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Old Jul 02, 2012, 11:08 AM   #1
Sadato
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Deity OCC Science Victory - G&K Strategy and Tips

As I commented in other threads I've achieved quite success playing OCC science so I'll share my experience and learnings about how to do it.
All this refers to Deity Pangea Standard Gameplay (8 Civs).


CIVS TO PLAY

- Babylon and Korea have a huge advantage over the others about the turn you can expect to win. While I expect to win with the others around T250. With those two you can do it T230.
- The best Civ hands down to OCC science are the Incas. Pachacu's Mountain bias allows turn 0-1 city founding and luxuries in place of your city radius (with other civs if you move your settler to found near a Mountain you may find yourself with 0-1 luxuries). In addition, terrace farms are great and defending with hill movement and free roads around your city is godly.
- Other Civs I find useful to do it are: Mayans (easy religion founding, some added beakers at the start and fast GS and GE), Ethiopia (easy religion founding, strenght buff on your troops), Arabia (money from Bazaar) Germany (with Lanquenettes spam you can actually win wars without changing your production or tech path), Egypt (you will enjoy a faster build of ToA, Pisa, the NC and the other National Wonders) and USA (buying cheap tiles is really helpful), Sweden (you will get many friendships so a good bonus to getting GS).


CITY PLACEMENT TIPS

- Move your settler as needed even if you found your city in turn 4.
- City placement priorities: 1) Next to a Mountain 2) River near 3) Food tiles present 4) Hills present. I cannot stress how important is having a Mountain. Having an observatory will speed up your Research Speed a lot as it affects science output, RAs output and burned GS output. A River will give you a lot of food with Civil Service, a lot of gold and a water mill and gardens if you found in a river tile.
- I don't suggest rerolling until having a perfect start, in fact with a normal starting location you will be ok, but don't be afraid to reroll if you have a horrible starting location (tundra, desert, etc). In OCC play all depends on your city tiles so it's up to you if you want to spend 10 hours with a low food low production single city.
- You need at least two "2 food" tiles, being grassland, jungle or floodplains to grow your city. If you are in an area of "all 0-1 food" tiles, move your settler.


TECHPATH:

Pottery, Writing, Mining, Calendar, Philosophy, Archery (buy some archers), AH, Wheel, Drama & Poetry (Free Amphitheatre), Masonry, Construction (upgrade your archers), --> Public Administration --> Theology, Education (Sign RAs) --> Compass. Bulb Astronomy with Oxford (So you can open Rationalism and build the Observatory) -> IW, Chivalry, Acoustics, Banking, Architecture -> Schools -> Labs -> Apollo -> Hubble.

POLICIES

- Tradition, Legalism, Elite, Monarchy if I need the happiness because I'm growing crazy, otherwise Aristocracy, complete Tradition.
- Rationalism left side up to Scientific Revolution.
- If my culture advance is good enough (I got Oracle, Sixtine Chapel, many Golden Ages or was able to have artist for long time), then I open Order and pick Planned Economy.
- Complete Rationalism. If you feel you'll be late to complete it on time, buy/build a Museum and a Radio Tower, fill your artist slots and do your best to get a Golden Age.


BUILD ORDER:

Scout (If you pop a Culture Ruin Monument first so you don't lose the free amphitheatre from legalism), Monument, Granary, Library, Warrior/Third worker, National College, Water mill, Wall, Stable/Stoneworks, National Epic, Pikemen, Market, Garden, University, Oxford, Observatory, National Treasury. Later on priorize: Science builing > Production building > Culture building > Money building > Barracks line > Units.


