[WIP] Project Civ: A Quality-Oriented Civ Pack

Irkalla

Irkalla

ENTP POWWWEEEEEER
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
1,009
Location
Way down around Vicksburg
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Who We Are
Spoiler :
Irkalla (Justin Bryant)
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A Mississippian hobbyist coder and games designer with strong interests in language, history, and cultures. Currently unemployed and uneducated, he seeks to take advantage of the fact that his generation is the first generation of Mississippians that have higher education available to them. A staunch Libertarian, he eventually wishes to escape Mississippi and live in a place where his talents and gifts are not only respected, but would be able to be put to use as well as a place whose people and government enshrine religious, cultural, and civil liberty. He likes debate, hunting, Macabre, Criminal Drama, Bass Guitar, Cooking, Fado, Flamenco, and Politics. It might also be of note that he's a smoker, and isn't that bad of a shot.


Leugi (Miguel Soliz)
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Bolivian Graphic Designer with huge interests in Cultural Diversity and Videogames. Utopical to a not-so-healthy degree, his dream is to use Design as a ways of promoting interculturality and destroying discrimination. He likes Art Nouveau, Art Decó, Jazz, odd music, Italian food, over-analyzing stuff and textiles.










Player Playstyle Chart Legend
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The Sumerians




Spoiler :
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The Spartans

Version Experimental 1
Direct Download
Steam Workshop



Spoiler :
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This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivs 3.0 Unported License.

Contact Irkalla to be released from any of these terms.​
 
I like the idea, but I prefer modding with G&K, because most mods are switching to only work with the expansion pack. If this was made with G&K, you could add specific pantheon beliefs such as God of Fire (unless of course there is already a belief called this, idk) and the ziggurat could give faith too. Interesting concept, though. Civpack mods do seem to leave out some details occasionally, but you seem to have done your research.
 
I feel you've already did more work than you had to. Thanks to the Wonders of the Ancient World scenario, Firaxis already made buttons for Sumer, the Vulture unit, and the Ziggurat; unit graphics for the Vulture; and a map (most of which have been removed from the scenario and posted as a separate download by modders).

Another thing, it's very lofty to say you're going to include a full 3D leaderhead, but people have been trying to do that since launch and failed and there's no guarantee the release of the DLL will give any added ability in this department. Added to this the fact that you yourself can't do the modeling. I would lower my expectations in this regard.

Finally, you're making it for Vanilla which is good in a way, but most of the better modders you're probably looking to recruit have permanently moved on to G&K simply because it has a lot more options in regard to everything.

I do really like your ideas, though, and having a decent Sumer mod for Vanilla (that doesn't need the Wonders DLC) would be great. The only good quality Sumer civ available at the moment only works in G&K and needs the Wonders DLC as a dependency (so an option for just the Vanilla base game is missing and has been requested).
 
1) We don't know how to import music for leaders at the moment.
2) We don't know how to get a working 3D leaderhead at the moment.

If anyone knows the answers to those two questions, than this is easily possible.
 
Putmalk said:
1) We don't know how to import music for leaders at the moment.
2) We don't know how to get a working 3D leaderhead at the moment.

If anyone knows the answers to those two questions, than this is easily possible.
Click to expand...

The people in this thread are right, for the most part. Yes we do know how to have a custom 3D Leaderhead, but as far as I know, It's only been done using another leader's scene. This means, at this moment, that we could have Eannatum standing in front of a burning Djenne and call it Umma.

I'm making a lot of assumptions in assuming that DLL source will allow us to add leader music and custom leader scenes. However, even if it doesn't directly do that, I'm almost certain that it will give us the ability to play streamed audio files, which we could then expose to Lua, and then from there hook that into the dawn of man and declare war events. If those events don't exist, I'm almost certainly sure that they will be in the DLL source, which we can then expose to Lua.

About Gods & Kings, the primary reason for me going vanilla is because I don't own the Expansion. Even if I did, you'd see a release for both versions, independent of any DLC and balanced for each one.

You're right, turing machine. Your expectations should be low; Id est, expecting nothing more than a civ that relies on firaxis assets until we find people that would be willing to do these things.

It's funny, but I originally planned for the Ziggurat to replace the Courthouse. I later changed my mind, because it would force one into a wide game with what is, at the moment, a culture based civ... Well, if you wanted to use your UB, that is. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, where is this DLC that adds Sumer in a scenario? Where can I find it, or information about it? I wonder how close I was with my stuff to what Firaxis did...
 
