C2C - Future - Discussion and Integration

C2C - Future - Discussion and Integration
(Updated 1-18-2013)

ONE thread to unite and bring all the ideas and discussion about the Future for C2C.

Including all plausible and realistic speculations of the Future, including futurist predictions, projections, science fiction, and trends,
for the purpose of ongoing conversations to eventually work the best ones into C2C as people want them.

This thread is to open discussion and organize all ideas about tomorrow that could be potentially used in C2C (and bring them to one place):
Eras, Discussions, Ideas, future, and Science Fiction resources, other discussions around the internet, etc.


The goal here is, not only,
- to open up the discussion to explore all thoughts about the future (from everywhere and for Everyone), but also,
- to figure out how implement them to improve C2C's Modern, Trans-Human, Galactic, Dimension, Cyberpunk, Retro-Future, other Future Eras and Beyond.
Even more importantly,
- Fitting together a shared vision to keep us together and pointed in the right direction.:

All type of ideas are to free be included, ideas from movies, books, video games, science articles, technology, tv shows, comics, websites, other discussions, forums, etc.
This thread also includes general discussion for all the modern and future eras, which could encompass alternative and future ideas.
Please submit your own, and comment/list the ones you want to highlight.

Please direct specific conversation towards these existing threads:

C2C - Transhuman Era
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=448582

C2C - Galactic Era
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435974

Science Fiction Era Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=486071
Thread to include Sci-Fi ideas from popular media, and possible have the less plausible ones in an alternate era.


"The Future" General Chat Thread (2015 AD to Beyond) - MrAzure
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459982

C2C Aliens
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=428650

C2C: Modern/Transhuman World Projects
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438790

Biotech Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443226

Cybertech Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443227

Post -Apocalypse Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455125

Retro Space/Retro Future age (Atompunk)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443151

Alternative Timelines
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=439662

C2C Space Terrain
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=453005

Civics Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454320

Crime and Punishment Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435942

New Buildings Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459628

New Heroes Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457982

Religion Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443077

Tech Tree Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459006


anything else goes here, in this thread, until it deserves/inspires it's own thread.
This way we can keep the conversations moving and working out details, while the modders prioritize and work towards getting these ideas in.
They need all the help they can get to work things out, and if we love talking about them then we owe it to ourselves to go through these threads and keep the ideas alive.

I plan on listing the ideas and discussion within, with everyone's input we can do it right. Please share you ideas here:
1. List of all C2C future Links and appropriate discussions. (listed above)
2. List of all known links about the future, and to similar discussions.

3. Realism Vs. Imagination Discussion. What to include in C2C.
4. Letting our ideas unite or divide us.
5. List of future inspirational sources.
6. Psychohistory inspired by the famous Foundation Series (books) by Issac Asimov
7. List of Video Games which could have good ideas that could be used in C2C.
8. List of Roleplaying (tabletop) games which have lot's of good ideas and content for C2C.
9. List of Books with great ideas and scenarios that could be used in C2C.
10. List of links to outside conversations (other mod, game, forums, etc.)
11. etc.
Feel free to suggest your own.

Let's not let our ideas divide us; let's stay united in our desire to push the limits of C2C, and expand it's vision to the extent of plausible realism and imagination together. We share the dream of the ultimate civilization game, and sticking with C2C is the best opportunities for all of us to work together to make that happen.

There are many threads on the future subject so I am tying them together here and organizing their existing conversations, so that ideas can be continued to be discussed in the appropriate place.

I plan on keeping this thread updated as best I can with your help (more often, yes (1/18/2013) because I love talking about the future)
Feel Free to suggest or discuss any future idea here as long as it doesn't belong in one of those threads.
Keeping this conversation going is up to you (and me This means everyone who reads this!
Feel free to participate. I need your help.

I hope this thread is used to figure out how to create a consistent vision of the future that we all can agree with. For it to be fun for everyone, they must be free to explore their future of choice. From plausible realism, to limitless imagination, I challenge each and every one of you to find a way to allow us all to be able to play all these alternate scenarios, so that the future of C2C is unwritten and open to the possibilities that the actual future holds. Only by bringing together and considering everyone's vision, and to build in varying styles of optional gameplay so that we are all free to play, will it be fun for everyone to play, create and, improve.


