Learning Deity: Hateshput

After settling in place, I realise that this map is very overpowered for someone who wants to LEARN to play on Deity. So I have decided to re roll the map and give it another shot over here. Many thanks. This game however isn't abandoned. It is just on hold momentarily. Thanks to everyone for all the input. I really do appreciate it.

After playing a couple of games on Immortal and winning, I've decided to give the ultimate Civ difficulty a shot; Deity! For this to be successful, I'm going to need a lot of help!! But anyway, standard settings, huts and events off, continents.

Start is below:



SIP seems to be a sensible choice here Had to regenerate around 30 times because every single start was coastal or OP (triple gold, triple clam, river access and 5 FP's was one of those).

Tech Path: Mining->BW->AH?
It all depends on whether or not I find copper I think. Not sure what would be the optimum over here. Help would be greatly appreciated

So sorry, forgot to attached the save!! Attached now

I'll definitely be following this. Might even give it a whirl myself if you don't mind. SIP seems like an obvious choice. As does worker first and mining. We'll need a little exploration first. But I might go AH before BW and keep fingers crossed for horses.

Can you post starting save? Thanks

Agree on mining--BW--AH

If you go AH first, your worker will not have anything to do. I find chops very powerful. They are good for rex, for rush and for defense. Since you still don't know what's ahead of you, BW seems like a logical choice here. And it reveals copper. If you discover horses somewhere close, you'll probably be able to get that site faster with chops.

The worker will have plenty to do. There's a riverside grassland hill to be mined and probably another unforested hill in the fog. That being said, BW first might still be stronger. We need to see some more of the map first.

Disagree on BW before AH here, worker can be kept busy with the wheel.
River gras cow and War Charis..it's important seeing early if they can be built, you can build a settler at size 2 here if horsies are close and road towards that spot.

Very tough to argue against AH with the egyptians - especially when you have a green cow.

Without seeing the land around there's no way to say whether BOTH BW and AH early will be possible, but best to assume not. Shaka's comment above suggests that BW first is going to reveal horse too, which it surely will not

There is no way to plan a perfect start from the info available on turn 0, and AH is a better percentage bet IMO, even with all this visible forest. It's a tough call. There is a danger in getting BW and having chopping power but nothing useful to put the hammers into - just feeding cannon fodder warriors out into barb archers is a waste.

A few well-placed roads around a foresty capital are usually a good investment so I wouldn't worry about having spare worker turns without BW.

I'd go BW. You will not have horses in BFC, and there is jungle north, so you have to use those forests to chop some settlers out and grab the land south of you, hopefully there will be some commerce too cause without it research will be slow, in that case i would skip AH and go pottery and make use of that chopped capital asap.

you're egypt with AH resource in capital BFC...

Kid R said:

Shaka's comment above suggests that BW first is going to reveal horse too, which it surely will not

Click to expand...

Never said that. What I meant was if you go AH after BW and reveal horses, you'll be able to chop settler fast to get there. But you were probably sarcastic.

Note also that there is a jungle north from which barbs will come. There is higher probability to have copper somewhere close than having horses. And if you don't have copper close, you still have 15 forrests to chop defenders and, well, everything you need. I don't know why everyone here wants to rush with WCs only because there is possibility to do so. It is not a strategy but it is a gambit. Going BW first leaves you with more options and doesn't cancel WC rush at all. Maybe there is even probability of peaceful REX here in which case you'll again need chops to put those block cities fast.

Besides, this is learning deity thread. You'll not learn anything about deity by relying on superunit rushes. Then you can always play with Inca since you are guaranteed to have Quechuas available every game.

that grassland hill looks tons of suspicious...

I disagree shaka... going AH here isn't based on the ability to superrush, but the basic "rule" of getting worker techs for your neighborhood and AH is resource you need for that super strong riverside grass cow tile.

you already have agri for that rice... so let's just make some vague calculations....

worker in 12 turns, T 17 you have improved rice, T18 move to forest, T19 to another forest, t20 you can start improving cows, having them online T24, T25 moving forest, T26 another forest, T27 moving to GH, T28 start mining.

that means you have 28 turns for having AH and mining...easily done imo

complication here seems to be that you need tons of turns for movement... if we lay down the worker turns.

You would maybe want mine that GH before going cows...

so you could adjust tech path to mining->ah->bw and that way you get enough turns for teching and enough turns for improving.

AH opens writing as another plus for creative leader...

edit:

maybe best way how to start the game would be tech mining and play up to mining and then after seeing neighborhood adjusting techpath.

what I would avoid is scouting that north east which is clearly jungled...

