PolyCast Episode 153: "Working As Intended"

[DanQ]

Famously, or infamously, depending upon one's perspective. The one-hundred-and-fifty-third episode of PolyCast, "Working As Intended", features regular co-hosts Daniel "DanQ" Quick, "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and "MadDjinn" with first-time guest co-host Travis "TravisATWA", it has a runtime of 59m59s; listeners are encouraged to follow the show on Twitter, and check out the YouTube channel for caption capability.

The summary of topics is as follows:

- 01m38s | Forum Talk
Contemplating the inability of embarked units to defend in Civilization IV, followed by the following on CivV: first month assessments of the Gods & Kings expansion (08m50s), should players be allowed to raze any city including capitals (22m39s), and debating the continued merits of using Iron for units in the Classical and Medieval Eras (31m53s).
- 42m44s | Senate
The value of using Citadels offensively given changes to this Great General unique terrain improvement ability in the first Civilization V expansion.
- 47m29s | Research Lab
Proposing an ice-breaker unit and the Canadian influence for a City State League suggestion (53m31s).

- Intro/Outro | Miscellaneous
Something as nothing, and of fulfilling a great expectation.

Recording live before a listening audience every other Saturday, PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production in an ongoing effort to give the Civ community an interactive voice on game strategy; sibling show RevCast focuses on Civilization: Revolution, ModCast on Civ modding, SCivCast on Civ social gaming and TurnCast on Civ multiplay.

[apocalypse105]

My opinion about swordsman in gods and king :

Usefull do people forget that you can upgrade you're swordsman to longswordsman wich are stronger then pikeman?

Olso longswordsman --) upgrade to musketman and then to rifleman SO if you are going domination iron is verry usefull especialy if you have a unique musketman

[Babri]

Originally Posted by apocalypse105

My opinion about swordsman in gods and king :

Usefull do people forget that you can upgrade you're swordsman to longswordsman wich are stronger then pikeman?

Olso longswordsman --) upgrade to musketman and then to rifleman SO if you are going domination iron is verry usefull especialy if you have a unique musketman

But as a unit itself, swordsman is underwhelming. Too expensive to research, can't fight well against walled cities, requires iron and thus overall inferior to spears which are cheaper, resourceless & available early.

[apocalypse105]

Originally Posted by Babri

But as a unit itself, swordsman is underwhelming. Too expensive to research, can't fight well against walled cities, requires iron and thus overall inferior to spears which are cheaper, resourceless & available early.

I agree the technology is to expansive iron working should have the same amount of beakers as horseback riding

Olso iron should be revealed earlier at mining or bronze working just like horses (So you don't wast all you're research at iron working to see that you don't have any iron..

However the unit it self is Ok the spear is much weaker then the swordsman SO the person who has iron has a better front line and mid shields, wich result in better moving forward.. Besides its only a few technologies later to get to steal... wich gives you longswordsman of 20 strenght

[nokmirt]

I agree with the idea of a conquest victory style, over the current take capital domination VC. However, If a conquest victory condition was added, I feel players should be able to choose if they would rather conquer a percentage of the map to win, or instead, take all rival capitals. It would be nice to have a choice on which variation of domination game, they would like to play.

There is one more thing I wanted to say. In another thread I posted that you should be able to raze capitals. Thinking about it and listening to the discussion on PolyCast. I no longer feel that is realistic anymore without changing a lot about the game, which is linked to the capitals. In my mind destroying your enemy's army and conquering their cities, to grind down their economy and production, should be more important than just capturing capitals. Capitals are still important in the scheme of things, but capturing them should not necessarily be the only strategy to win a war. Although, if capitals are taken they should be a large politcal trump card for diplomacy. The civ who has lost it's capital should try to make a deal with the conquering civ to get it back. Perhaps an agreement to not build military units for so many turns. Or, agree to a short alliance with the conquering civ in order to regain it's capital. The other thing they could do is make an international call for help, or decided to fight to the death to regain their capital. To make a long story short, a civ's capital should be the lifeblood of its people. Losing that should be a national morale killer maybe there should be a happiness/economic/religious penalty empire wide for losing a capital, if the civ decides to give in to the conquerors and make a deal to regain it. Or, a civ who loses their capital gains more resolve to get it back, if they decide to fight on against the conquerors. Production increases, happiness increases, everything increases, because the people rise up to fight for the symbol representing who they are.

Diplomacy also needs some things added to it. One thing would be adding the ability to sign a short alliance between two or more civs. The alliance would last for so many turns, and after time runs out, talks would then be convened to decide if the alliance should continue or not. I also, feel that a secret pact should come back in some format, not sure what though. I know diplomacy was not discussed, but it does go hand in hand with conquering and war.

Also, wouldn't city trading be kind of interesting? Or, with espionage, a spy could go in and try to forment rebellion in a rival city. If this mission is successful, the city joins your civilization. This should not be able to be done in capitals, and should only have a chance to occur in a city adjacent to the civ trying this kind of spy mission.