The very purpose of C2C is to explore 'more' great ideas, and this also creates what I think is C2C biggest potential problem, how to keep C2C fun and free to explore while pinning down it's vision. Simply put everyone has their own idea of the future and what part of it would be fun to play. Realism

I created this thread because this type of discussion is exciting, fragmented, controversial, and has the potential to divide people, so I thought we should bring the conversations together here, so that we could continue to work out solutions. This thread ties into the most important goal of C2C; To be able to explore. In my opinion it is the most important 'X' in all 4X games.
(4X games are a genre of strategy video game in which players control an empire and "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate". )
The philosophy of the game of Civilization is completely built around the freedom to do so in immersed detail. This is our chance to explore the future together, so we can play the best C2C future in our game.

Future Priorities.

Excellent general discussions.

Links to specific outside conversations, and more!

1. Realism, vs Fantasy, vs Imagination Discussion

This may be better off in it's own thread, and it has been discussed before in other threads (which I will link),
but I think it is an important discussion for both C2C, it's future, and ultimately how we should pursue the future of C2C.
This argument if heated could also be discussed in the controversy thread.

Realism - Many people only want to play realistic games. Some people only want to play history. Some people many only want to play the future.
One argument is to make starting and ending eras optional. Another is to make Fantasy, and more implausible technology into alternate eras.
I've seen many people get upset when the line of plausibility is crossed, I don't want that to be a dividing conversation for people, I want find a solution that also people to explore both sides of the line as they wish.
Note: the line doesn't always happen in the same era, aliens could be encountered in pretty much any era. Space travel, artificial intelligence, longevity technology, could all be discovered quickly (near tomorrow) or farther in the future.

Fantasy - Many people would probably like to play different degrees of what can be considered fantasy, some people think warp drive, or artificial intelligence is a fantasy, figuring out how to optionally include popular ideas like warp drives, light sabers, time-travel devices, transporters, aliens, and other fantastic ideas without alienating people would be a programming challenge with great benefits and rewards for C2C. I'm not much of a fantasy person myself, but some of these ideas are borderline and would be fun to play. Many people would argue that crossing this line should be possible. I'm not thinking that fantasy would be a high priority for C2C but drawing the line, and finding ways to explore the inclusion of it, would open up C2C to more people and gameplay possbilities.

Imagination - This line is a tough one. The question is, at what point does a technology become implausible? I kind of agree with Arthur C. Clarke's argument and famous quote " Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". The lessons of history clearly point that we are constantly wrong about what is possible and impossible. People did not believe the Sun was the center of the Universe, that the Earth was Round, That People would want a Home Computer, or that we could reach the Moon. Moore's law, and dark matter are 2 of the vacillating discussion of today. What other impossible ideas are we going to exceed? Isn't playing the future differently over time, somewhat about altering how these ideas play out? I'm very much a proponent of the idea that some of this should be alterable, selectable, optional, and, in the default game. At some point in the future most ideas should become possible. It would be more fun to vary up the major ones, and let every one play the ones they want.


That does not mean we shouldn't respect the line of realism, and the wide base of players who only want to play hard sci-fi / plausible realities. I kind of agree with both Hydromancerx/LS612's and MrAzure's apparently mutually exclusive ideas on where and how to include this.
I pose 2 other questions to discuss.

1. At what point in the future eras does improbable technology start to exist (meaning at what point can we no longer anticipate it or anticipate it's real possibility?).
Ultimately no one can accurately predict the future, but we owe it to ourselves to have a good debate (without it driving people away from C2C.) Exploring that line should be exciting for everyone, not a believer's fest of butting heads. I think it is great fun to speculate what is possible, and tackle the "What should be included in C2C?" in layers, and with lines. I think all the participators and modders of C2C do a great job of this, I just hope they can all just find basic agreement on make ongoing decisions on improving the idea on what is best to include (at this time). Compromise should just be a step for finding ways to temporarily agree, so that progress can be made. Isn't the point to make the best decision possible and then to move on, so that discussions can continue until a better solution is found? We all want C2C to be the best it can be.

2. For the timing and handling of technologies which have uncertain technology discovery dates, should we strive to make them individually optional, pick the most likely time period, make those technologies have vastly variable development times, or move them to alternate eras? Some technologies, like warp drive, and time travel, should probably be completely optional and could have a lot of related or inspired technology built around it in groups. Handling this concept correct could lead to all sorts of interesting gameplay for C2C. Imagine if you discovered spaceflight in a different era? Or played a C2C where spaceflight was never discovered? Alternate history should probably not be always confined to alternate eras. Sometimes one technology discovery in the future(or past) could change everything (please find a way to include this idea in C2C). Also a dark age alternate history era could occur at any time. The post-apocalyptic age should be possible(and optional) at any time really as well, it always is a possibility for society to collapse. Maybe flexible technology discovery should be implemented.