Irkalla said:
The people in this thred are right, for the most part. Yes we do know how to have a custom 3D Leaderhead, but as far as I know, It's only been done using another leader's scene. This means, at this moment, that we could have Eannatum standing in front of a burning Djenne and call it Umma.
Click to expand...

Actually, I don't believe it's been done period not even in the way you describe.

Irkalla said:
You're right, turing machine. Your expectations should be low; Id est, expecting nothing more than a civ that relies on firaxis assets until we find people that would be willing to do these things.
Click to expand...

I'm actually confused by this. I said your expectations should be low specifically in regard to implementing 3D leaderheads as I believe it has not been done in any form by anyone. It's not a matter of finding someone that is willing, and I wasn't talking about any other aspect of your mod outside of the leaderhead.

However, you said your goal was to make something with assets comparable to Firaxis' assets. So why would relying on assets made by them be bad, when they've made ones (icons and 3D model) in regard to the unit and building you hope to implement?
 
turingmachine said:
Actually, I don't believe it's been done period not even in the way you describe.



I'm actually confused by this. I said your expectations should be low specifically in regard to implementing 3D leaderheads as I believe it has not been done in any form by anyone. It's not a matter of finding someone that is willing, and I wasn't talking about any other aspect of your mod outside of the leaderhead.

However, you said your goal was to make something with assets comparable to Firaxis' assets. So why would relying on assets made by them be bad, when they've made ones (icons and 3D model) in regard to the unit and building you hope to implement?
Click to expand...

attachment.php


Note that this Alfred the Great LH is the work of CaptainBlinky and Lemmy. Also note that at that moment, it replaces a leader. Whether it can be done for a custom leader is unknown, but I figure it wouldn't be more than making a custom scene XML for the leader.


Also, I'd love to avoid using DLC stuff as much as possible. Besides, while the Sumer in the scenario adds Ziggurats, It does not add Vultures. It adds something called Phalanx, which is also a suitable UU for Sumer. They showed the first known use of the phalanx formation, which suggests that they fielded the first professional armies in history.

Besides, I have plans for another Unique Unit named Phalanx.
 
Irkalla said:
While the Sumer in the scenario adds Ziggurats, It does not add Vultures. It adds something called Phalanx, which is also a suitable UU for Sumer. They showed the first known use of the phalanx formation, which suggests that they fielded the first professional armies in history.
Click to expand...

The DLC calls the unit "Phalanx" because the Sumerians never actually called the unit "Vulture". The name Vulture comes from a Stele that depicts spearman surrounded by vultures, but it was not an official name of anything in the Sumerian military. Even "Phalanx" is obviously not meant to be an official name for any Sumerian unit (as Phalanx is a distinctly Greek word), but probably chosen as the descriptor as the historical "Vulture" would have used something akin to the Phalanx Formation.

Anyway, if you look at the unit's art assets it is clearly meant to be the Vulture unit you had in mind (just not named as such as, again, that wasn't a real name). The 3D model is Sumerian garb and the unit's in-game icon is even an actual vulture.
 
Irkalla said:
Yes. See this thread.
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If you've read that thread you'll know the last real update from the OP was about 2 years ago and nothing was ever released in those two years. It's possible they got something to work or it's equally possible they hit some hurdle and were never able to finish it. However, the fact that, again, seemingly no progress has been made by anyone else in the last two years isn't a good sign.

Regardless, the OP was also a professional computer artist (not something you're going to easily recruit for your own project), and has been absent from the forums for almost a year.
 
turingmachine said:
If you've read that thread you'll know the last real update from the OP was about 2 years ago and nothing was ever released in those two years. It's possible they got something to work or it's equally possible they hit some hurdle and were never able to finish it. However, the fact that, again, seemingly no progress has been made by anyone else in the last two years isn't a good sign.

Regardless, the OP was also a professional computer artist (not something you're going to easily recruit for your own project), and has been absent from the forums for almost a year.
Click to expand...

That's correct. He and Lemmy are making indie games as far as I know, and they've gotten a greenlit project on steam. That's where they've been.

And yes, I agree. But one doesn't have to be a professional to be good at anything.

Also, I know the unit wasn't called a vulture. I don't know what they look like in game because I do not have the DLC. I know nothing about how they feel in game, what their colours are, or anything visual. All I know is that they used Gilgamesh (re-used Harun) for their leader, had a UB called Ziggurat, had a UU called Phalanx, and had a UA similar to mine, except instead of great scientists, I give a great artist, and instead of no terrain costs near rivers, I give a small increase to great people rates.

