Advertisement
Civilization Fanatics' Center  

Go Back   Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION V > Civ5 - Strategy & Tips

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old Jul 09, 2012, 05:30 PM   #1
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Gods and Kings Tradition's 4 cities opening

% of success depends of difficulty level, land, luxuries and neighbors around. Tested under standard settings at emperor, immortal and deity level. Pretty robust strategy, this can be achieved as soon as you can settle 3 more cities and get at least 3 unique luxuries. 2 or 3 traders are at least needed. The goal is to get 4 cities and 3-4 workers as fast as you can. It's important because settled cities will focus on archers. You need them for composite bowmen for early defense or offense. The closest AIs will hate you and you need to be prepared. It's a good thing because you can get more cities(puppets) if you plan accordingly into warfare. Obviously, some civs are more powerful than others for this approach.

With help of Tradition, your cities will grow very fast. Fast production, gold and science will raise your civilization into a powerhouse. This strategy is focused on getting luxuries as fast as you can and use them to finance your expansion.

Part 1 : The expansion. Turn 0-60(Get 4 cities and CBs)

Policy tree order:

-Tradition opener
-Legalism
-Monarchy
-Landed Elite

Monarchy before Landed Elite because the extra happiness and gold will help you to sell more luxs and upgrade more archers.

Tech order :

AH or mining--->pottery--->2 lux techs(under capital, mining luxuries included)--->Archery--->lux tech--->construction

AH first if trapping ressources around or no mining/chopping required early. If not, start with Mining-Pottery. Some starts are more rough than others. Sometimes you get some jungle starts and you need BW to advance. If you need BW, skip AH. Pottery can be 3rd if you build a 2nd warrior before shrine.

Buy order :

-Settler
-Settler
-Worker
-Archers upgrade

Settlers before worker. More gold and production earlier from new cities is better than an early worker. The saving gold opportunity reduces settlers cost. You can rush buy a 2nd worker if you have a lot of luxuries and traders.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Now, your first worker will get out around turn 20. You need 500 to buy a settler. When first lux/horses is improved, sell it. Buy a settler as soon as you can. Loan some gold if needed. Try to sell a duplicated lux(from capital and land around) first. The idea behind this is to get that lux back around turn 55-60 when you gonna need it. Sort of rotation system, you can sell them before hitting too much unhappiness.

If you can settle your 2nd city on a luxury, do it now. Sell luxury and try to buy another settler around turn 40 after a 2nd lux improved into capital. Buy worker as soon as you can after these 2 settlers. A last settler will get out of the capital around turn 40-45. Steal a worker from a cs. Little diplo hit, but huge improvement for the game in process. Remember that these CBs can get you more cities!

2nd city : archer-archer
3rd city : archer-shrine
4th city : archer-shrine
Capital : scout-worker-shrine-warrior(3 or 4 )-settler-archer-archer

At deity it's useful to get a pantheon from the help of your first shrine(capital). But getting a religion is a lot more difficult. Skip other shrines if you feel that it will be impossible to get a religion. But an early religious ally can change your mind. Some civs are well suited about getting a religion at deity. Ethiopians, Mayans and Celts are some good candidates.

You can get 6 to 8 archers from 4 cities. I prefer shrines after 1st archer to get a chance for a religion later.

VIDEO: PART 1 Bad sound sorry


Link to video.

I made some mistakes because i played this pretty fast. I lost a stolen worker from barbs but i recuperated another one a bit late.

Part 2 : War or not to war? Turn 61 to 105(CS allies and NC, up to Metal Casting)

The following section is pretty variable. Lot of actions can modify decisions. Especially with the cs...while you are building libraries, it's a good idea to ally some of them. You will probably have a large amount of gold between the turn 70 and 90 from all these numerous deals. Quests begin to be interesting. CBs can chase barbs to gain more influence. They can also take more cities from the AI...

