Pests

Hydromancerx · Sep 30, 2012

Pests are a new feature that takes advantage of the auto-build function. They primary are used to give :mad:

and disease (which indirectly causes). :yuck:

On my todo list I have ....

1. ~~Rats~~
2. ~~Pigeons~~
3. ~~Seagulls~~
4. ~~Crows~~
5. ~~Roaches~~
---
6. ~~Termites~~
7. ~~Mosquitoes~~
8. ~~Moths~~
9. ~~Gophers~~
10. ~~Fleas~~
---
11. ~~Ticks~~
12. ~~Raccoons~~
13. ~~Flies~~
14. ~~Locust~~
15. ~~Lice~~
---
16. ~~Wasps~~
17. ~~Ants~~
18. ~~Aphids~~
19. ~~Bedbugs~~
20. ~~Slugs~~

Note that not all be be the same such as Termites will give -1 :hammers:

.

Please post if you have ideas or suggestions. I have only done the first 5.

Update:

Hydromancerx · Sep 30, 2012

Re-posting here.

Dancing Hoskuld said:
Pests provide us with an opportunity to address the later game health issue ie not enough health without overloading the early eras. In my view none of the current ones (Cockroaches, Crows, Pigeons, Rats or Seagulls) should come into affect until you have sufficient urbanisation, Below are some comments and suggestions.

Cockroaches - until 10 years ago I would have said what are they. The Australian cockroach is not adapted to urban dwelling and the other types had not reached Canberra or not gotten a foot hold because of the "harsh" winters and small population size.

Suggestion
- require tech Sedentary Lifestyle
- require pop size 6
- not in cities with TERRAIN_SNOW or TERRAIN_TUNDRA until tech Sanitation. This can be achieved by having an "Un-cockroach" building that requires those terrains and goes obsolete at Sanitation

Crows - what are these. OK we do have a few in Australia, not sure they are pests yet.

Suggestion
- require tech Sedentary Lifestyle
- require pop size 12
- also latitude limit

Pigeons these were a source of food even the wild ones until the modern era.

Suggestion
- require tech Railway or Refrigeration or later
- require pop size 12
- also latitude limit
Otherwise add food because of them and to poachers camp, hunting lodge etc.

Rats only the green rat was used as food and it was replaced by chickens when they were introduces during the "Age of Exploration".

Suggestion
- require tech Sedentary Lifestyle
- require pop size 6
- similar terrain limits as cockroaches.

Seagulls again they were food even the wild ones.

Suggestion
- require tech Sanitation
- require pop size 12
- also latitude limit

ls612 said:
@DH:

I like all of those ideas, but since you suggested them Hydro will never implement them.

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I had hopped he had done mosquitoes and rabbits. The first so I could do "Disease - Malaria" but now that we have the auto build feature I can do it anyway.

AIAndy said:
That can be easily expressed in the ConstructCondition without an "Un-cockroach" building.

strategyonly said:
Play nice now

Hydromancerx · Sep 30, 2012

- require tech Sedentary Lifestyle
- require pop size 6
- not in cities with TERRAIN_SNOW or TERRAIN_TUNDRA until tech Sanitation. This can be achieved by having an "Un-cockroach" building that requires those terrains and goes obsolete at Sanitation

What do you mean an "Un-cockroach" building?

- also latitude limit

What should be the latitude limit?

ls612 said:
@DH:

I like all of those ideas, but since you suggested them Hydro will never implement them.

I agree with more of DH's suggestions than he agrees with mine. However most of the time we end up with a compromise solution that incorporates both our ideas.

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 30, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
What do you mean an "Un-cockroach" building?

I forgot that we can add all sorts of conditions to buildings now so we don't need to have a special "turn off" building.

Most animals have a limit to how close they go to the poles that is all I was getting at with the latitude limit. eg a limit at 65-70 degrees for pigeons and crows, and 70-75 for gulls and rats.

ls612 · Sep 30, 2012

I agree with more of DH's suggestions than he agrees with mine. However most of the time we end up with a compromise solution that incorporates both our ideas.

Yeah, I was just joking around. I'm thinking that we really don't need more unhealthy and unhappy until the mid-Classical era, so perhaps the pests should be triggered by city size?

Dancing Hoskuld · Sep 30, 2012

I am hoping to move some of the unhealthiness away from terrain to disease and pests if only to stop the chopping down of trees.

AIAndy · Oct 1, 2012

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I forgot that we can add all sorts of conditions to buildings now so we don't need to have a special "turn off" building.

Most animals have a limit to how close they go to the poles that is all I was getting at with the latitude limit. eg a limit at 65-70 degrees for pigeons and crows, and 70-75 for gulls and rats.

Gameplay wise that is actually an interesting balancing factor for making cities in cold climate more competetive.

LumenAngel · Oct 1, 2012

In the other way, I never see pigeon, crow or seagul in Sahel...

But I think there are some ways to go against them : having cat (it's a ressource nwo) can lower malus from rats or pigeon. Some tech like Sanitation or Ancient Medecie can lower some health malus and some others like Modern medecine obsolete them.

Thunderbrd · Oct 1, 2012

I'm liking this idea. And liking some of the implementations.

A few points:
1) I've been looking into some ways to adjust animals so that the units that represent them can act in very similar ways so perhaps I'll have to abandon some of those plans but before I give up on these ideas entirely, I'd like to explore how the two systems could co-operate. More on that in a bit.

