CG6 - Coalition Time

Alright, fresh off a victory from CG5, here's my latest.

Map: Usual. Large, Continents, 70%, everything regular. Made in-game.

Rivals: Again, usual.

Version: 1.14f. Sorry, it has to be 1.14 for you Europeans out there. However, this may be changed if it alienates too many players.

Civ: Up for debate.

Level: Emperor.

Victory: Domination but all are on.

Variant Rules: Here is where the fun begins!
- Anytime we want to declare war on another civilization, we must have at least half of the other known civilizaitions to join us in the war. So, for example, if we want to declare war on say Japan, and we know 8 other civs, we must have 4 join in a coalition with us. And for all you nitpickers, if we know an odd number, round up. All of this only applies when we are in a "free" government and it is post-ancient age.
- If another civ declares war on US, we must try as hard as we can to get at least half of the other known civs to join with us in a coalition. Obviously there may be times when we have to go it alone, but we must try. All of this applies when we are in a "free" government and it is post-ancient age.
- When I say "try as hard as we can" that means give them whatever they want to get them to sign an MA.
- We must have at least one coalition war in each age, not including ancient age. However, we can fight more then one war per age. If we fight more then one war per age, each war after the first must also be a coalition war. So, if we fight 2 wars in the Middle Age, they will BOTH be coalition wars. And if we fight 1 war in the Ancient age as a Despotism, it can be a unilateral war. And if we fight a war in the Industrial Age, it must be a coalition. Understand?
- We must always honorably declare war, ALWAYS.
- We must keep all peace treaties (so 20 turns between war).
- We must always stay in "free" governments. So our chain must be Despotism -> Republic -> Democracy.
- We must switch to free governments as soon as we get the tech, and no stalling, please. So, yes, that means war in Democracy!

Roster: Me
Jack Merchant
Aggie
T-Hawk ?
Arutha ?

Hope this isn't too harsh. I originally wanted a game where we play a sort of UN, but I realized that's all but impossible to do with AIs. So I settled for this coalition-type game. And, yes, it was influenced by current events.

I'll have the save up when we decide on a civ.

Sign me up if you'll have me

Did you notice we were running 50% luxes at the end of CG5 ?

I'm ok with any civ, as long as it isn't the Ottomans. How about America for added flavour ?

Originally posted by jack merchant

Did you notice we were running 50% luxes at the end of CG5 ?

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Oh yes. In Democracy we'll be running 80%! Still, its domination, so it should not be as bad. And of course I'll have you.

So... what happens if you get a good land-grab, or start on a landmass alone, and never decide you need to go to war? So much for the variant Perhaps this: you must declare war coalition-style at least once per age (that is, before acquiring the last required tech in each of the first three ages.)

Yeah I must admit, whenever I read of variant rules like this, I think that they must be written by players who rely on war as their main method of play. The only time you really really have to go to war is if you're playing on Deity and you're really cramped, and even then only sometimes. (or maybe if you otherwise get a truly bad start and have to get good land off others).

-Sirp.

Actually, I missed where it said that the players will be going for Domination, which does require war if you're above Chieftain Although you could just sit still until you built a thousand modern armors...

Oh uhh....yeah that is true T-Hawk, although it doesn't require war imminently, as you say. Ironically, it's rather easy for a "Builder's Game" to have domination and/or conquest as its victory goals.

-Sirp.

I'm in! Sirp and T-Hawk are correct, but that's just what I like about this game. We have to play our cards right. Last game got ugly at the end. We could postpone real war for a long time in this variant as well.

EDIT: Would be nice to play non-industrious for a change. Also religious seems to add an advantage: no anarchy towards democracy.

EDIT2: What if we have half of the world behind us with a MA and one of them decides to make peace. Must we get another MA at that point? If so, this would mean that that war will never end as soon as one civ makes peace. Here's an example:

We get 4 civs to have a MA against Persia. One makes peace after 10 turns. Now we have to get another to join. Ten turns later our MA with the other 3 civs end. We only have one MA left, not enough. Therefore we have to get 3 MA's again... endless cycle, until the victim is dead.

My advise: we need the amount of MA's at the start of the war. If you don't allow that CG, it's actually means: the whole world in a MA against a certain civ to prevent getting under 50%...

How about destroying those who dare break our deals with them ? That could make for one tangled web of alliances if we apply the coalition rule there, too.

Aggie has a point about choosing a non-industrious civ. That should certainly improve our playing skills. Taking that into account, I would be partial to the Arabs or the Spanish.

I like T-Hawk's idea:

you must declare war coalition-style at least once per age (that is, before acquiring the last required tech in each of the first three ages

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However, this would perhaps be easier on a pangaea (where you don't have to go after a direct neighbour). Also, if we apply this, we could use a militaristic civ - maybe the Aztecs for an early infrastructure-building GA? The Celtic UU is too expensive to build on Emperor.

A coalition war in the ancient age That sounds too heavy. The AI will be racing through that age, with us far behind, me thinks. What about coalition must be formed once per age, expect the ancient age?

Originally posted by Aggie
EDIT2: What if we have half of the world behind us with a MA and one of them decides to make peace. Must we get another MA at that point? If so, this would mean that that war will never end as soon as one civ makes peace. Here's an example:

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I think at that point, we should try to get them in, but if we can't, its OK. As long as we have half the world to start the war.

