NC CIV: Genghis Khan

H

Herodotus Rex

Chieftain
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Genghis Khan of The Mongols, whom we last played in NC XXXVIII; we last played the Mongols under Kublai in NC LXXIX. The Mongols start with The Wheel and Hunting.

Ghengis.jpg
  • Traits: Genghis Khan is Aggressive and Imperialistic.

    Aggressive means faster barracks but is a bit of a puzzler because it doesn't synergize well at all with his UU or UB.
    Imperialistic will help with early settler production and will help ensure you obtain horses and enough cities for a strong Keshik rush.

  • The UB: The Ger, a Stable that gives 4XP to mounted units instead of 2. A (AGG - cheap) barracks and Ger gives two promotions and puts you 3 XP from a 3rd promotion. An early war and a (IMP - quickly acquired) settled Great General will put you 1 XP away, and when combined with Vassalage or Theocracy the Mongols can get some very well promoted units.

    Ger.jpg


  • The UU: The Keshik, a Horse Archer with one first strike that ignores terrain movement costs. Unlike Horse Archers, Keshiks lack immunity to first strikes, but its own first strike cancels an unpromoted archer's base first strike - early on that's a wash. Watch out for drill-promoted archers, against which Keshiks are more vulnerable than regular horse archers. Keshiks are comparatively better against many melee units because of their free first strike, and can lead devastatingly fast surprise attacks with two movement points regardless of terrain.

    Kheshik.jpg
And the start:
GenghisStart.png

Spoiler map details :
Lakes, high seas for bigger lakes.
Spoiler edits :
I chose the AIs in game in order to (hopefully) present a nice mix of characters and rerolled until I got a relatively evenly distributed map with preferred AI neighbors. Made some edits to how big the lakes were in order to more evenly distribute likely zones of control for AIs (for balance).

Added a ton of forests in order to maximize Keshik awesomeness and added/modified a few rivers for the same reason. I flattened some hills because hill archers destroy an HA rush - this may mean than AIs are at a bit of a disadvantage due to lack of production and is the most game changing edit. I hope this will be balanced by a greater incidence of plains tiles and more chops from forests.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "Khan Noble Huts" (or Monarch/No Huts, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.


PS: This is only the second map that I have made so, while I believe I have gotten problems worked out, there may be some issues. If you believe there is a problem with any of the saves please let me know and I will try to fix the issue as soon as I can! Enjoy =]
 

Attachments

Reserved!

Oh, and please remember to use the spoiler function on anything that contains any information about the map (AIs, resources, etc) - you will save yourself and others a headache if you use this feature when in doubt. You can do this with the little button that says "SPOIL" at the top of the text input box!

Spoiler :
The Oz-Man - 1770 Monarch Conquest, events but no huts

Pigswill - 1480 BCE Noble Conquest, marathon speed

Smilingrogue 1800 Monarch Conquest, normal speed, no events or huts

Soirana 245 BCE Monarch Conquest

Doshin 1842 Deity Domination, normal speed, no events or huts

KaytieKat 1400 Noble Conquest, normal speed, no events or huts
 
Ah, shoot. That's what I was worried about. I know that Option=GAMEOPTION_NO_EVENTS is supposed to be in there somewhere, but I just don't know where. Does anyone know?

Until I get this fixed if you want no events I think you can still choose "Custom Scenario" and choose "No Events." Sorry for the inconvenience, I'll fix it as soon as I can figure it out.
 
Re: Removing Events

Spoiler :

The line should be in the first few bits of the WB saves in the BeginGame section.
For your reference, this is the beginning of the code for the most recent SOM saves.
Code: 
Version=11
BeginGame
	Era=ERA_ANCIENT
	Speed=0
	Calendar=CALENDAR_DEFAULT
	Option=GAMEOPTION_NO_GOODY_HUTS
	[B]Option=GAMEOPTION_NO_EVENTS[/B]
	Victory=VICTORY_TIME
	Victory=VICTORY_CONQUEST
	Victory=VICTORY_DOMINATION
	Victory=VICTORY_CULTURAL
	Victory=VICTORY_SPACE_RACE
	Victory=VICTORY_DIPLOMATIC
	GameTurn=0
	MaxTurns=0
	MaxCityElimination=0
	NumAdvancedStartPoints=600
	TargetScore=0
	StartYear=-4000
	Description=
	ModPath=
EndGame
So should go around there.