2) Crows as pests? I really do love Crows and have a hard time seeing them as negatively impacting human habitations at all. They actually feed quite voraciously on many small critters we DO deem as pests and could be considered, as a result, an ANTI-pest. They probably do bring a few possible problems with them as any human society co-habitating animal does, but I'd think they'd be a net help over a net harm.

Hydromancerx · Oct 1, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
2) Crows as pests? I really do love Crows and have a hard time seeing them as negatively impacting human habitations at all. They actually feed quite voraciously on many small critters we DO deem as pests and could be considered, as a result, an ANTI-pest. They probably do bring a few possible problems with them as any human society co-habitating animal does, but I'd think they'd be a net help over a net harm.

Ever heard of Scarecrows? Crows/Ravens are very opportunistic, which means they will take advantage of easy food such as crops. Likewise crows can spread West Nile virus, Bird Flu and lice.

Don't get me wrong I think Crows are very cool animals. But the fact they compete for resources with humans and can potentially spread diseases that can harm humans makes wild crows a pest.

One could also call feral dogs, cats, pigs, etc "pests" too.

12padams · Oct 1, 2012

Since I run the latest svn version which I updated to today from v26 patch 1 I had the pests added into all of my cities (currently medieval era). Right now I find them a little annoying...

I mean take crime for example. I love the crime system because its fun to build anti crime buildings and watch the crime amount go down which in turn makes the negative crime effects go down. I just over took an empires capital city and the crime rate was 254 and everything in the city was unstable. It was really fun to balance everything and stabalising the city so they wouldn't want to "return to their motherland".

Still the thing that annoys me is pests... They really are pests! I am fine with them in the game as long as there are ways to remove the pests. For modern time periods you could have pest control units or anti pest features in civics. Maybe well build houses or something that stops pests coming in or for future eras you could have force fields around the city's and ultra cleaning robots to stop any filth and pests from causing unhealthy ness to your city's.

Do you plan to make pests stoppable?

Thunderbrd · Oct 1, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
Ever heard of Scarecrows? Crows/Ravens are very opportunistic, which means they will take advantage of easy food such as crops. Likewise crows can spread West Nile virus, Bird Flu and lice.

Don't get me wrong I think Crows are very cool animals. But the fact they compete for resources with humans and can potentially spread diseases that can harm humans makes wild crows a pest.

One could also call feral dogs, cats, pigs, etc "pests" too.

Points well made and well received.

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 1, 2012

Hydromancerx said:
I agree with more of DH's suggestions than he agrees with mine. However most of the time we end up with a compromise solution that incorporates both our ideas.

I thought it was the other way round.

Perhaps we just improve each others thinking and the end result.

12padams said:
Still the thing that annoys me is pests... They really are pests! I am fine with them in the game as long as there are ways to remove the pests. For modern time periods you could have pest control units or anti pest features in civics. Maybe well build houses or something that stops pests coming in or for future eras you could have force fields around the city's and ultra cleaning robots to stop any filth and pests from causing unhealthy ness to your city's.

Do you plan to make pests stoppable?

Pests are very new, less than a week old. It takes awhile to add all the stuff in a new system. The malaria stuff I added yesterday have not the health part yet.

ls612 · Oct 4, 2012

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I thought it was the other way round. Perhaps we just improve each others thinking and the end result.

Pests are very new, less than a week old. It takes awhile to add all the stuff in a new system. The malaria stuff I added yesterday have not the health part yet.

What other diseases are you planning on adding linked to Pests? And when do you plan on having these in and in a reasonably complete state? I'm just asking because I'm trying to figure out when a good time for a freeze would be, its already been a month since we released V26.

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 4, 2012

Currently I have Malaria not using pests because Mosquitoes have not yet been implemented. Since I am away again for a week or so starting Sunday or Monday I doubt I will get anything more done on this.

If Mosquitoes are done (req jungle, flood plains or marsh) then

1) those three terrains will need their unhealthiness reduced.

2) My disease - malaria would be ale to use Mosquitoes and latitude limits.

3) I still need to set up the global warming buildings and the counter or health buildings.

Nimek · Oct 4, 2012

@DH

Global Warming is one of the biggest scums of our time
Please dont rebuild it.
It works fine (spreads fallout now)

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 5, 2012

Nimek said:
@DH

Global Warming is one of the biggest scums of our time
Please dont rebuild it.
It works fine (spreads fallout now)

I am not changing global warming at all. There is an event that spreads malaria to cities outside the tropics/sub-tropics and I just need to support that.

Thunderbrd · Oct 5, 2012

Curious... is Malaria at all contractible between humans? I don't think so so I haven't had much feedback there quite happy to see it come in without needing to consider how to adapt to it at all.

AIAndy · Oct 5, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
Curious... is Malaria at all contractible between humans? I don't think so so I haven't had much feedback there quite happy to see it come in without needing to consider how to adapt to it at all.

The protists that cause Malaria require Anopheles mosquitos as vector to transfer the disease from one human to another (and the sexual part of their life cycle happens there).

Dancing Hoskuld · Oct 5, 2012

Thunderbrd said:
Curious... is Malaria at all contractible between humans? I don't think so so I haven't had much feedback there quite happy to see it come in without needing to consider how to adapt to it at all.

Malaria is not contagious human-human. I have tried to map its effects to reality which is that the bigger the population the bigger the over all problem by both slowing population growth and reduced production.

Pests

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King

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Prince

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