(Immortal level)Example of libraries build up after CBs while going for Philosophy...with a little gift :



Tech path :

construction-writing-BW-philo-IW-Metal Casting

Policy order :

Aristocracy
Oligarchy

//After libraries, i usually finish a shrine or 2 and start on granaries. I will rush buy 1 or 2 more units if needed into wars. But the most important are cs allies. These cs can help your civilization to grow at a faster rate. While finishing NC(with the help of Aristocracy) into Capital, it's time to see if there is some iron. Good for you if you get some! I can stop granaries and build some warriors if i find more than enough.

After finishing granaries and extra buildings/units, you can start building workshops. With the Tradition finisher, your cities will grow at lightning speed and build everything faster. Add a worker if you feel that you will be late for improvements. Your civilization is now well rounded to achieve any path of glory!

----------------------------------------------------------------

At Prince or below, getting gold can be a lot more difficult. Build a 2nd settler from capital and buy only one.
At Emperor or below, you can go for writing and philo before construction. Archers will be sufficient for defense(build 3-4 of them) until construction.
At immortal or below, you need a minimum of 4 CBs to ensure good protection for 1vs1.
At deity, it's better to get 6-7 CBs.

Last edited by Tabarnak; Jul 11, 2012 at 01:50 PM.
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2012, 05:53 PM   #2
northtexan95
Chieftain
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
Awesome! I know a lot of us have been waiting for a comprehensive post about your plan.
northtexan95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2012, 06:29 PM   #3
snarzberry
Emperor
 
snarzberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Zealander in Brisbane Australia
Posts: 1,237
Heh, I've been doing almost the exact same thing - right down to buying 2 settlers in a peaceful science game set up, just without the heavy attention to archers. It's been good for a sub 230 science vic for me so far, but I know I'm not totally nailing the mid and late game.

Nice work as always, really the Tradition tree now just screams out for this kind of opening. 4 cities, free aqueducts, boost growth ... etc
snarzberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2012, 06:52 PM   #4
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarzberry View Post
It's been good for a sub 230 science vic for me so far, but I know I'm not totally nailing the mid and late game.

Nice work as always, really the Tradition tree now just screams out for this kind of opening. 4 cities, free aqueducts, boost growth ... etc
If you can keep 3-4 RAers, sub 230 is a good target. This can get you a lot of puppets too(thing that i've not achieved yet for many reasons...mainly because i wanted to play most turns as possible for testings, focusing on defense).
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2012, 08:53 PM   #5
ifinnem
Keep it interesting
 
ifinnem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: West Coast
Posts: 575
I had good fun with the Aztecs taking the early 4 city tall approach to the extreme. On a lakes map you can just go insanely vertical with them so quickly, plus the UA is good for the extra culture to speed through the Tradition tree.
Finally combine that with all the religion growth bonuses and you can have some real fun.

I played a game on Emperor (normally play Immortal but wanted to get all the Wonders). Which adds another nice bit of synergy as TOA, Mids and SH all have GE points for a nice early GA.
In my sample game (1st attempt) I had cities of 13,9,8,3 by T100 and then at T150:
20,18,17,12 & new one at 6
231 per turn
ifinnem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 09, 2012, 11:26 PM   #6
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Video added.
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 08:18 AM   #7
dthompson32
Warlord
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 169
Awesome, I've been waiting for this writeup!

I'm going to try a variation on this on my current map after my current game is complete (I used a Liberty opener). It will be a bit of a challenge, since its Mayans on a Continents Plus map, no CSs until you can embark units (or take a Great Admiral, but must get Theology to do that).
dthompson32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 08:32 AM   #8
animalguy
Ermahgerd
 
animalguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 277
Im encountering some problems when using this stratagey. Playing on king i find gold is a lot harder to come by and whenever i steal a worker from a city state i get called a warmongering menace which leads to denouncements, often by my friends which just ends up resulting in a world war. Any suggestions on how to stop this.
animalguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 08:39 AM   #9
Delar
Chieftain
 
Delar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 14
Tabarnak which civilization leader do you prefer for this setup? ifinnem mentioned Aztecs worked well for this strategy.
Delar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 10:56 AM   #10
_megafone_
Warlord
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 192
If you're not planning on going offensive, Construction is a waste of time IMO - you'll fill up Oligarchy early and the AI won't ever be able to take your cities if you defend smartly (unless you start close to some overpowered Classical attacker like the Huns or whatever). In that case, should head straight to Philosophy and get your science flowing.