Different genres like steampunk, cyberpunk, western, mobster, swashbuckling, living with dinosaurs, prehistoric beasts living to modern times, should be explored. Should we really rule out these genres if people want to see them? Some like the post-apocalyptic could be triggered by a single event (peak oil, zombie virus, nuclear,etc.), or built off a single technology - warp drive opens up intersteller space. Fire opens up sandelpunk, steam -steampunk. Neuro-implants - cybertech, computers -modern age. Don't tell me that Charles Babbages Difference Engine couldn't have started the modern age early. Anyone else feel like playing that? I hope you all get the idea.

So where do we draw the lines people? Should C2C find a way to cross it and not cross it at the same time?

2. Letting our ideas divide us discussion.

I liked what you said about having more techs in the alternate eras. I was thinking that maybe after you made an alternate era culture.m( clock punk, bio punk, steam punk etc) you would open up a new line of techs that would lead you further into that alternate reality where at a certain point it would come back to our reality. Just an idea

3. List of Inspirational sources for ideas:
starting examples (to be fleshed out and listed )

1. Galactic Age - Foundation Series (books) by Issac Asimov - Psychohistory, etc.
2. Star Trek - Tv series - Gene Roddenberry - United Federation of Planets, Warp Drive, Transporters, Tri-corders, etc.
3. Galactic Civilizations 1 & 2 - Video Game series (I will include the lists of video games already discussed from other threads)
4. Wired - magazine - exploring the ideas of today and the application of tommorrow.
5. Longecity.org - website and forum - http://www.longecity.org/forum/ - discussion of actually implementing ideas of the future.
6. TED - videos - http://www.ted.com/ - ideas worth spreading - cutting edge discussion
7. PhysOrg - website - http://phys.org/ - science news
8. ScienceDaily - website - http://www.sciencedaily.com/ - science news
9. Build the Entreprise - newstory and organization - http://www.popsci.com/technology/ar...-starship-effort-launches-first-round-funding
10. The Venus Project - Movement, Organization, great ambitious ideas, and website - http://thevenusproject.com/
(To be added.) Feel free to add you own.

Example of a type of idea to post here:

4. Galactic Age - Foundation Series (book) by Issac Asimov
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_series

(from wikipedia)
Impact in non-fiction

In Learned Optimism, psychologist Martin Seligman identifies the Foundation series as one of the most important influences in his professional life, because of the possibility of predictive sociology based on psychological principles. He also lays claim to the first successful prediction of a major historical (sociological) event, in the 1988 US elections, and he specifically attributes this to a psychological principle.

Paul Krugman, winner of the 2008 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences, credits the Foundation series with turning his mind to economics, as the closest existing science to psychohistory.

I think Psychohistory should be a future technology, in honor of Isaac Asimov, it should be early in the Galactic Era.

Would anyone else like to talk about the series, and any other ideas that come from it that could be used for C2C.
(thread idea -work in progress, these ideas will be including in the Idea Inspiration and Organization thread and the Idea Tracker)

GiuseppeIII said:

I liked what you said about having more techs in the alternate eras. I was thinking that maybe after you made an alternate era culture.m( clock punk, bio punk, steam punk etc) you would open up a new line of techs that would lead you further into that alternate reality where at a certain point it would come back to our reality. Just an idea

Click to expand...

Thank you, I think in time people will see a compelling need to continue these type of general discussions in this thread. I've seen some of these conversations happen over and over. Here is a one-stop shop. Besides I love talking about the future. I'm sure a few other people do too. I suspect a few more ideas will come up this way.

I think of alternate eras not a switch of timelines, from medieval to dark ages for instance. But a opened up collection of a new tech-tree and options, that run with the others. It is an AND/OR situation that depends on the circumstances. For instance a post-apocalyptic era can be triggered across many other eras, so could the alien invasion. It would fundamentally change the way a civilization pursues technology.
For example, I think the post-apocalyptic era could cause you to forget some technologies and not other ones, and open up reasons to develop new ones. Some civs could lose more technologies than others in that setting, and some one be harder to re-discover. This is the type of discussion that could be moved to a post-apocalyptic thread but could also be considered too general. One of the purposes of this thread is to inspire new threads based on general discussion here. You will see an awful lot of discussion from me here, and copied/linked from other threads.