FIRST TURNS

- Prioritize grow. You really only need to build a Scout, a Monument, a Granary and a Library before NC and you have a lot of turn to do it, so you can work farms and grow like crazy while building them.
- Once you have 200 gold and at least 5pgt get a 112 gold per 5gpt loan and buy a worker to start improving farms.
- Around T20+ steal a CS worker. With those 2 workers you'll be fine the whole game. If you have many luxuries buy a third one.
- If you managed to steal a barbarian worker or had money to buy your 2ond one, avoid stealing the CS worker. Some AIs could be mad at you for that and think you are dangerous warmonger for quite a long time.
- Always sell all your luxuries for 240 and your strategics for 45 and send your workers instantly to get them once you have the proper tech, you need to get a lot of money fast to buy/upgrade your archers and to sign RAs when Education comes. Buy/Produce at least 3 archers with your money, later add 2/3 more.
- Give embassies to everyone for 25 gold or even less if they are mad at you. This will help you get friends in the future. Save asking for embassies to Education or if any useful CS asks you to find someone's lands.
- Later, if you are in desperate need of money, you can sell borders, but never do it to your neighbours. Use it as a last resort because sometimes you will receive unwelcome visits.
- Watch for missions from Military and Maritime CS, go kill some barbs but don't leave your workers unprotected.


ABOUT WARS

- If you have a neighbour mad at you, sell him your lux and strategics for 209 the lux and 39 each strategic. If they offer less, accept because they are willing to attack you soon and you will be able to sell them again for free money once they do.
- If you are attacked don't panic even if you see 4 hun rams approaching. With 3 archers and a warrior you will be able to survive all T30/40 attacks. Just focus fire killing units and after 5-10 turns AIs will offer you peace asking for your gold. Spend your money, buy another archer, buy tiles or give your money to another AI for a GPT loan and sign peace.
- If you fell strong enough and you think the war is going ok, don't sign that kind of peace, instead continue the war killing units and eventually the AI will think he had enough and will retreat, persue him killing as much as you can and approach his city with all your units without receiving hits from the city. After some turns the AI will offer you a white peace.
- Later try to have 2 or 3 pikemen and 4 or 5 bowmen. With those troops you will be ok against all form of attacks until muskets appear and by this time you should have researched industrialization and have machineguns.
- In the late game, disband your pikemen (unleast you have horses, lancers are acceptable) and try to have 5-6 machineguns.
- If you have the time and enough production (I never do), build barracks, heroic epic and armory to have 2 promotions and +15% strenght units.
- Always plant your GG, build citadels 2 tiles away from your city in a strategic position or creating a chokepoint with a Mountain or a river, it doesn't matter losing a farm or whatever, citadels are huge and will help you keep your city safe.
- If you have spare money you can pay Civs to war each other, but I don't find it useful at all. At OCC your city is very strong and almost impossible to be conquered, and you have a narrow spot to defend so you can do well with few units so you don't have to be afraid of being attacked. I prefer to spend money on my units because sometimes you pay money to someone and they end signing peace few turns later or they just do a dull war where they don't harm each other. Once I paid attila to attack my neighbour Elizabeth because she founded a city next to my frontiers, a few turns later 5 rams and some horse archers appeared, razed the city and next turn the hun army paid me a visit conquering my town, so be careful who you invite to visit your neighborhood xD


TILES TO WORK

- About the tiles to work: food, food and food. Aim to be size 7-8 to build your NC and to size 14+ to buid your University. You should switch the tiles to production ones everytime you are building a vital building but otherwise keep growing. You should aim to have a size 25-30 city in the late game.
- You should always lock the tiles you work (you only have one city, it is not that many micromanagement) and set production focus so you get +2 or +3 free (mined hill) production everytime you grow.
- Don't be afraid to buy tiles, specially luxury and hill ones.
- Don't bother puting citizens in money tiles (unless you don't have a river), you will get all the money you need selling luxuries and iron/horses plus market+national treasury.
- Farm riverside hills as Chemistry comes extremely late in our techpath except if you have few production tiles.