Otherwise, great writeup.
_megafone_ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:12 AM   #11
Civologist
Chieftain
 
Civologist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalguy View Post
Im encountering some problems when using this stratagey. Playing on king i find gold is a lot harder to come by and whenever i steal a worker from a city state i get called a warmongering menace which leads to denouncements, often by my friends which just ends up resulting in a world war. Any suggestions on how to stop this.
Playing on a lower difficulty will make this strategy harder not easier. It takes advantage of the AI's extreme gold bonuses by selling your lux/horses to the AI and giving you an early lump of gold to buy units with. If you play on King and lower you will have less gold to take from the AI.
Civologist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:22 AM   #12
smallfish
Immortal
 
smallfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Civologist View Post
Playing on a lower difficulty will make this strategy harder not easier. It takes advantage of the AI's extreme gold bonuses by selling your lux/horses to the AI and giving you an early lump of gold to buy units with. If you play on King and lower you will have less gold to take from the AI.
That... really depends. Current game and the only one who had way over 900 gold is an "OOC" Washington (who was right in front of me and thus my first victim), who had plenty of troops with Honor - both Netherlands and Iroquois are not having that much cash despite expanding past two cities.

Because I started off so close to him, Washington was naturally disinclined to trade with me his massive goldstack.

e: on lower levels you can just waltz two warriors onto an early capital, take away their workers when their warriors are away, and go farm your lands into a wonderspamming powerhouse.
smallfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 11:50 AM   #13
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delar View Post
Tabarnak which civilization leader do you prefer for this setup? ifinnem mentioned Aztecs worked well for this strategy.
Aztecs shine later with their UB and Trad. finisher i agree

All civs related to religion are very nice. The main reason is that faith doesn't scale at all. It's all cumulative! I don't need to explain more here. 4 cities recreating a stonehenge wonder? Anytime!

All other civs with good and early UBs. Egypt, Rome with his UA can also be nice.
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 01:19 PM   #14
northtexan95
Chieftain
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 15
I just watched your video and I have a few questions and comments for you ...

* I've heard something mentioned in previous threads about a "hammer trick" to get more production. Watching your video I noticed you micro managed your citizens but I didn't see anything that looked like a trick.

* Your third city was not founded on a luxary. Was this so you would have more lux's available without having to purchase tiles?

* Your capital grew to 4 and then you put everything into production and coin. Your fouth city was still at a population of 1 (if I remember correctly0 when you shifted everything to production for an archer. So when do you worry about growth? Is is after you capture your first enemy capital?

* I was glad to see the barbarians caused slowed you down as they do me. Last night my capital had three barbarian warriors around my capital as my first worked popped out. Unfortunately, my warrior and scout were several turns away scouting. Grrrr ...

* I guess you normally start off selling lux's at 240 gold? I didn't realize they would go higher than 209. Good to know.

* When selling horses you didn't ask for a price, you just basically got bids from everyone and took the highest. Is that the best way to sell strategic resources?

* Trading one coin per turn for a bulk payment before declaring war. Nice move.

Thanks again for the info and video. This is great stuff ... especially for someone like me who's only be really playing since G&K came out.
northtexan95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 01:38 PM   #15
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* I've heard something mentioned in previous threads about a "hammer trick" to get more production. Watching your video I noticed you micro managed your citizens but I didn't see anything that looked like a trick.
Original post here. Watch for vexing's comments further it's easier to understand

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* Your third city was not founded on a luxary. Was this so you would have more lux's available without having to purchase tiles?
It's not obligatory to settle on luxuries. The emplacement wasn't great to settle on for my 3rd city. You need to anticipate what the city will work around the 2nd and 3rd ring later in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* Your capital grew to 4 and then you put everything into production and coin. Your fouth city was still at a population of 1 (if I remember correctly0 when you shifted everything to production for an archer. So when do you worry about growth? Is is after you capture your first enemy capital?
Improve unique luxs as fast as you can so you can develop all cities faster. The huge delay of my 3rd worker(stolen one) put me into unhappiness for 9-10 turns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* I was glad to see the barbarians caused slowed you down as they do me. Last night my capital had three barbarian warriors around my capital as my first worked popped out. Unfortunately, my warrior and scout were several turns away scouting. Grrrr ...
Barbs...are...annoying......