You really need a new topic for this after MrAzure made like 15 topics on this over the last 3 weeks?

Yes,
I think we need one single place to combine all the loose ideas, and have ongoing general discussion about the future. (I hope this thread could be or inspire it).

I for one, love to talk about the future, and desire a single place to talk about it, and to collect ideas about the future. It is also a good place to draw these out and develop them before they end up in the future threads.

All Hail to MrAzure's effort, he is taking us all further into the future. I support pretty much everything he is doing. This thread is an effort to honor that and bring all future discussion together. It is not an attempt to just rework or take over MrAzure's threads. I want general conversation on the future to be productive and brought together. If MrAzure wants to take over this, or work together with me, I'm fine with that. I just wanted to focus our 'Future' efforts.
I was organizing all this anyway for the Idea and Discussion thread.
I plan on listing everything I can, and this thread was to organize all the threads, as much as inspire them to be worked into C2C as to have general future discussion.

Here is a summary of MrAzure's future threads: I am trying to tie them together in a one-stop shop so that people can have general discussion in one place AND as a directory so that they can go to the appropriate place for specific discussion.

This thread would be fine if we could keep it going. Since I plan on moderating mine, and MrAzure may be busy with his, I think we should combine efforts in my thread, but that is up to everyone else. (I plan on spending a lot of my time collecting these ideas since I naturally love to do it anyway).

"The Future" General Chat Thread (2015 AD to Beyond)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459982
How do you see the future?
Besides flying cars and cyborgs and interstellar travel?
I believe in order to achieve our highest creative potential in Caveman2Cosmos we must have a place to just talk about the future eras in a casual manner.
Not to present ideas for the game but to interact with each other and share our visions of what we believe the future is going to be like. A place to share material we find about the future in order to expand our creativity. This ideas can spark something that can be used in C2C in the future eras.
The problem with Caveman2Cosmos is that real history has guided us on how to craft the first part of the C2C. When it comes to the future, anything is really possible.
Lets talk about the future. Have a general chat.
Lets share sources and material of what the future may be like.

My personal take is to not just have general discussion, and collect resources and ideas about the future, it is also to have activate discussion about how to get them into C2C in a way we can all agree with.

I am just taking the step of improving on this thread by MrAzure and making my C2C - Future thread an official Future discussion thread:
[REFERENCE] Random Unofficial Futuristic Brainstorm and Stuff
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464828
Add stuff if you want, but consider it "unofficial". This is like a black market for futuristic brainstorming. Official suggestions go to Transhuman/Galactic Threads.

C2C- Future Timeline
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=467456
In this thread we discuss the timeline of the future eras, and decide when major future events occurred and categorize them in a historical timeline. This will allow the ModTeam and players to get a summary of the Future Eras and its historical context

What do YOU want to see in the future eras?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464579
Digital(2010-2040 A.D) [Low Transhuman Era]
Cyber (2040-2100 A.D) [ Mid Transhuman Era]
Nano (2100-2200 A.D) [High Transhuman Era]
Luminal (2200-2500 A.D)
Solar (2500-3000 A.D)
Interstellar (3000-10,000 A.D )
Galactic (10,000-125,000 A.D A.D)
Dimension(125,000 A.D - ???? A.D)

C2C- Futuristic Religions and Culture - MrAzure
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=467454
This thread is to discuss the religions of the Digital, Cyber, Nano, Solar, Interstellar, Galactic, and Dimension Eras.

C2C - ORION'S ARM / Encyclopedia Galactica Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464148
I found Orion's Arm, and it has a plethora of plausible stuff for Atompunk, Dieselpunk, Biopunk, Cyberpunk, Transhuman Era, and Galactic Era.The Techs are a perfect match for Caveman2Cosmos since the "Tech rules" ,(like no aliens), of both Orion Arm and Caveman2Cosmos are virtually Identical. Also all of the future techs are plausible and backed by hard science. It has operated for a decade and has 100s of contributors.

[GRAPHICS] FutureArt Armory (1200+ pics ready for .DDS Buttons)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464994
These pics and icons are perfect for future unit icons, spaceship buildings, Tech buttons, and the larger pics

as well as newer threads like
Technovelgy.com Discussion "Where Science Meets fiction" - Sarah Starlight
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468321

and older ones like
Underwater cites àla "Call to Power"?
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=453571

To quote:

Hydromancerx said:

We already have similar topics ...