Scratch that, I'm a dumbass. They carry spears, though. Yes, the Sumerian warriors of the time did use spears, but I'm quite sure they were called spear bearers and were not in the phalanx. That is, they were just the spearman that every civ gets. From what I know, they seemed to be very fond of shock weapons... Also, holy poo, damn near the same colours. But dat Assyro-Babylonian civ symbol. Also, are those wooden shields? Heh. I'm liking the way they did the ziggurat icon, and I may emulate that. I should work on that immediately. Also, I love how the Hittite chariots only have two guys in them, neither of which is bearing a shield. (You guys are probably going to like what I have in store for the Hittites, but that's a story for another day. Suffice it to say, that because of them being a fairly even match to a nation that was more advanced than them in most every aspect, the Hittites will be a good choice for anyone that hates Babylon or Korea.)

I decided to call them Vultures because it's more of something that historians have referred to them as, but only in a poetic sense. When someone who knows much about Sumerian history thinks about Sumerian warriors, the Stele of Vultures is sure to come to mind.

However, I could have just as well called them Garradum or Gardu. But those wouldn't be readily identifiable to players, they're Sumerian words for Warriors or Soldiers.

Speaking of the Sumerian language, I should probably work on some of the voice lines to put on here as teasers :mischief:
 
As I am an amateur computer artist (that means also composing :)) I'll think I might try playing with that Sumerian Music Motif and see if I can manage to compose anything suitable for a civilization theme. I consider myself pretty good at orchestrating but I'm very bad when doing my own melodies so doing a musical piece from an existing melody could be very interesting.

I'll try to do something like the themes of Babylon and Carthage, and post it here if I'll manage to do something good enough. :)
 
Hypereon said:
As I am an amateur computer artist (that means also composing :)) I'll think I might try playing with that Sumerian Music Motif and see if I can manage to compose anything suitable for a civilization theme. I consider myself pretty good at orchestrating but I'm very bad when doing my own melodies so doing a musical piece from an existing melody could be very interesting.

I'll try to do something like the themes of Babylon and Carthage, and post it here if I'll manage to do something good enough. :)
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I had in mind should I try to learn how to VST and stuff... Going with a Punic/Babylonian type of theme. I look forward to seeing what you can do.

Are you a mind-reader?
 
Irkalla said:
Are you a mind-reader?
Click to expand...

No I'm not... ;)

Because the musical motif doesn't contain any other information than just the melody, I have had to take much influence for the Babylonian and Carthaginian themes. I've been thinking to make a ancient and mystical-feeling piece with orchestral classical influence especially in the end like in many other civ themes.

At the moment I haven't composed for a year (thanks for studies), so this makes a good reason for practising. I do this mainly for my own joy, but I will post if it's good enough for usage.

Of course it would be great to have other people with composing skills around to make their own versions, because I can't guarantee anything at this moment.
 
Hypereon said:
No I'm not... ;)

Because the musical motif doesn't contain any other information than just the melody, I have had to take much influence for the Babylonian and Carthaginian themes. I've been thinking to make a ancient and mystical-feeling piece with orchestral classical influence especially in the end like in many other civ themes.

At the moment I haven't composed for a year (thanks for studies), so this makes a good reason for practising. I do this mainly for my own joy, but I will post if it's good enough for usage.

Of course it would be great to have other people with composing skills around to make their own versions, because I can't guarantee anything at this moment.
Click to expand...

Is anything ever really guaranteed? It's best to come in with plans, because plans aren't guarantees. Even though some people take them for such.

That said though, I'm glad that I seem to have given you a good enough excuse to persue one of your hobbies again.

But yeah, you're exactly right, now that you say that, that's probably why I thought of those two themes. I know stuff about music, but I don't know why. Music is more of an instinct for me than a science. But yeah, the Hymn to Nikkal and Hurrian Hymn no. 6 don't really provide much either besides the melody. Both of these tend to be called Hurrian Hymn no. 6, but the top one is the hurrian hymn if I remember correctly, and the bottom one is the Hymn to the Moon Goddess Nikhal, Wife of Yarikh. Not sure why Hymn to Nikhal gets called a Hurrian Hymn, I'm almost certain its origins are Ugaritic. Another thing of interest is that Nikhal wasn't even associated with the moon, she was actually the wife of the moon god, Yarikh. She was associated with fertility and fruit and orchards and stuff. Her Sumerian equivalent, Ningal, was associated with the moon, however.