Hope this helps.
 
You're a lifesaver, just what I was looking for. Thanks!

Files should be changed within 15 minutes for those who can wait ;)

EDIT: Done. Should be ok now and I learned something new - yay
 
I missed a moment, when NC become a no fresh water start maps.
 
Doesn't bother me. :p I play with events on periodically.

I'm at 560 AD on Monarch, no huts, yes events:

Spoiler :
Here are the things I like about Genghis:

1. He has Keshiks.
2. He has Gers.

Here are the things I dislike about Genghis.

1. He has Keshiks and Gers but his first name isn't Kublai.
2. Every single other thing.

Settled one north to grab the extra corn. I learned that you put Asoka next to Genghis Khan. Lol, etc., he died in 350 BC.

I usually go straight for HBR with Mongolia, but since Mr. BoGenghles sucks at basically all of the things except using Keshiks to ruin his economy and since I had a lot of food around the capital anyway, I decided to go for Writing first to shoot for an early Academy. In hindsight, this was an extremely smart move because I literally went into strike one turn before finishing Currency (right after Asoka died). Lost one Keshik, shuffled tiles around to cottages, and powered through it.

While I was preparing for war with Hammy, Gil plunked a town down between Delhi and my gold/horse city. That wasn't very smart of him. Now it's 560 AD, and he's my vassal. :D

So I've got about ten cities, the largest empire in the world, and a vassal at a pretty early date. Monarchy isn't really well-known yet, and Feudalism is a monopoly. I'm #1 in the important categories on the Demographics screen, and I have Courthouses and the ability to build Wealth. I could probably get one more vassal out of Keshiks, but I'm tempted to play happy kingdom for a while, build some of the Aesthetics-line wonders, and wait for Military Tradition. In any case, the game's pretty much in the bag.
 
Is that plains wine to the SW? If so, I am tempted to settle on that for a little extra commerce. Lots of hills nearby for Keshik rushing greeting the neighbours. :D
 
Shouldn't that be a special Nobles Club? A jubilee because the number matches the game abbreviaton, how many games can claim that ;)
 
1770 Conquest:

Spoiler :
Nothing to report beyond the last one--as I figured, the game was basically over. Got Great Library and Parthenon from the Aesthetics line, won the Music GA, and launched my Golden Age in time for Cuir madness. First Babylon, then Celtia, then Korea, then France. I used the Communism Great Spy to infiltrate France as well, so in the last war I was able to see production in every city, and my spot on the Espionage graph shot up from distant second to distant first. Found Napoleon's stack, beat it up, boom.


Thanks for the map, H-Rex!
 
Hi

Nobel, normal, no huts or events, 375bc

Spoiler :
I scooted over 1 west so I could get river bonus. I went ag,ah,mining, bw,myst. Copper in the bfc and asoka right nearby. *sigh* I really really REALLY had to think about just Axing him out but figured this is Khan so I would sav ehim for horsey whomp :)

So instead I built settlers mostly with stops along way to build stonehenge in cap and just chopped 'mids in my scecond city which I put to grab gold and horseys.

My empire at this point:

ncgenghis375bc.jpg


Its exactly turn 100 and I have 6 cities and my economy tanking BIGTIME. Good news is I do have some leewway on slider, just switched to rep, am very very close to great prophet in about 1 or 2 turns and am 1 turn away from hbr and keshiks. Im not really good at normal speed so prolly alrdy missed window for huge keshik charge but hopefully I can get at least asok.

Meanwhile after I am out of anarchy plan is to build gers/keshisks in big cities, granaries/libraries in smaller cities while teching alpha/currency road my way to brennis and hammi and open borders and at some point try to kill ppl wish me luck :)

Kaytie
 
Taking out hills so AIs are easier, you guys should re-think about such game changing edits..
i cannot be the only one who does not want that in my games.
 
Hi

Maybe discussion about map creation and what edits might or might not be appropriate should be in the bullpen thread.

Kaytie
 
Mylene said:
Taking out hills so AIs are easier, you guys should re-think about such game changing edits..
i cannot be the only one who does not want that in my games.
Click to expand...

That's a truth; that is why AI's are really debilitated on wacko maps like rainforest or boreal. Even Oasis can bring such consequence.
 
