked his ass.

Another note, I generally focus the production of my cities. When I get a horse in a city, I try to give it good production and as many exp boosting buildings as I can so it can pump out loads of horses to serve the entire empire. Or bears, or elephants, or whatever. I have another city to crank out the archers, another for melee, and another for ships. The non military cities focus more and gold and research production.
Click to expand...

Early animal rider units have a one use restriction? Hmmmm. Does the AI cope with this? I rather suspect it might have an unfortunate tendency to build up an army of one use units and then suffer when it uses them!
 
As far as I know it's just the first rhino unit. I never build them because of this, the cost does not seem reasonable. The AI certainly went wild with them, had it spent those resources on axemen I might have been screwed.
 
Koshling said:
Early animal rider units have a one use restriction? Hmmmm. Does the AI cope with this? I rather suspect it might have an unfortunate tendency to build up an army of one use units and then suffer when it uses them!
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct in this aspect, in my last game i am playing the only reason the AI is using horse units it to attack FAST and open units because of their moving advantage and even invading a city just to bring down some units health, then "try" bring in a bigger group , BUT thats where it fails, for some reason, the AI stops coming, i just dont know why???
 
I am confused about this "one use limit"? I built bear riders once and I was able to attack once per turn, but for multiple turns with each bear rider unit. I think on SVN ver 2677.
 
It only applies to the first rhino unit. It's like a promoted slave, you attack once and win or lose the unit dies.
 
Hmm, I haven't seen the option to build a bear rider yet (even though I still have some bears in reserve). My elephant (and now also mammoth) riders sure are fun - I certainly build more pikemen against the AI.

I just sometimes wish the AI could and would use more fast pillaging units against me. I certainly have my horse city cranking out 15xp horse units every turn to use them against them. The American AI in this current game seems to prefer building mammoth over horse units having access to both.
 
The Fool King said:
Hmm, I haven't seen the option to build a bear rider yet (even though I still have some bears in reserve). My elephant (and now also mammoth) riders sure are fun - I certainly build more pikemen against the AI.

I just sometimes wish the AI could and would use more fast pillaging units against me. I certainly have my horse city cranking out 15xp horse units every turn to use them against them. The American AI in this current game seems to prefer building mammoth over horse units having access to both.
Click to expand...

Are you using the normal v23 or the SVN version, it sounds like the regular v23 version, because in the SVN version Hydro spiced up the Bandits Hideout and the AI are finally cranking out Thiefs/Rogue/Bandit Horses and Footpads, that do just that, plus they reek havoc on your worker alot.
 
Currently, aside from mountain ranges and the occasional foresty patch, this one game I have going is essentially a horseman's wet dream... flat land as far as the eye can see.
I didn't quite realize it until later and I already had captured a few horeses... but dear god the game is going to rely on fast moving units because the area is by and large flat.

(With a few lakes and rivers dotting the landscape.)
 
Acularius said:
Currently, aside from mountain ranges and the occasional foresty patch, this one game I have going is essentially a horseman's wet dream... flat land as far as the eye can see.
I didn't quite realize it until later and I already had captured a few horeses... but dear god the game is going to rely on fast moving units because the area is by and large flat.

(With a few lakes and rivers dotting the landscape.)
Click to expand...

Not on the maps I play on. The maps I have seen all have plenty of forests and Jungles, with good Mountain ranges interspersed.

What Mapscript are you using?
 
ls612 said:
Not on the maps I play on. The maps I have seen all have plenty of forests and Jungles, with good Mountain ranges interspersed.

What Mapscript are you using?
Click to expand...

Can't remember the exact details (on a computer on work), but I remember one of the options was 'Actual Earth' and I also choose 'No Ice' (which, by the way, also meant, 'No deserts' as well apparently.)

The mountain ranges were pretty good... granted, the Ural mountains (Neeto Mountain Range, personalized map option), and the 'Himalayas' were lengthened...can't remembers its name.

There is a healthy amount of jungle in what amounts to be India and Africa, and there is a fair amount of forests in the rest of the map, however, there is quite a bit more open flat terrain for the horses to terrorize and I'd imagine a fair amount of those forests will become farmlands anyhow.

Edit: At home,
Tectonics, Temperate, Medium Sea Level.
 
Koshling said:
Early animal rider units have a one use restriction? Hmmmm. Does the AI cope with this? I rather suspect it might have an unfortunate tendency to build up an army of one use units and then suffer when it uses them!
Click to expand...

I did note at the time I made them that they were like the upgraded slave units and "we" would need to do some AI for them. I had hoped to find some python AI code but did not. Slaves themselves, the AI does not understand well. Often they will just leave them fortified in a city and not even upgrade them when an army comes knocking. They could make the differeance. :)
 
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