IMO expanding diplomacy and espionage will make the game more interesting, as long as it is done right. I don't want to overcomplicate things. Just spice the game up a bit. Sorry if I got a bit OT there.

I do not agree with the idea of using offensive citadels, because the the AI does not use them, and even if it did, would not use them properly. This ability just gives the human player a huge advantage, which makes the lacking AI that much more vulnerable. Now, in multiplayer, offensive citadels must make games quite intense. However, citadels as they are now are way overpowered in single player. I've seen many video LPs where the human comes up against a tough AI city that is hard to take. Then a GG appears and the player's problems are then solved quite quickly. At least much more quickly than they would have been. It just makes things too easy. The devs should downgrade this GG ability and make the game more challenging in this department.

[DanQ]

Thanks to the three of you who have replied in this thread to date -- one or more of them may very well find their way onto the show in the future.

Hope all have enjoyed the episode.

[hobbsyoyo]

I discovered PolyCast very recently and listened to this episode. It was really good, and I found Madjin's breakdown of the Swordsmen v Pike debate pretty funny. I hadn't even realized this was an issue - I guess because I pretty much play the game as intended and don't go looking for cheap tricks and the like.

I also recommended the show to a guy on another thread who wanted advice on good YouTube videos and strategy streams. I got beat to mentioning the LP's though.

Two thumbs up!

[softcactus]

Hey this was very cool, enjoyed it a lot. Thanks for taking the time guys.

Have you thought about broadcasting on twitch? You might get this info out to more gamers - specially if you tag it as civ 5.

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by hobbsyoyo

I discovered PolyCast very recently and listened to this episode. It was really good[...] [..]

I also recommended the show to a guy on another thread who wanted advice on good YouTube videos and strategy streams. I got beat to mentioning the LP's though.

Two thumbs up!

If you have the opportunity and feel so inclined, hope you enjoy our archive of productions as well.

Originally Posted by softcactus

Hey this was very cool, enjoyed it a lot. Thanks for taking the time guys.

-- I take it that this was the first episode you've listened to then? Did you find the show here through CFC or..?

Have you thought about broadcasting on twitch? You might get this info out to more gamers - specially if you tag it as civ 5.

At the time we switched to live recording format last January, TwitchTV had not yet launched unfortunately. Last fall we were asked a similar question about going over to Twitch, and in investigating the possibility realized that the technical setup would have to be the same. That said, in revisiting this possibility given your post above I came across a video from last December that at least holds the possibility of being able to change the technical setup -- and for the better -- even if we stay with uStream. For that at the very least, I appreciate the inquiry that returned me to this consideration.

[softcactus]

Originally Posted by DanQ

If you have the opportunity and feel so inclined, hope you enjoy our archive of productions as well.


-- I take it that this was the first episode you've listened to then? Did you find the show here through CFC or..?

I hit MadDjinns videos on youtube looking for some info on how to play civ 5 on the hardest difficulties. That led me to the civ fanatics forum which is where I saw the topic about your cast.

@ the twitch thing: that makes sense.

[smallfish]

Originally Posted by nokmirt

I do not agree with the idea of using offensive citadels, because the the AI does not use them, and even if it did, would not use them properly.

They do use them.

Properly too.

Spoiler:

[hobbsyoyo]

Originally Posted by smallfish

They do use them.

Properly too.

Spoiler:

Wow that's really cool! I've never seen that, but I have seen them consistently fail to pillage citadels that they are occupying that I've used to strangle their capital.

[bcaiko]

Are you guys no longer on iTunes? I can't seem to find you there anymore, and that's how I always found the podcast.

[Hammer Rabbi]

Originally Posted by smallfish

They do use them.

Properly too.

Spoiler:

yeah, that's how i actually learned that they could take land, when an AI stole 2 resources from me and gained 2 tiles closer to me. i had previously only used them within my tiles for strategic bottlenecks.

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by softcactus

I hit MadDjinns videos on youtube looking for some info on how to play civ 5 on the hardest difficulties. That led me to the civ fanatics forum which is where I saw the topic about your cast.

Originally Posted by bcaiko

Are you guys no longer on iTunes? I can't seem to find you there anymore, and that's how I always found the podcast.

That the majority of the PolyCast family of podcasts, including PolyCast (PC), is no longer available on iTunes is hoped to be a temporary condition though unfortunately, I don't have a timeline for its rectification -- that is in Apple's hands.

For more information, including how to access PC et. al. including for manual addition into iTunes, see this announcement.

[bcaiko]

Originally Posted by DanQ

That the majority of the PolyCast family of podcasts, including PolyCast (PC), is no longer available on iTunes is hoped to be a temporary condition though unfortunately, I don't have a timeline for its rectification -- that is in Apple's hands.

For more information, including how to access PC et. al. including for manual addition into iTunes, see this announcement.

Thanks, Dan. I'll have to go in a download a few episodes.

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by bcaiko

Thanks, Dan. I'll have to go in a download a few episodes.

Welcome.