Civ Suggestion: Polynesia

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Locutus_Morti

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After some inspiration from one of the Israel threads, I decided to brainstorm a bit for Polynesia. I don't think that we'd have to redo the map to fit them in, although they'd be of little significance. Here's what I came up with.

Polynesia

Spawn: 700AD
  • Unique Unit: Canoe: Can enter Ocean tiles adjacent to Coast tiles
    Spoiler :
    Replaces Galley


    • [*]Strength: 1
      [*]Movement: 2
      [*]Cost: 40:hammers:
      [*]Cargo Space: 1
      [*]Can enter Ocean Tiles



  • Unique Building: Moai Statue:
    Spoiler :
    Replaces Pagan Temple, +1 food/water tile, unlimited priest +2 Priest

  • Unique Power: The Power of Tribalism: All specialists produce +1 Hammer
    Spoiler :
    The Power of Migration: For every 2 foreign contacts you maintain, Sea tiles provide 1 Hammer (Works up to 4 contacts). Sea resources provide 1 extra Hammer.

  • Unique Historical Victory:
    1. Have 5 cities by 1200AD
      Control New Zealand, Hawaii, and Easter Island by 1200 AD

    2. Control 5 Fish Resources by 1500
      Control a total of 8 sea resources by 1500

    3. Allow no European colonies in Polynesia, Australia, New Zealand, or Hawaii by 1800


Their core area would be Polynesia, and their historical area would be Eastern Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii, and Easter Island. Polynesia would have to be considered a New World Civilization, so as to prevent conquerors. The fact that they're situated on islands should prevent them from receiving conquerors on their core islands as well.

Any tips or suggestions are welcome.
 
This works.

1) It occupies a space that is not previously cluttered/contested by numerous powers.
2) Before anyone wants to pull out the "insignificant culture" card, Polynesian cultures occupy a wide swathe of the Earth, if scattered, that deserve significant attention.

As for Polynesia and its associated gameplay problems, it mostly comes down to Hammers.
We want to help Polynesia compensate for their Production-poor environment,
but be able to balance it so that you can't just settle Australia and use Hammer bonuses from a UP to just laugh at everything that comes your way.
If we give them a "Hammers from Sea tile" UP, it would effectively be giving them The Great Cothon effect for every city.
I think I can streamline that.

Unnamed UP:

For every 2 foreign contacts you maintain, Sea tiles provide 1 Hammer (Works up to 4 contacts). Sea resources provide 1 extra Hammer.

^I think that could be improved on.
 
Sounds great; just a few comments.

1: The moai statue would work really well, except that it will expire too soon. There should be a similar building which lasts until at least the middle of the Industrial Age, if not forever.

2: There should be a TON of fish, clam, crab, whale resources nearby. This way they can obtain some other resources by trading. Otherwise they end up with too little resources to compete. Also, these will provide plenty of food, to make up for the farms and windmills they can't build.
 
Tomorrow's Dawn said:
This works.

1) It occupies a space that is not previously cluttered/contested by numerous powers.
2) Before anyone wants to pull out the "insignificant culture" card, Polynesian cultures occupy a wide swathe of the Earth, if scattered, that deserve significant attention.

As for Polynesia and its associated gameplay problems, it mostly comes down to Hammers.
We want to help Polynesia compensate for their Production-poor environment,
but be able to balance it so that you can't just settle Australia and use Hammer bonuses from a UP to just laugh at everything that comes your way.
If we give them a "Hammers from Sea tile" UP, it would effectively be giving them The Great Cothon effect for every city.
I think I can streamline that.

Unnamed UP:

For every 2 foreign contacts you maintain, Sea tiles provide 1 Hammer (Works up to 4 contacts). Sea resources provide 1 extra Hammer.

^I think that could be improved on.
Click to expand...

The problem is that until the Renaissance, the UP is worthless (how are they supposed to meet other civs before Astronomy?) And the shortage of :hammers: is most acute at the start of the game.




A more general problem is that they can not improve their yields through workers and technology like every other civ. It is very difficult to compensate them without overdoing it.

HOWEVER, if it can be worked out, it will be really helpful.
 
I'm on board with this idea. It's always so sad to see Polynesia completely empty by the year 2000, as no one seems to be too interested in colonizing these islands. I think the first UHV can be modified to:

Control Hawaii, New Zealand, and Easter Island by 1200 AD.

I suggest this change because we don't want the first UHV to be exactly the same as Tibet's.

I would suggest Kamehameha I and Liliʻuokalani as leaders.
 
NKN said:
The problem is that until the Renaissance, the UP is worthless (how are they supposed to meet other civs before Astronomy?) And the shortage of :hammers: is most acute at the start of the game.
Click to expand...

