primem0ver
Emperor
Ok... well it sounds like its pretty much unanimous here. Works for me.
Conspiracy theories, scientific issues, life, the universe, and everything
- Thread starter primem0ver
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Little Abigail
Chieftain
- Joined
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Sure, but only if it immediately collapses in on itself, killing everyone and everything on it.
Because, you know, that's what would happen to something that size if it were hollow.
Because, you know, that's what would happen to something that size if it were hollow.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Oh, you mean like a Dyson Sphere
Oh, you mean like a Dyson Sphere
A dyson sphere (and BTW, no reason we shouldn't have maps for them too in galactic, would be super-boring from a climate/terrain simulation perspective, since it's both engineered (so can have whatever its engineers want essentially), and equally radiated by its star, so zero temperature differentials. It's topologically identical to a normal planet though, so the polar issues (in terms of mapping the sphere to a plane) are the same (but the choice of poles is arbitrary).
primem0ver
Emperor
Someone told me that the moon was made of green cheese... So a Dyson sphere? Gotta be peanut brittle.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Big difference between Hollow Planet theory and Underground/Underwater layers btw. The latter would be acceptable science and strategery, the first would be a modmod for those rare nutjobs like me who actually think its legitimately possible and that the scientific community has not only failed to conclusively dismiss the possibility but is likely being taught to cover up the truth by being convinced of an equally valid, yet false, model by being taught that model as if it were now undeniable fact.
Much safer for people if they have zero awareness of these things.
If you need conspiracy theories, can't you at least choose some that are halfway plausible instead of one that is so easily disproven by anyone?
You know the force of gravity on yourself and you know how large Earth is so you can calculate Earth's mass. There is no way but collapse for any significant amount of hollow space with that amount of mass and gravity.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
The Hollow Planet theory counters with: Centrifugal force throws off all our base assumptions regarding gravity in the first place because those basic presumptions about the force of gravity are predicated on the current model of Earth being accurate.
No, gravity was first deduced from the movement of celestial bodies (which you can watch yourself if you like). It was not based on any model of the interior makeup of Earth.
Do you even know how strong centrifugal forces are at what distance?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
If it was centrifugal forces, they would not apply at the poles anyway. So what is holding them up?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Densities must be assumed, however, and once the model for gravitational calculations was completed, it defines our presumption of densities. Thus, you are right, but the basic presumptions that lead us to a judgement of density is predicated on the assumption that planets are not hollow.
I'll admit, I'm no physicist, but it seems rational if you consider that some of our basic assumptions and fundamental calculations could be flawed by the universal acceptance of solid planet formation.
So I'm not about to go into measurements of centrifugal forces and such so much as to make the theoretical points that support the possibility against the collapse assumption.
In the interior, gravitational force still pulls towards the center of the mass wherever the mass exists, thus from within the ovular shaped interior, you'd have some gravity working for you there as well to pull you into the surface (under which is the majority of local density, thus gravitational pull source) supported by enough centrifugal force to counter the 'other side's' gravitational pull. The majority of mass is between the two crusts (interior and anterior) and thus gravity is not centered in the middle of the planet as much as it is in the middle between the two layers.
To some extent I answer the question above. However, the ovular shape has something to do with this. That and the theory suggests there are 'holes', polar entrances into the interior, at the poles, perhaps in part due to the point you make.
But that assumption was not part of the development of science in that area. Actually scientists still considered it possible some centuries back.
It is just that newer observations (far later than when the fundamental models were developed) proved the solid model, not the hollow one.
When you assume mass in a kind of shell around a hollow core, then any object in there is pretty much weightless as the gravitational pull from all the sides is equal at any point inside the shell and the centrifugal force (considering that you rotate along with earth) is far lower than gravitation.
CivDad
King of Garama
Hollow planets should be a Galactic Era tech coming after Artificial Planets.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Interesting arguments. I'd love to see these newer observations (provided I could understand the data... lol). All I'm saying here is that I don't think the theory is 100% disproven. A large and rather convincing body of evidence may well exist against Hollow Earth, yes, but there is also a decent body of evidence for it that has not been fully refuted yet, mostly just ignored and laughed off. I believe there's a danger in taking the scientific community's conclusions at face value because there's politics involved in insidious ways there to enforce general assumptive conclusions to cover up things the masses should not know. My only point is that this MAY be one area this has taken place.
From the perspective of the mod, I think its best to stay to accepted 'truths' in the core, but there should be some late stage development to expand on some of the more sci-fi concepts since the stage will be so well set here for such things.
primem0ver
Emperor
LOL. This is an amusing discussion. However... it is moot. The internal composition of the earth (in terms of solid vs liquid vs gas or nothing) has been proved with Earthquake waves. P waves can move through solids and liquids only. S waves can only move through solids. NEITHER can move through gases and/or empty space. If a significant portion of the inside of the earth were hollow we would see P wave shadows in seismograph readings across the world. (These shadows exist with S waves because the outer core is liquid).
What's more is that different densities and phases affect the speeds of P waves, causing refraction and so the internal composition of Earth can be inferred by studying the way that these waves interact with different substances and measuring their arrival at different seismic stations around the earth (based on time, distance, location of the earthquake, etc...).
What's more is that different densities and phases affect the speeds of P waves, causing refraction and so the internal composition of Earth can be inferred by studying the way that these waves interact with different substances and measuring their arrival at different seismic stations around the earth (based on time, distance, location of the earthquake, etc...).
primem0ver mentions the most important one: The recordings of earthquakes all around the world. And no, that data can't be faked as there are a large amount of seismometers around and that includes a lot by hobbyists that are connected to the internet (example: http://www.jonfr.com/volcano/?p=3131 ).
If you still believe it is fake, set one up yourself and compare the result to other seismometers near you.
But it is, no hollow earth model exists that fits to evidence.
Such as?
The advantage to science is that you don't have to take anything at face value, you can go and check the papers yourself, starting from the fundamental ones and verify that the conclusions are valid and fitting to the data.
Then go and verify it yourself. You say you are no physicist but that you know better.
Do you know how many physicists there are in how many different countries? Any such conspiracy would include a vast amount of people and by the rule of inverse probabability to the number of people involved would end up extremely unlikely.
CivDad
King of Garama
Hollow planets can probably never occur naturally, but an advanced civilization might be able to form one by making millions of asteroids orbit a neutron star.
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