@KaytieKat:
Spoiler :
"Its exactly turn 100 and I have 6 cities and my economy tanking BIGTIME."
From screenshot, you have too many roads. They're only needed to connect cities and luxury resources, early on.
Also they enable future movement but that is less pressing. Tiles where you won't move units don't need roads. So, mostly, roading the shortest route between cities is enough.

Less roads = more other worker actions (improvements/chops) = better economy :)

I wouldn't swear you've missed the window of opportunity for Keshiks. Looks good to me.
If you want many libraries/commerce/research cities, be sure to still get some specialized military cities ;) And try to produce at least a couple Keshiks from all cities. Best way to benefit from a new military tech is with a burst. Whole Empire contribution.
 
Is it just me or are the AIs really struggling to cope with this map? :confused:
Granted, this is coming from a noob who had this happen to him:
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0006z.jpg

I didn't realise my spawn-busting warrior got eaten by that archer and kicked myself after I clicked to settle and noticed what really happened :lol:

But the tech and AI settling pace seem to be slower than what I am used to.

Anyway, Monarch, Normal speed, no huts or events. Upto 125 BC. (Warning : I got carried away with the images again. But they are so shiny and colourful and pretty! I can't help myself :blush:)
Spoiler :

Loaded up the map and found that what I thought was plains wine is actually plains incense. Since it has higher commerce value after plantation than winery would, I decided to keep it and settled one west for fresh water and wet corn in first ring.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0001oy.jpg


Scouts spotted Asoka nearby to the West, Hammurabi to the North, Brennus to the East, Wang Kon to the North East, Napoleon to the Northwest and Gilgamesh to the East of Asoka.

Initial tech path went Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Mining, Bronze Working, Pottery and Writing.

Hammy was on a wonder building spree. (Got the Great Wall and Oracle.) But as I found out after I traded for Alpha from him, I am the tech leader!
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0011g.jpg

Since Brennus was so far behind and I like stirring up trouble on Pangaea type maps to ruin relations early, I bribed Brennus on to Wang kon.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0014x.jpg

Bullied Wang to get Poly out of him too.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0018g.jpg

I am a jerk! :goodjob:

I generated a great Scientist in 800 BC who was sent to found an academy in the capital. Once he was got, I reassigned citizens to hills and farms to chop and whip out Keshiks. I had three cities, including the one I resettled to replace the barb razed one, all with barracks and Gers, bunches of hills and forests, pumping out Keshiks at a scary pace.

300 BC. I had 7 Keshiks on Asoka's borders with more being built and declared on him. Razed two cities.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0020t.jpg

Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0023.jpg

Captured two.
Spoiler :

Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0022l.jpg

He only had one more city left. I didn't care to chase after it and took peace for a nice haul of techs in 125 BC.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0026p.jpg


Meanwhile I teched Code of Laws for courthouses since Asoka's cities were quite far from the cap. The holy Confu city is the same as the holy Buddhist city.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0024o.jpg

If I can get both shrined and spread and eventually put Sid's Sushi (though Cereal mills maybe better as I haven't encountered fishies yet) and Mining Inc. there, that city might end up making more gold than I need. :crazyeye:

Tech situation looks scary. I am not used to be being this far ahead, this early.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0027.jpg


I am sending the free Confu missionary to Giggles to screw up continent diplo even more.
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0029.jpg

I might end up bribing more people into wars. I am not exactly blowing everyone else out of water in the demographics department
Spoiler :
civ4screenshot0030.jpg

But I have two Civs' worth of land here, plus the ability to rush Hammy right away for his wonders.
 
@KaytieKat:

Spoiler :
You should have stuck with noble marathon. Playing noble marathon I've got up to 1800bc, killed Asoka and Ham with chariots and I'm building my first keshik.
 
Emperor/Epic till 450BC:

Spoiler :
Tech was Agr/Pottery/AH(hut)/Mining/BW/HBR(hut)/Writing/Alpha/Currency while trading for little stuff. Now I'm just waiting to trade for Monarchy and self tech Fued to vassalize world.

Build was 1 settler while fog busting and getting barracks/Gers and spamming Keshiks.
Civ4ScreenShot0000.jpg
Civ4ScreenShot0001.jpg
 
Noble marathon 1480bc.

Spoiler :

ngk10001.jpg


Fun romp. Built 2 cities. Chopped away. Built 15 chariots, lost 10. Built 13 keshiks, lost 1. Razed 14 cities.
 
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