ToA ALTERNATIVE OPENING

- In all my last games I start with Temple of Artemis completing it around T35-38, With the proper opening It is not as risky as other wonders. I start with Archery and Mining, building Scout, Monument then ToA. I grow to size 3 then stop growing and work the hills. I pick Tradition -> Legalism (If you get a culture ruin before monument build monument before scout) -> Landed Elite (the I put another citizen working a hill, If I don't have one in my city radius I buy the tile). When I can have 310 gold (getting a loan) I buy a worker and start chopping forests or building mines If I don't have forests.
- This start slows Education a bit but ToA gives huge amounts of food at the last part of the game when you need to fill many specialist slots and helps a lot in your overall growth. If you build Petra as well you can't avoid popping a GE before a GS which slows your first GS many turns but those 2 wonders together are game breaking so It pays off and you can get a GS with Pisa and use your GE with PT.
- You could think that If I like ToA I should love the Aztecs that have a UB way better but the fact is that playing OCC you'll have to kill some barbs and later a huge number of units to convince AIs to sign peace with you, so the Aztecs UA makes almost impossible to avoid getting Policies before Renaissance which can lead to a complete disaster later trying to get Scientific Revolution and Rationalism completion in an acceptable time.
- After Mining I go for AH to see if I have horses to help building the ToA then Writing to build the Library once I complete the ToA. After that, Wheel, Calendar and Philosophy. After ToA I focus growth while build library, granary, water mill then archers (the 15% bonus from ToA is great) until I can start the NC (not even the shrine if you ignore religion).

CITY STATES
- I mostly ignore CS. Never throw money on them except for founding a religion in case you want one and you are rich.
- Maritime and Military CS are nice to have as allies if you can get them for free but avoid stealing another Civs ally, specially of Greece or Siam or they will be pissed off big time.
- If you somehow ally a Cultural CS, be really careful because they can ruin your policy timing with Rationalism opening. If they are going to mess it I do my best to piss them off so they stop being my friends. If you didn't stole a CS worker and they are unprotected, you can declare war on them then sign peace to put an end to the problem.


RELIGION

- Unless you are Ethiopia, Celts or Maya, you don't need religion and SH is a waste, period. SH is hard to get, at deity it doesn't assure you found one (around turn 75 all religions are founded) and slows your growth. I find much better to open in a full grow mode focusing on improving farms and growing and only focusing production to build NC.
- Don't even bother building a shrine, sometimes you won't be able to found not even a pantheon. And in case you have it, it is much better to receive a full religion from someone. It gives a full set of bonuses (although maybe all useless) and the AI converter will befriend you. In case you are converted to a religion with nice bounuses, surround your city with units so you are not converted anymore.
- If you play a religious Civ (the three commented) and manage to get a religion I would choose +10 and +15% growth +15% production, +2gold per 5 followers and +20% strenght near your city. If you manage to have any powerful faith generation belief related to your tiles like desert folklore, get it so you can pop GS at good pace. Ignore spreading your religion and focus on spending your faith in GS. Just remember to completely surround your city with units so you don't lose your religion.

WONDERS

- ToA. I love it, it will help your city a lot, it is almost never built before T38 and you can get it on time if you focus your start on building it.
- Petra. If you have some desert hills, go for it. If you also have an oasis, run for your life to get it. In the proper place it is game breaking. My 222 and 223 turn wins come from Petra. If you started with ToA you have archery, AH and wheel so you are halfway, go for philosophy, then to currency complete NC and it is almost a sure catch.
- Oracle. Banned before getting into Renaissance unless you want to open Commerce for free to get a quite expensive bank. If you get it you will get Scientific Revolution way before.
- Sinistel Chapel. It will help you a lot to get scientific revolution. Depending on your city size and production, give it a try. If you have important buildings to be built your city is not big enough, skip it.
- Tower of Pisa. Old HS, always nice to have and the GE makes PT a sure catch. If you have already have a GE (due to Petra or any other GE points wonder you got), you can rush Pisa with it and get another GE for PT, if you feel you are ahead in tech, hard build it, get a GS and save your GE for PT.
- Porcelain Tower. It is vital. If someone builds Pisa while researching to Printing Press, skip it and head to Architecture. If you miss it you're in trouble.
- Hubble. 75% bonus to build spaceship parts, 2 GS and avoid changing your techpath to get the spaceship factory which is in an ugly spot in the tree, is a no brainer. It is very expensive so get a GE and rush it, otherways you will delay Apollo and the spaceship construction a lot.
- The other wonders are not worth the risk and can pop non wanted GPs.