C2C Aliens
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=428650

C2C: Modern/Transhuman World Projects
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=438790

C2C - Transhuman Era
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=448582

C2C - Galactic Era
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435974

Biotech Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443226

Cybertech Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443227

Retro Space/Retro Future age (Atompunk)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443151

Click to expand...

These are all great,
but we don't have good organization.
I think the individual threads are great for individual discussion,

to quote MrAzure
"Remember post your polished ideas for C2C in the following threads, this thread is for general chat only

Caveman2Cosmos Specific Discussion Threads
Quote:
Alternative Timelines
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=439662

C2C Space Terrain
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=453005

Civics Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=454320

Crime and Punishment Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=435942

New Buildings Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459628

New Heroes Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=457982

Religion Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=443077

Tech Tree Discussion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=459006
"

also
Post -Apocalypse Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455125

These are better places to have focused discussions on the specific topics. Only you can keep those conversations moving to get better ideas into C2C!

Ultimately, I plan on having these lists broken down by individual list.
Era discussion - links to ind eras like transhuman, galactic, etc.
Future ideas - techs, units, links, linked discussions, etc.
Future resources - 3d models, books, games, videos, etc.

And open it up to specific, general, AND implementation discussion.

I just want to organize a one-stop place for the future, and to get everyone talking about it.
My purpose is to keep that conversation going, and point it towards improving C2C, by sparking integration of ideas.
We need one central place for the future.

@RightFuture, I think that the future timeline link from the previous discussion page was rather generous about how long it would take for our current governments to collapse...america in 2030's? Really? The collapse of the west is unfolding in front of our very eyes, and they say it's still 20 years away.

Here is a recent article on a book that has lot's of inspirational ideas for C2C. I've mentioned it several times in these forums. Just thought I'd bring it back up.
Here is what they had to say.

http://boingboing.net/2012/07/29/enthralling-books-bloo.html

"Blood Music by Greg Bear is one of the most enthralling books I've ever read.

I've been absolutely riveted and enthralled by many of Greg's books, but this one has a unique quality that I found most appealing. It's the vast breadth of the progression of the story, the shear imaginative distance traveled from where it starts to where it ends. And it's not a long book!"

This is another good reason to collect these ideas in one place.

Prophet Iacobus said:

@RightFuture, I think that the future timeline link from the previous discussion page was rather generous about how long it would take for our current governments to collapse...america in 2030's? Really? The collapse of the west is unfolding in front of our very eyes, and they say it's still 20 years away.

Click to expand...

I agree.
The timeframe for societal collapse could happen at any time (the Dark Ages, or an Alien invasion is an example)
The trigger for this should be set in C2C game options, to allow people to decide when and if they want to play it, and the frequency/ time-frame it could happen in.

Near future collapse scenarios should be a major consideration in designing the near future,
Everything from peak oil, economic collapse, zombies (optional but included since they are so popular), etc.

The post-apocalyptic future thread is a good place to discuss it further.
Post -Apocalypse Alt History Brainstorming Thread
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=455125

We should encourage these ongoing conversations, so that important things are not forgotten, and so that we can take enough time to work out these issues before they can be implemented.

Here's another video about the future

In a disturbing vision of what's to come, a short Israeli film imagines the merging of big data, social media, gamification, and AR.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...augmented-reality-future/?tag=mncol;cnetRiver

The concept imagines the merging of big data, social media, gamification, and augmented reality into something that ultimately doesn't seem that far-fetched, or even that far down the road.
What do you think?

@rightfuture

That's both cool and scary! Thanks for sharing that video.

Hydromancerx said:

@rightfuture

That's both cool and scary! Thanks for sharing that video.

Click to expand...

You are most welcome!,

I hope we can have all have a lot more good discussions here about the future, ....and how to get the more interesting, fun, challenging, and realistic ones into C2C!

Here's another idea, Maybe we should have a big brother alternate timeline era?

Hopefully, C2C can be made into the exploration of Multiple future possibilities, and not just the most probable one.

This way C2C can stay fun for everyone, select-ably (optionally) imaginative/plausibly realistic, varied, immersive, and evolving into the best Civ ever!

I for one love to explore the future! Thank you for keeping C2C evolving and fun!
Let's inspire some more discussion and discovery.