You can build a 2nd warrior before a shrine in the beginning if you need some help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* I guess you normally start off selling lux's at 240 gold? I didn't realize they would go higher than 209. Good to know.
Sometimes it's better to sell a lux to the closest AI for 209 than 240 at far away one. If he DoW you, you can resell it to the richest guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* When selling horses you didn't ask for a price, you just basically got bids from everyone and took the highest. Is that the best way to sell strategic resources?
Yes...

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
* Trading one coin per turn for a bulk payment before declaring war. Nice move.
I didn't go at war. Of course you can play cheesy and take all his stack of gold with your huge gpt ratio and all luxuries/ressources before DoWing. I personnally don't use this trick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northtexan95 View Post
Thanks again for the info and video. This is great stuff ... especially for someone like me who's only be really playing since G&K came out.
Thanks

Last edited by Tabarnak; Jul 10, 2012 at 01:42 PM.
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 02:22 PM   #16
mike678
Warlord
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by animalguy View Post
whenever i steal a worker from a city state i get called a warmongering menace which leads to denouncements, often by my friends which just ends up resulting in a world war.
More then likely you stole from a city state that had protection declared from another ai. That usually angers the civs if you mess with their city states.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _megafone_ View Post
If you're not planning on going offensive, Construction is a waste of time IMO
I tried the strategy and I had a happiness issue once I had the 4 cities because of sold resources so the Colosseum was worth teching to. I didn't really need the better archers though but until you get back your traded resources you most likely will be running negative in happiness which slows your growth.
mike678 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 04:33 PM   #17
The Pilgrim
Deity
 
The Pilgrim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Virtual reality
Posts: 2,998
Every single time I need to pick SP and settle on the same turn I settle first and then... Ooops.
Nice video. And juicy map. Although I tend to agree that CB's on defense and so many of them is an overkill for this level. Take advantage of them and kill somebody.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike678 View Post
More then likely you stole from a city state that had protection declared from another ai. That usually angers the civs if you mess with their city states.
Not necessarily. In G&K there is no more 'free' DoW that let you steal a worker without consequences in vanilla. But the modifier is not permanent.
The Pilgrim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 05:10 PM   #18
pwoz
Chieftain
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 49
Just curious on your rationale for prioritising shrines. I find on immortal/deity they're kind of a waste. Let the AI's fight over spreading a religion to me and I'll focus on stuff that will actually help my game more. I'll get them eventually for great person buying and padoga, etc if I get those religions, but the culture is a bigger deal right away.
pwoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 06:18 PM   #19
Tabarnak
Awwright!
 
Tabarnak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Québec
Posts: 5,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
Just curious on your rationale for prioritising shrines. I find on immortal/deity they're kind of a waste.
Waste for deity unless you play a civ with religious bonuses or early faith acquisition like Mayas or Celts. AIs will spread their religion fast enough to get religion buildings fairly rapidly.

For immortal and below i always got a religion following this sequence. For only 4 shrines and maybe a religious cs it's easy to get a religion at immortal. Bonuses from your own religion are not negligible.

Thanks for noticing this, i will add this part.

Last edited by Tabarnak; Jul 10, 2012 at 06:26 PM.
Tabarnak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jul 10, 2012, 10:00 PM   #20
vexing
knows
 
vexing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pilgrim View Post
In G&K there is no more 'free' DoW that let you steal a worker without consequences in vanilla. But the modifier is not permanent.
this has not changed.
vexing is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Go Back Civilization Fanatics' Forums > CIVILIZATION V > Civ5 - Strategy & Tips > Tradition's 4 cities opening

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Advertisement

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This site is copyright © Civilization Fanatics' Center.
Support CFC: Amazon.com | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon CA | Amazon FR