SoA

Considering the SoI is already almost finished, and due to lots of classic suggestion & request about an "ancient" SoI modmodmod on the same beautiful SoI map with philosophy, quality, and coding style not too differ from SoI,

Let's create a brainstorming thread focuses on the Civ list, UHV, UU etc

SoA stands for Swords of Alexander.. a random generic name I created because I can't leave the thread name empty

P.S : I heard that some people are already starts working on mod like this. Is there any news on that? Would like to hear because there's no news in RFC modmod thread.

When would the mod start?
3000 BC (Sumer and foundation of Egypt)?
or
336 (Alexander ascends the throne of Macedonia)
or earlier or later then any of the two?

Not 336 BC.. Too late, I think.
I think it should be on between 3500 BC to 3000 BC..
Playable from start should be Harappa, Egypt, Sumer and Elam.

Interesting...
Possible civ list (early to late):
Timeline:2500 BC (Unification of Lower and Upper Egypt) - 630 AD (Foundation of Islam)

Turns:

Doesn't RFC classical world already accomplish this?

alpav said:

Doesn't RFC classical world already accomplish this?

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Much of this timeline will be before the timespan of RFC Classical World, and it'll be in more detail. I remember there was a "RFC Ancient Near East" idea quite a while ago, but I can't find it anymore.

Setting the scope to be between Akkadians/Egypt and ending with or at Alexander would tie in nicely with RFC Classical.

A tentative list of some of the Civilizations that sprung to mind, most overlap with Civciv5 (all years BC):
Akkadians (2334). UHVs: conquests, get monarchy, build temples.

Babylonia (1894), including respawns 1595 as Kassites and 627. UHVs, get the biggest city, don't lose any city, get code of laws.

Mittani in the 1600s, north Iraq.

Hittites, 1650. UHV: conquer Anatolia, burn Babylon, vassalize Egypt.

Egypt: start at the same time as Akkad, several respawns. UHVs with wonders, population and conquest of Syria.

Nubia, 2000. UHV: conquer Egypt, culture, ?.

How about Greece? Minoas & Mycenae, as well as perhaps Athens/Sparta/Macedon would be nice to include, but then the map would need additions.

Israel, 1200.

Assyria, 911.

Persia, 550.

Phoenicians.

Medea.

Lydia.

After thinking more, I think this mod should be on 3000BC to 0 AD instead.

Cutting it out in 630 AD will be too long and we have to represent Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) in-game and have Islam in the religion tab while the founding of it leads to the end, making it a redundancy.

Cutting it out on somewhere between 0 AD and 630 AD.. I can't find any good year where everything ends because when it's a declining years in Near East, it's inclining years in India.. I can't find years where both are declining, like the 1200s in SoI.

On the civ list,
I think we should have Yemeni, Omani and Axum civilization too.
Special mechanic (dunno) for the foreign but influential power like Greek, Rome & Byzantine.

Israel
Spawn 1200 (independence from Egypt)
Leader: Solomon
UB: ???
UU: ???
UP: ???
UHV:
1) Control Palestine by 1000 (?)
2) Spread Judaism to 30% by 800 (?)
3) Become a Jewish Saint by 500 (or some other date? The saint thing is an obvious goal)

Egypt
Spawn: Start
Leader: Ramesses II
UU: War Chariot (just copying off of everything else)
UB: Obelisk (again just copying)
UP: Power of the Nile - Flood plains provide +1 food and +1 commerce
UHVs:
1) Build 5 world wonders
2) Control Egypt, Palestine, Cilicia, and Cyprus in 1500 (?)
3) Have at least one city with legendary culture by 1000

BenZL43 said:

After thinking more, I think this mod should be on 3000BC to 0 AD instead.

Cutting it out in 630 AD will be too long and we have to represent Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) in-game and have Islam in the religion tab while the founding of it leads to the end, making it a redundancy.

Cutting it out on somewhere between 0 AD and 630 AD.. I can't find any good year where everything ends because when it's a declining years in Near East, it's inclining years in India.. I can't find years where both are declining, like the 1200s in SoI.

On the civ list,
I think we should have Yemeni, Omani and Axum civilization too.
Special mechanic (dunno) for the foreign but influential power like Greek, Rome & Byzantine.

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I remember when this idea was first brought up, they wanted to end it at ~336 BC, because after that it's just Greeks/Romans/Byzantines dominating the west and the Persians dominating the east.

DC123456789 said:

I remember when this idea was first brought up, they wanted to end it at ~336 BC, because after that it's just Greeks/Romans/Byzantines dominating the west and the Persians dominating the east.

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If the game ends in 336 BC.. there's no Alexandrian invasion.. which IMO is one of the anchor point of the mod.. like how fun is combating Mongol in SoI

Besides, the original ideas one (which I presume you mean the one created by ..Theologian..?) use a "cropped" map of SoI, minus the India, and iirc Nubia too.

IMO since this is intended to be a modmodmod of SoI, we should use the original map of SoI

However, as told & adjusted from the post above me, the game should not extend over the 0 BC because after the world enters a Christianity phase, there's barely only Roman Empire in the west, Parthian empire in the center, and Kushana empire in the east.