WCs are so useful vs. barbs too, and bit cheaper than Axes.
Usually need less of them for defending cos of mobility, and they can reach barb cities faster (sometimes they are weaker defended).

Thinking about techs is good, cos very important on Deity right from the go go, but not starting with AH here = over thinking It's a sure bet.

Yep yep. We're not (well I'm not anyway) advocating rushing with war chariots. But until barb spears come along, WCs are going to be stellar against barbs.

WCs gonna be stellar IF you have horses.
It is also interesting how chop hammers don't get into any calculation here. Chops will also clear the way and less worker turns will be wasted on movement. Yes, you get more total yield from cows but with BW first, you get workers and settlers faster. With two chopping workers you can rex like AI. You lose some 8 turns of research to BW times 2 extra yield from cows (compared to a mine which you improve when going BW first). 15-16 turns of not having BW and not chopping is almost 4 forrest chops or 80 very early.
Bulbing Maths on this map could be very strong. And it fits AH route too.

I can live with Vranasm's edit. That seems the best way to go.

I'd like one of the grassland hills to have pigs on it. That would make all this debating funny.

Your analysis is okay on levels below deity. But playing on this level requires adequate barb protection before expansion. You can't just chop out settlers without having an area cleared for them. And it seems a waste to put chops into warriors. Also important is to remember that you can't expand like the AI since they aren't paying nearly as much in civic upkeep as we have to.

In other words. Let's see some bacon.

My inclination would be to go for Mining-BW first, survey the land, and if there's no bronze within easy access go Hunting-Archery and then AH. I tend to find that it's too much of a gamble on deity to go for bronze and horses and set them up and get out a defender in time for the first serious barb wave. Overflowing into an archer from your first settler usually works well, however.

If you're boxed in, I'd switch the tech path to Mining-AH-BW, as vranasm suggests. Fog busting is easy when you're surrounded

shakabrade said:

Never said that. What I meant was if you go AH after BW and reveal horses, you'll be able to chop settler fast to get there. But you were probably sarcastic.

Click to expand...

Yes it came out more sarcastic than I meant I also agree with vranasm mining being a good idea first. The worker can do that nice green hill while he's over on the rice side and then plod all the way over to the cows if AH is chosen next.

Kid R said:

Yes it came out more sarcastic than I meant I also agree with vranasm mining being a good idea first. The worker can do that nice green hill while he's over on the rice side and then plod all the way over to the cows if AH is chosen next.

Click to expand...

This does save 2 worker turns(wich you can only spend on roads, but the cow is pastured 5 turns earlier if you do pasture it before the mine. I don't think the lost production is worth less than 1 section of road.

Thanks everyone for all of the replies, really love the enthusiasm I'm seeing here (Let's hope not to jinx it )

However, after settling in place, I think Mining may be a good way to go in this game Thoughts?

I think Mining->AH->BW seems about right.
City: Worker->Warrior (until size 3)->Worker->Settler or Settler->Worker depending on how long it takes me to get to BW.

Also depends how many AI I have next to me. I may not even need to rush towards Horses if I'm on the verge of getting boxed in cos no barbs otherwise

Benginal said:

Your analysis is okay on levels below deity. But playing on this level requires adequate barb protection before expansion. You can't just chop out settlers without having an area cleared for them. And it seems a waste to put chops into warriors. Also important is to remember that you can't expand like the AI since they aren't paying nearly as much in civic upkeep as we have to.

Oh, trust me, I am more than competent on Deity. Again, I never said land wouldn't be safe for settlers. Safety was understood as this is deity game thread and I thought all people giving advice here are competent. Chopping warriors is bad only if you OF more than they are worth since then you lose hammers. If you get your desired number of fogbusters earlier with chops, you also start working on settlers and workers earlier and you can even chop them too.

I typically fogbust mostly with warriors (on forrested hills) since they are cheap and reinforce my barb front with resource units once I connect metal or horses. I don't typically lose more than one or two fogbusting warriors in my games. Getting them on their positions with chops earlier reduces chance of barb spawning and greatly reduces barb threat in general. Also, warriors will be same amount of happiness under HR as more expensive units.

With expanding like an AI I meant on gradient, not total number of cities. That means when AI has 4 cities, you also have 4 cities. But if I get strong commerce in BFC or second or third city, I can expand like crazy. Even on deity. Creative leaders like Hatshepshut can expand easily. Not only because they pop borders quickly but also because of cheap libraries which allow you to get decent bpt from specialists even at 0% research because of REX. And then you get currency and worry no more.

In other words. Let's see some bacon.

Click to expand...

You don't get bacon from cows, you get it from pigs.