MID GAME

- Once I have the NC I go straight to Civil Service (free Amphitheatre from legalism, buy/build 2 pikemen) then Education then Compass (I upgrade to Xbows, build stables/stoneworks, wall, market and garden, I start National Epic and I finish it or not depending on the timing of my next policy and Renaissance (that +1 culture counts), build the University, put the 2 specialists, then Oxford to Astronomy so I can open Rationalism and build the Observatory. At this point If Oracle is avaible I focus production and give a Try at it. If I see a war coming I get Construction to upgrade my archers. It's a cheap tech but it delays Education 5-6 turns so I prefer to skip it until needed.
- Plant all the GS until you get the lab.
- Later I go to Printing press to hardbuild Tower of Pisa to get an Engineer. In the meantime I upgrade to crossbows, build the workshop, the Steelworks and the National Treasury. After Pisa I build Opera Theatre and depending of my city size and producton I give a try at Sinistel Chapel (helps a lot to get scientific revolution on time) or I just focus growth.
- RAs will kick and the tech path is Printing Press -> Acoustics (Hermitage) -> Banking -> Architecture (Rush PT) -> Economy (Windmill) -> Scietific Theory (School) -> Industrialization (Upgrade to Gatlings, buy 1 coal and build the factory) -> Electricity (Buy 1 aluminium and build the Dam).
- Once I have hermitage I fill my Artist slots so I can hurry Scientific Theory (take them out If in danger of popping an Artist).
- Once I have a Factory I fill my engineer slots with care so I can time a GE with a GS to rush Hubble later. You can try to time a Great Artist with the GE aswell because that GS should be your last one.
- If you have spare cash, watch often if any AI has more than 1 lux of the one demanded by your city to have a We Love the King Day. 240 gold for +25% growth is something nice to have.


LATE GAME

- After all that I just shift click on Plastics then Satellites then Advanced Ballistics then Mobility Tactics then Nanotech and wait for the RAs to kick. You have quite many turns where you can build whatever you want until you build the Lab and Apollo. Upgrade your 5-6 gatlings to machineguns and Mechanized Infantry when able.
- Once have the lab, I burn all the following GS (I I had one near the completion of the lab I park them and wait 8 turns with the lab running then burn it).
- Once I have Hubble, Apollo and Advanced Ballistics I stop growth and focus production, buy 6 aluminium, buy a Nuclear/Solar Plant.
- If you managed to get a Great Artist with your last GS and the GE for Hubble, it is time to start your Golden Age. You can try to time a happiness Golden Age building the happiness buildings but it is difficult.
- I build the cockpit and the 3 boosters and I park them next to my city protected by machineguns, do not launch them so AIs don't know you are winning.
- With the completion of the Rationalism tree I pick Telecommunicatons and Particle Physics so I can build the Engine.
- Continue building parts while you wait for the RAs to kick to complete the lower part of the tree up to be able to build the Chryo. At this time you will get those insane 25k beakers RAs and will have to wait the 1 tech per turn limitation.
- Once you have all the parts declare war on all the AIs for fun, send the parts to your capital and launch them.