On the post below, I will try to summarize the civ list suggestion.
Please, feel very free to fill in the blank (UU, UB, etc).

BRONZE AGE

Egypt


Sumer


Harappa


Elam


Akkad


Babylon


Hittite


IRON AGE

Phoenicia


Israel


Kush


Assyria


Sorry all.. the rest are deleted accidentally

There was a similar mod idea a while ago, unfortunately nothing became of it. You could look for the thread in the main RFC forum, there already was some interesting brainstorming.

Personally I think the mod shouldn't focus so much on Alexander, but instead on Mesopotamia and ealry antiquity, so maybe "The Cradle of Civilization" or something like that would be a better title. Accordingly, my timeframe would begin somewhere around 3000 BC. The end point is a matter of taste, but since RFC Classical World already covers the ... classical world, and has a much better map for that, the game should definitely end before 1 AD. If you want to keep in Alexander and the wars of the Diadochi, make it ~200 BC. That's when Roman power started to take over the Greeks and Asia Minor, and I don't think this scenario should model the Romans as well.

Anyway, for a civ list:

Africa: Egypt, Nubia (Kush)
Levant: Israel, Phoenicia
Asia Minor: Lydia, Mitanni (Hurrians), Hatti (Hittites), Urartu/Armenia, Ionian Greeks
Mesopotamia: Sumer/Akkad, Babylon, Assyria
Persia: Elam, Persia, Parthia
India: IVC, Mauryas

The late game, if it stretches so far, would feature Alexander's Macedonia as an unplayable civilization similar to the Portuguese in SoI. Later on, it would fracture into the playable Ptolemid, Seleucid and Antigonid factions. Greco-Bactria is another good civ imo. Also, Babylonia could be split into several civs for its different periods, similar to Egypt in SoI.

I think Hammurabi is a much better leaderhead than Gilgamesh for Babylonia. Just saying.
Also, one UHV for Assyria could be to control the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

I also think that Alexander's Macedonia probably shouldn't be able to win a domination victory.

Uh, Babylon shouldn't have Gilgamesh as a leader.
Babylon UHV ideas:
-Control Mesopatamia and the Levant by 539 BC
-Have at least 30000 culture in (???)
-Make Babylon the most cultured, largest city in the world in (???)
-Be the first to discover (?, ?, ?)

Summer UHV idea:
-Build 5 Ziggurats (which would either be their UB or would be a building only buildable in Mesopatamia), 5 (whatever the Sumerian religion was called) temples, and 5 (???) by (???)

Assyria UHV idea:
-Control Mesopatamia, the Levant, Egypt, and 5 other provinces by 671.

For the civs, I think it would be important to add an Ethiopian civ: Dʿmt(8th century BC- 5th century BC) or Axsum (if we keep the idea of the timeline going to 630AD, Axsum would be a better idea). There should also be a Yemeni civilization. Probably the Kingdom of Saba(8th century BC - 275 AD) (even the romans were interest in them). The Kingdom of Saba should be a rich agricultural civilization, but with low production.

Ziggurats should be the cathedrals of the Mesopotamian religion.

Leoreth said:

The late game, if it stretches so far, would feature Alexander's Macedonia as an unplayable civilization similar to the Portuguese in SoI.

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Nice!
I've forgotten that Portuguese and its unplayable invasive mechanic exist in SoI
The game should conclude with Alexander's death (323 BC) then.. there's barely nothing to be done after that years

DC123456789 said:

I think Hammurabi is a much better leaderhead than Gilgamesh for Babylonia. Just saying.

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Uh, Babylon shouldn't have Gilgamesh as a leader.

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I was copy-pasting and do not re-check what I copied hahaha

I also think that Alexander's Macedonia probably shouldn't be able to win a domination victory.

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Off course. Macedonia should not be playable at all.


Now, a question :

How do you add a vanilla civilization that does exist in-game but does not exist in SoI (like Hammurabi, for example) ? Should it use the J..? (forgotten, sorry) mechanic on how to add new civilization that was written in a .txt file?

BenZL43 said:

Nice!
I've forgotten that Portuguese and its unplayable invasive mechanic exist in SoI
The game should conclude with Alexander's death (323 BC) then.. there's barely nothing to be done after that years

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I wouldn't call the Wars of the Diadochi nothing

teriaky said:

For the civs, I think it would be important to add an Ethiopian civ: Dʿmt(8th century BC- 5th century BC) or Axsum (if we keep the idea of the timeline going to 630AD, Axsum would be a better idea). There should also be a Yemeni civilization. Probably the Kingdom of Saba(8th century BC - 275 AD) (even the romans were interest in them). The Kingdom of Saba should be a rich agricultural civilization, but with low production.

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Added Saba. No, Axum would not fit.
The problem with D'mt, that as far as I know they are dominated by the Sabaeans.. or in Civ term IMO, is a "vassal" of them

Leoreth said:

I wouldn't call the Wars of the Diadochi nothing

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Sure, but isn't its bad from game play perspective to add , like, four new civilization when the game is almost finished?