@ T-Hawk: I like your idea, but are you saying we don't have to have more then 1 coalition per age? So, if we have, say, 3 wars in the Industrial age, only one needs to be a coalition? Because I don't really like that idea, to be honest...

How about minimum one coalition per age except for the Ancient age, but in Middle-Modern every war must be a coalition? So, if we have, say, 1 war in middle, 2 in industrial, and 3 in modern, each of them must be a coalition? Does that sound good?

How about changing the requirement to coalition warfare as soon as we're a republic ? Evil and bloodthirsty despots don't build coalitions. Also, in despotism buying alliances may eat up most of our spare gpt, thus setting us behind on tech.
This means the first war which will be prosecuted ancient age-style, but I don't see a problem with that. Look at RBP6 - they went to war with chariots there Of course we may not yet be of their level, but we are a playing a lower difficulty.
T-hawk suggested at least one coalition per age. I think we can manage that if we have one war after republic and then another one for the medieval age proper. If we are remotely succesful, chances are we won't even reach the modern age if we go for domination. In CG5, all we would have needed to do to get domination was settle Spain, switch to China a little faster and build bunches of libraries.

Originally posted by jack merchant
How about changing the requirement to coalition warfare as soon as we're a republic ? Evil and bloodthirsty despots don't build coalitions. Also, in despotism buying alliances may eat up most of our spare gpt, thus setting us behind on tech.
This means the first war which will be prosecuted ancient age-style, but I don't see a problem with that. Look at RBP6 - they went to war with chariots there Of course we may not yet be of their level, but we are a playing a lower difficulty.
T-hawk suggested at least one coalition per age. I think we can manage that if we have one war after republic and then another one for the medieval age proper. If we are remotely succesful, chances are we won't even reach the modern age if we go for domination. In CG5, all we would have needed to do to get domination was settle Spain, switch to China a little faster and build bunches of libraries.

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Good point. So here are the new rules:

- We must build a coalition with all the coalition rules as soon as we switch to a free government. We must switch to a free government ASAP. We must have at least one coalition war in each Age (not including Ancient), but each war in each Age (not including Ancient) must be a coalition war.

Does everyone agree on these? Now we just need to decide on a civ...

EDIT: Aggie, T-Hawk, Sirp, you guys want in?

- government: Republic is a "free" government, and much better then Democracy if you're planning on warring. So, unless the variant clearly states that democracy *must* be researched ASAP and revolted to, what would be the point of using it?

- coalition: are MA the only acceptable forms of alliances, or could MPPs used to the same effect ? (I usually much prefer alliance thru a triggered MPP than a pro forma MA, but that's just me ).

Originally posted by cgannon64


Good point. So here are the new rules:

- We must build a coalition with all the coalition rules as soon as we switch to a free government. We must switch to a free government ASAP. We must have at least one coalition war in each Age (not including Ancient), but each war in each Age (not including Ancient) must be a coalition war.

Does everyone agree on these? Now we just need to decide on a civ...

EDIT: Aggie, T-Hawk, Sirp, you guys want in?

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I agree and I'm in!!

Arutha, I think the idea is to make war in a democracy. Now obviously that is a horrible government to make war in, but that's the point of the variant. I have no particular preference for MPPs or MAs, except I think MAs tend to be cheaper. Also, the disadvantage of MPPs is that you lose control over who you go to war with and may end up breaking trade deals.
May we tempt you, or do you confine yourself to deity level ?

Originally posted by Arutha
- government: Republic is a "free" government, and much better then Democracy if you're planning on warring. So, unless the variant clearly states that democracy *must* be researched ASAP and revolted to, what would be the point of using it?

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Yep, must be researched ASAP and switched to ASAP. I know, it will suck, but its a challenge.

- coalition: are MA the only acceptable forms of alliances, or could MPPs used to the same effect ? (I usually much prefer alliance thru a triggered MPP than a pro forma MA, but that's just me ).

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We could use MPPs, but I don't reccomend it, as it will drag us into other wars...

I'm a definite maybe as for joining in. I am interested, but am trying to work out some computer issues. I'm often away from my only computer that can play Civ 3 for 2-5 days at a time; been trying to get another one set up (stupid CD drive on this one machine won't read my PTW disc) or a laptop that can play it. If you want to work with/around that, I'll be in. Patching back to 1.14 to play this isn't a problem.

As for which civ: we could either pick one for the theme, pick one suited for this game, or pick one UNsuited for the game for challenge. The first would be America or England. The second would be any of the religious/militaristics; quick swaps, temple-rushing, and militaristic is obvious. The third could be England, France, Russia, Carthage, and so on...

I like the idea of picking a civ unsuited for the game; the English would do particularly well as historically, they have been instrumental in forming coalitions to prevent one country from dominating continental Europe. They did so against the Habsburgs, Louis XIV, Napoleon, the German Empire and in WW2. Call them the quintessential coalition-civ They have my vote.

I'd have to agree with the bad civ suited for the theme. America or England definetely come to mind. (Or not America...)

England sounds nice, anyone else agree?