FRIENDSHIP AND SPIES

- Sign Friendship with as many AIs as you can. Wait for their offerings, you will only get them once they want so don't spend time offering Friendships. Just remember to renew them when they expire.
- I end signing 5 RAs, sometimes even more. I achive this with an active use of the spies. I send all of them to different Civs changing the Civs often so I can get attack plans to share the info and get new friends constantly. It works wonders. I don't care stealing techs because I beeline so much that normally I can only steal cheap and useless techs from the low part of the tree like gunpowder or steel and It can upset Civs that could be friends in a future.
- If you have an Spy on a friend, avoid at all costs stealing a tech. It may seem tempting to get a good Tech like Banking or Acoustics, but those are techs you can easily research with your own beakers, and you will get them with your first wave of RAs. If your friend catches you stealing we may be upset and never sign friendship with you again. Later on the game without enough friends and RAs, you might find yourself researching Nanotechnology with only one city waiting 20 turns to build the last part of the spaceship while your neighbour, Moctezume completes Manhattan Project, and I assure you it is an ugly spot to be.
- In the last part of the game, feel free to steal techs. You will be ahead in tech of the AIs so don't expect stealing Satellites, but for instance stealing Flight while teching to Plastics from someone who doesn't want to be your friend or someone with whom you just signed a RA a few turns before is great.
- I a Civ doesn't want to be your friend, send all your spies to their neighbours (or all of them to a Civ at war with them) and wait to get attacks plans to share the info with them. I've managed to make friends with mad neighbouring Civs like Attila or Monty that attacked me 2 or 3 times along the game just by pure info sharing of other Civs attack plans.


ABOUT RAs

- You should get Education around turns 100-120. Try to have saved up 1000+ gold when you discover Education and sign 4+ RAs that same turn. 30 turns later sign them all again.
- Expect the following and plan in advance: First Wave: Around T140 gets you Scientific Theory or near it. Second Wave T170 gets you somewhere between Steam and Plastics. Third Wave T200 gets you around Rocketry and Satellites. Fourth and Last Wave T230 gets you all the techs you need besides the 2 that you skipped to get with Rationalism. You should win around T250. Of course it depends on how many RAs you get and your beakers output. With a huge city of Size 30+, an Observatory and 6 RAs, you can win around T220-230.
- At any point of the game If a Civ does not have the money to sign a RA, exchange their GPT for your gold in a 1 GPT per 31 ratio so they have enough (f.e: 250) to sign a RA.


END GAME LOANS

- Once you start building the spaceship you can get a Huge loan to buy a nuclear/solar plant and upgrade your units or buy more.
- Put your citizens on all your gold tiles and fill all the merchant slots to maximize your gpt, go talk some rich AI, give all your gpt for as many cash as you can get. Once you have your money, return all your citizens to their proper spots. You will lose a lot of money per turn, but don't worry, in the following turns for sure you will resell luxuries and/or strategics so you will get enough cash to end the game.
- Another thing I do once I have all the spaceship techs researched although a bit ugly is to sell all my Science and Culture buildings so I can get bigger loans and buy/upgrade more units.
- If any AI Civ is building the spaceship, pay them or pay other Civs to war each other so you can slow them.

Feel free to comment or to ask anything.

Last edited by Sadato; Aug 17, 2012 at 05:58 PM.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 12:14 PM   #2
Febreze
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Thank you for all the work put into this post. I'll try to bring all this into a game and report back the findings.
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 05:00 PM   #3
The Pilgrim
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Unless I misunderstand something, RA's are not based on the median anymore.

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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:02 PM   #4
ShadowoftheDark
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thanks Sadato, huge fan of your OCC Culture Diety guide. I'll try this out.

I'd like to ask about the OCC Culture Diety though. I'm so out of synch with it due to the techs and moved around and such. Will you make a guide for Culture too?