Not so. With the OP's Canoe suggestion, it certainly helps.
Ever trade maps with China or Japan in game?
They always explore much of Polynesia with a Trireme.
You can contact Indonesia, Khmer/Thai, China, Japan and Korea quite easily.
Combined with my suggestion, just leave two ships constantly moving
in their waters, and you can maintain a +2 Hammer bonus to Sea tiles.
 
As for the hammer issue, I suggest the following UP:

The Power of Slavery:
No unhappiness or instability from sacrificing population, -25% hurry production cost.

This could be modified to reduced unhappiness and instability if the original suggestion is too OP. If we add enough food resources, then this should allow us to remedy the hammer situation without overpowering the Polynesians.

The historical basis for this suggestion is taken from the following article:
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-BroMaor-t1-body1-d18-d6.html
 
Lennon789 said:
As for the hammer issue, I suggest the following UP:

The Power of Slavery:
No unhappiness or instability from sacrificing population, -25% hurry production cost.

This could be modified to reduced unhappiness and instability if the original suggestion is too OP. If we add enough food resources, then this should allow us to remedy the hammer situation without overpowering the Polynesians.

The historical basis for this suggestion is taken from the following article:
http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-BroMaor-t1-body1-d18-d6.html
Click to expand...

My problem with this UP is that it's essentially the Westminster Palace and an Opera House/Blue Mosque rolled into one UP.
RAW (Rules As Written) as well, this UP would also apply to the Draft.
 
can we make a uu that can explore ocean tiles in the south pacific?

with the south pacific being a specific set of tiles, much like some civs have for uhvs

that way they could travel to easter but not land and settle in the new world
 
Great to see responses. Tommorrow's Dawn's UP is a lot better than mine as well, perhaps "The Power of Migration?"Also, the Canoe would obviously replace the Galley. In fact, let me revise it now.

Canoe
Replaces Galley
  • Strength: 1
  • Movement: 2
  • Cost: 40:hammers:
  • Cargo Space: 1
  • Can enter Ocean Tiles

This way, it is virtually useless, except for travelling. Canoes, being small craft, cannot hold many people, hence the reduced hammer cost and carrying capacity. If we simply limited it to oceans 1 away from coasts, the unit would be useless, but as it is now, it has a legitimate use. It also synergizes well with Tomarrow's Dawn's UP.

As for the UB, it should really be the Moai Statues, but perhaps with less priests. If the spread of any religion to the civ is set very low, then the building would work well into the Renaissance, right about when the Polynesians made first real contact with Europeans.

Updating the OP as well to account for these changes, and some more.
 
Interesting civ, would love to play it.

UB + UP obviously overpowered, but perhaps won't matter for the AI because of this civ's location. Human player though could use the UB/UP combination (+ City States) to build up huge armies and conquer Indonesia (and perhaps Inca too, using the UU) quite easily, I think.

The "prevent Europe colonies" UHV is boring and should be won automatically in most cases. I rarely see a European colonize any of those areas at all. Even when England is a superpower it's more interested in Australia.
 
Lennon789 said:
Perhaps we can enable the Trading Company event for the Polynesians, allowing them to settle Madagascar.
Click to expand...

I hope you're joking. :eek: But I agree the production with foreign contacts unique power would suit it best because the islands were largely impacted once foreign goods and ideas were introduced.
 
It would be quite easy for the human to become ridiculously overpowered. If they contact all living civs, they could have water tiles giving 5+ hammers! Not to mention the newfound simplicity of getting conquerors. The UP could be capped at +2 hammers, and conquerors could simply be impossible for Polynesia.
 
^That's why they should be considered "New World." Would you consider the US's annexation of Hawaii "peaceful"? By nature of their UU, they should meet most other civilizations first. The fact that most of their cities will consist of 1-tile islands would mean conquerors would do almost nothing, if they happened at all.

As for the UP, would a cap of 3 be too much? I feel like two is too small and easy to get, whereas three becomes really powerful.
 
JiimBV said:
It would be quite easy for the human to become ridiculously overpowered. If they contact all living civs, they could have water tiles giving 5+ hammers! Not to mention the newfound simplicity of getting conquerors. The UP could be capped at +2 hammers, and conquerors could simply be impossible for Polynesia.
Click to expand...

Tomorrow's Dawn said:
Unnamed UP:

For every 2 foreign contacts you maintain, Sea tiles provide 1 Hammer (Works up to 4 contacts). Sea resources provide 1 extra Hammer.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

I think you skimmed through this thread too quickly.

Both of those concerns have already been addressed.

When I drafted the UP, I made it quite clear that the effect caps at 4 contacts.
That means only 2 Hammers for each Sea tile. It's already been mentioned.

As for conquerors, someone else already stated that Polynesia should be classified as a New World civ so they don't gain conquerors too easily.

Look again carefully.
 
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