Link to video.


Link to video.

EDIT: That feel when you accidentally merge layers on something and then save it as PSD when closing... Gonna have to remake the map from scratch, as I needed to edit the territory. That's okay though, I needed to remake it ANYWAY because I didn't make a big version for the DOM screen.
 
Oh boy. Mixed up titles indicate that the motif I had picked out was actually an Egyptian fragment... I knew something was off about it. Oh well.

The only thing I've been able to find that's even remotely arguably Sumerian in nature is from the dynasty of Isin (The very last dynasty before Hammurabi conquered Sumer,) and appears to be instructions for a stringed instrument to accompany a reading of a written work celebrating a leader that gave them a law code. It also goes through a walk, up and down a scale. This suggests the Sumerians may have been fond of a certain one: The dominant scale... Or Mixolydian mode. Whichever you call it.

Input would be appreciated! I'm personally thinking of just sticking with the current motif. It's the best thing we have at the moment, and doesn't sound too awfully Egyptian. We could go with one of the remaining Hurrian hymns... They'd be too young to be Sumerian, but meh.

One of the pitfalls of trying to cover a civilization that's older than history, I guess. Life struggles.

Anyway, I'm going to get to work on more pressing stuff. We've got until the fall patch to figure all this stuff out.
 
I have a question for you: How did you get your civ icon looking so... firaxis-like? It looks just like one that firaxis would've made. If I try to do it it looks really... bleh.
 
crawf0rd said:
I have a question for you: How did you get your civ icon looking so... firaxis-like? It looks just like one that firaxis would've made. If I try to do it it looks really... bleh.
Click to expand...

First off, thanks for your compliments. What do you think about the map? Compare it to Rome's.

Closely analyze firaxis's icons and formulate each step you'll have to go through. Take apart the icon in your mind and note what happens in each step. This is what I do anytime I want to try to emulate something.

I honestly can't tell you what I did, because I don't remember. I'll do the mental decompiling in my mind though, and tell you what I can come up with.

EDIT: Okay, here's what I can remember. It's in the spoiler. Hope it helps.

Spoiler :
Alright, so the first thing you want to do is get your icon's shape. It took about 3 or 4 iterations of this for me to get the shape I wanted. I wish I could find those past iterations to show you, but I think they're lost.

Now you need to figure out your colours. For my icon, I relied on past civ games to draw inspiration. The colours I chose are ROUGHLY the ones they had from Civ 4, but with slight modifications to make them a bit more... Palatable?

Now, you make the background for your icon. Just make a circular selection of whatever size suits your best, but try to be something that's larger than 255px and a power of 4. I chose a 256 px circle as my size. I use photoshop, so I took out my burn tool and made a burn on the left side of the bottom-right quadrant of the circle. I imagine you can, in other editors, just take and make a black mark and then play with the transparency and layer styles. Make sure you brush is very soft.

Now, you want to place your logo into the icon. Make sure it's centered, but don't kill yourself trying to do so.

It's time to make the light cast down on it. Take a circular selection that's the size of your initial selection and then some more, and you'll want to place it so the bottom of the selection is roughly on the horizon, but make sure you shift the selection to the left a bit. Take a firaxis icon or my icon and draw a grid over it to see what I mean. Since I use photoshop, I filled the selection with a gradient from perfect white to perfect transparency, top to bottom. I then took this and set the layer style to overlay. Towards the bottom of the shine, you may or may not need to soften the edge up with a very soft eraser. If there's a distinct hard edge, soften it up. This may or may not be enough shine. If it's too much, turn down your fill. If it's too little, duplicate the layer and check if the shine is enough. You know what to do from here.

Now, you should make a ring around your icon. I think I made mine 5 pixels at 256px. Don't worry, if it's too much, just let the alpha channel clip it off in the icon atlas. this should just be a ring of solid background color.

Now for your inner glow. You'll want to take and select the inside of the ring you just made, make a new layer, and then make a white, 1 pixel stroke on the INSIDE of that selection. Once again, I chose the overlay layer style. If it's too prominent, change your fill. For reference, I have mine a 14%. Now you'll want to duplicate this layer and apply a gaussian blur to it. How much you'll need depends on your colour. Just eyeball it. Yet again, I choose to overlay this. Given that you have a dark colour, your shine should be transparent enough to allow the glow to be noticed through it.

These were roughly the steps I followed. Your mileage may vary.
 
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