Thanks1
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:12 PM   #5
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Great guide
Disagree with only a couple things, though:

a) I really do not like Oxford so early. You can steal Astronomy easily from an AI for an Observatory, and since you're OCC you'll have a strong cultural game no matter what you do - so you can get either Commerce or Patronage opener before getting into Rationalism... there's no need to rush that. I usually use Oxford to get Satellites, so I don't miss the telescope - it's HUGE. Also worth the production if you don't have a GE to rush it.

b) GAs ain't bad, no need to avoid generating them. Culture is good. Plant your artists, go for Freedom, and enjoy 16bpt off your Academies and extremely long Golden Ages . I actually finish Freedom before getting the last two policies off Rationalism, so you get your finisher techs later.

c) Persia is amazing. If you want a bit of a different feel, Siam or Greece can also work (enjoy 40+pop with all those maritime CS). Don't really understand why USA or Germany would be better suited than those...
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 10:19 PM   #6
Sadato
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Hahahaha. Pilgrim you are totally right. Big surprise about RAs . I have to review my techpatch xD
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 11:19 PM   #7
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So how would your new tech path be if RAs are not based on the median anymore?
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Old Jul 02, 2012, 11:50 PM   #8
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Hahahaha. Pilgrim you are totally right. Big surprise about RAs . I have to review my techpatch xD
I don't know if that's good news or bad news. If you can clock turn 220 OCC win thinking the RA's work not in the way they actually do, what can you get out of it if you address them properly? Sub 200? Again?
Or maybe not. If you start bulbing at 400-500 bpt, your city is probably at its max capacity anyways. So you don't lose that many beakers. The question is how much tech path optimization will speed things up.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 01:22 AM   #9
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Very impressive results. I had no idea you could send spaceship so early with only one city. Especially since you mentioned that one GS nets you only around 3000 beakers. I've played only one game G&K so far and received 5000-6000 beakers from a GS in the late game. I had five cities and a few puppets though. Still it took me 255 turns to finish the game...

I guess the new tech tree (and RA change) helps because you can start building Apollo and some space ship parts earlier now and Research Lab is actually worth beelining.

I have a few questions thou...When do you start signing RAs and how many of them do you sign per "round" later in the game? If you sign more than four how do you get the cash for it? Do you go offense when you destroy AIs attackers and get money from a peace deal?
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 04:45 AM   #10
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I find it difficult to believe that OCC science victory can work on deity (except perhaps on a small islands map). I've only ever won science victories when founding 3-4 cities.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 05:28 AM   #11
ShadowoftheDark
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Nah man Sadato is legit. I tried out his OCC Culture Diety at vanilla with all of his recommended civs and it worked. Guy plays exclusive OCC Diety games.

Also the map we're talking about in here is small 6 civs. Having a larger map would be better since more civs for trade.

Last edited by ShadowoftheDark; Jul 03, 2012 at 05:33 AM.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 06:23 AM   #12
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It may work, but it is close. I think a lot of small bits have to work together, like usually on deity. Tried it once, but was still behind on tech in turn 280 and only completed the Appolo programm, although RA's were up constantly, culture was decent (4 into rationalism). My main problem was, that I acquired too much culture early on and so I had to go into honor for 3 points before I reached rationalism.

Very good find Sadato!
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:28 PM   #13
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I was able to complete end techs with RAs solely I guess huge science production deity civs at late game provide it.

I think oxford on astronomy cuts many turns jumping on rationalism and observatory.

I'll give a try optimizing tech path to share experiences.
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 12:55 PM   #14
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During the late game...plant all GS and beeline to the Lab. Once you have the LAB and 500+ bpt, spend all your GS inmediatly so you increase your median.
Really nice strategy - thanks for posting. I will have to give this a try. One question about the above quote - do you you mean save the GS in the later game for bulbing techs after you have the lab, rather than "plant" them for academies?
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Old Jul 03, 2012, 02:33 PM   #15
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OK after re-reading I think I understand now. What was confusing me was the statement "spend all your GS immediately", which sounds like you have a bunch saved up at this point. But instead what I think you mean is to plant all GS for academies until you have 500+ beakers/turn (usually after research labs), after which you bulb all GS immediately rather than planting. Makes sense.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:30 PM   #16
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I tried this with Ethiopia on Immortal and seemed to be tracking perfectly according to your strategy, but didn't finish until T286. Russia was a runaway and had 3 parts built when I launched. Luckily she was far from me and my best trading partner all game. Two of the 8 civs were wiped out early. Not sure why it took me so long since I had labs researched by T205 and I was over 500 beakers/turn after getting the lab. I was maintaining 4 DoF and signed 3 waves of RA's with most of them (one was wiped after the first RA).

GS seemed to be giving me very little near the end, maybe 5-6 turns of research at best. It may have been better to keep planting them since I finished Freedom before doing the right side of Rationalism. I ended up with Tradition, Rationalism and Freedom all completed, and most of Patronage. I also had many CS allies and Scholasticism was giving me over 150 beakers/turn. I built a large number of wonders too (probably 15+) and had all of the best ones.

One thing really strange happened. I had 2 techs left to research - Nanotech and the one before it - and I only had one turn left on the tech I was researching when my final RA kicked in. I was thinking it would give me both final techs, but it only gave me the one tech and nothing for Nanotech. I had to research the full 10 turns of Nanotech at the end. So it was like the RA completely wiffed. I've never seen that before. I definitely had Nanotech queued up properly too. So that cost me 10 turns right there. Luckily I was over 1000 beakers/turn at the end. I had great production and parts were only 3 turns each. I was ready to build the final part right when Nanotech finished.

So the TLDR version: Strategy works great, but I don't see how I could have shaved off as many turns as you state. Low 200's seems unlikely.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 08:45 PM   #17
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I've been trying to do this build and while I could get it to work before G&K I can't manage it any more. The issue I've been having is that the AIs don't want to sign RA with me it started at 3 then slow went down to 2 then 1. No one was ever at war with me so I'm not sure how to deal with this?
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 09:01 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by stii View Post
I've been trying to do this build and while I could get it to work before G&K I can't manage it any more. The issue I've been having is that the AIs don't want to sign RA with me it started at 3 then slow went down to 2 then 1. No one was ever at war with me so I'm not sure how to deal with this?
It's tough. You have to get lucky and worm your way into a mass lovefest. In my game everyone else hated the Ottomans (who DoWed me early) and the Byzantines, so I was able to get DoF's (and RA's) with 4-5 civs for almost the whole game. The Byzantines were friendly, but I denounced them anyway just to get the others to like me even more. It also helped that I was almost totally isolated even though it was standard pangaea.
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Old Jul 04, 2012, 10:14 PM   #19
drakar8888
Chieftain
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 28
When you are going for science victory and rushing universities/schools/labs chances are you will become the tech leader at some point in the mid-game even on immortal/deity, which means most AIs(all of them) will send their spies to steal techs from your capital. What you can do is put your first spy to do counter-intelligence. He will get level 3 quickly just because there will be many chances for him to catch someone and once he gets that lvl3 he will start mass-murdering the enemy spies.

When you get a message that an enemy spy has been killed click the icon that drops on the right side of the screen. It takes you to talk with the AI in question. Tell them you will let their transgression slide this time. Then they will approach you at their turn and ask for forgiveness - forgive them again.
This diplomacy modifier is what makes a friendly AI take the extra step to wanting a declaration of friendship. I did this in an immortal game it is really effective when you want to go through the game with no war.
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Old Jul 05, 2012, 05:50 AM   #20
jeespoks
Warlord
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRover57 View Post
I tried this with Ethiopia on Immortal and seemed to be tracking perfectly according to your strategy, but didn't finish until T286. Russia was a runaway and had 3 parts built when I launched. Luckily she was far from me and my best trading partner all game. Two of the 8 civs were wiped out early. Not sure why it took me so long since I had labs researched by T205 and I was over 500 beakers/turn after getting the lab. I was maintaining 4 DoF and signed 3 waves of RA's with most of them (one was wiped after the first RA).

So the TLDR version: Strategy works great, but I don't see how I could have shaved off as many turns as you state. Low 200's seems unlikely.
I assume it will be a lot easier to get a win close to T200 with Korea because of all the science bonuses they get. Ehtiopia's +2 beakers from Steele helps at the beginning but is nothing to compared to Korea's abilities.
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