Do you wish to take permanent control of the Armenian Civilization?

Joined
May 26, 2012
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674
Armenia
(Gets called Georgia if Capital moved like Spain)

Because honesty, the whole Caucasus area is usually empty until Arabs unrealistically found the first City there, or 3000 BC independents get a very late spawning Artashaht with no units that usually gets razed.

Room for 3 core Cities, could easily be viable with small map-tweakings, I have experimented with modmodding some games myself. Created a stability map, but don't know where to upload. Core in Caucasus, gets contested tiles in Anatolia and Kurdistan.

- Artashaht/Yerevan capital spawns on Iron
- turn north-caucasus desert into plains
- deer turned into sheep/wheat
- horses & iron in Anatolia swap positions.


Spawndate: 290 BC

UHV:
- Control 6 Cities in 50 BC
- Be the first to found Christianity or have ex-culture by ex-date
- Have pleased relations with 4 Orthodox Civilizations in 1000 AD
- OR - Gold goal, have fun wreaking havoc with mountain bandits

Power:
The Power of Guerilla Warfare - All units start with Guerilla 1 and Morale until Rifling
The Power of Caucasian Diplomacy - Old Byzantine UP


UB/UU:
- Something requiring Orthodoxy that gives culture or a Stable that gives first UP bonus like Thai building
- Dzhigit: uses Indo-Scythian Barbarian Horseman graphics, ignores terrain movement costs and gets double pillage gold

leader:
Tigranes (obviously) another leader could be modded of a Gilgamesh base as he gets about 10 turns of gameplay but he's gorgeous.


Rebutalls to foreseen criticisms:
Leaders would usually vassalize to Persia, Rome or respawned Greeks, so wouldn't interfere in their goals, leaders are religious types so Muslims crush them if Greeks and Persians die.
Anyways, this just a humble suggestion. but still better than Harrapans/Tib = gets banned
 
I like it. In the late game though, it would almost certainly get dominated by the Turks. I suppose that, as the only Christian nation in the ME for so long, Armenia/Georgia does have a unique place in history worthy of at least some representation. I think this would fill a void left by the fact that Asia Minor usually has little settlement pre-Byzantine even though it has been settled since ancient times.

I propose for the Christianity goal that it is to found orthodoxy first. IIRC, the Armenian church is considered an Eastern Orthodox Church so it would make more sense to found Orthodox rather than Catholicism.
 
A few thoughts:

Because honesty, the whole Caucasus area is usually empty until Arabs unrealistically found the first City there

True, but I think we need to be careful the Armenian core area doesn't screw up the Persian UHV. I often found Artaxata (sp) on the iron as Persia, and use it to bottle up the Caucasus barbs. Whilst I'd happily capture it from Armenia, and let them deal with the barbs at first, if they start spamming cities down into Babylon that will really mess up the Persian goal.

- Be the first to found Christianity

Can't say I really like that UHV - it's basically just Ethiopia in a different place - same start date, same goal. Building an Orthodox cathedral by 900 AD (Garni Temple) might be a better one?

- Have pleased relations with 4 Orthodox Civilizations in 1000 AD

Definitely don't like this one - too cheesy cos you can just gift them techs right before the time limit. Also too dependent on the Byzzies to spread Orthodoxy - if they collapse then the goals is basically screwed.

Leaders would usually vassalize to Persia, Rome or respawned Greeks, so wouldn't interfere in their goals, leaders are religious types so Muslims crush them if Greeks and Persians die.

I don't see that as a problem tbh - would accurately represent the role of Armenia in history, and how it was used as a client / to balance out different powers in the region.
 
I propose for the Christianity goal that it is to found orthodoxy first. IIRC, the Armenian church is considered an Eastern Orthodox Church so it would make more sense to found Orthodox rather than Catholicism.

Problem with that is that Orthodoxy is founded when the Apostolic Palace is built, and the Holy City is determined by the computer, usually not the civ who builds the AP.

So the goal would effectively be for Armenia to build the Apostolic Palace, which would not be all that historical and would result in some other civ actually getting Orthodoxy, with Armenia getting the Catholic holy city, and thus being likely not to adopt Orthodoxy! Also you need Christianity to build the AP, so you'd effectively be relying on it spreading from whoever founds Catholicism - if China founds it then you are done for!
 
I agreed that DoC needs new civs but question is what kind of. Armenia would be good as a city state. I dont want to see Armenia that has cities in Siberia, Mesopotamia or controls Constantinople.
 
Armenia or a Steppe-civ would be the best option.
How about the SoI unique unit? I forget what its called.
 
Armenia is too small in an already crowded region. If you're looking for civ's to stick places try Central Asia or South Africa.
 
Armenia is too small in an already crowded region. If you're looking for civ's to stick places try Central Asia or South Africa.

For Central Asia the Sogdians would be interesting. They dominated Silk Road trade.
 
For Central Asia the Sogdians would be interesting. They dominated Silk Road trade.

Yeah, you could have them spawn, and with dynamic naming and respawns you could have them become Yuezhi (Kushans if they conquer Afghanistan/North India), Khwarmezmid (if they conquer Persia), have them respawn after the Arabs/Mongals as the Khanate of Samarkquad or Merv depending on where their capital is. In this period if they conquer Persia they can be the Timurids. When Russia is in the region they could be the Emirate of Bukhara. In modernish times they could be called a generic Turkestan. When they hold all of Central Asia in modernish times they could be Turan.

UU could be some kind of Central Asian gunner or nomadic horseman. UP could be the ability to call up horseman or something.
 
Armenia is too small in an already crowded region. If you're looking for civ's to stick places try Central Asia or South Africa.

Yup. There aren't enough tiles on the regular map that aren't already desert or mountains to make Armenia a worthwhile inclusion. No dice. Play Sword of Islam if you want an Armenian fix. Just like play RFCEurope if you want a Hungarian or Burgundian fix.
 
Also as it is the Ottomans already under-perform. With Armenia around they'd become even more mediocre.
 
I would like to see Armenia in DoC. It would give more flavour to ancient (classical) era. If Armenia would be (or could be) add to DoC I would play either Rome, Persia or Armenia. Their geopolitical power game in real history was very interesting and it was several hundred years long.
Armenia and Persia did survive the test of time - Rome didn't...
There are not so many empires, kingdoms, nations etc. in Mediterranean or Middle East which have been there more than two thousand years...
 
I would like to see Armenia in DoC. It would give more flavour to ancient (classical) era. If Armenia would be (or could be) add to DoC I would play either Rome, Persia or Armenia. Their geopolitical power game in real history was very interesting and it was several hundred years long.
Armenia and Persia did survive the test of time - Rome didn't...
There are not so many empires, kingdoms, nations etc. in Mediterranean or Middle East which have been there more than two thousand years...

I'm not so sure. It really depends on what you believe the idea of being "Roman" was evolving into. For instance, was it being a Catholic? It's a thorny issue.
 
Some time ago I proposed the khazar civilization for your same reasons...so I agree with your suggestion!

Then we would have to implement Judaism which means another corporation :goodjob:
 
I would like to see Armenia in DoC. It would give more flavour to ancient (classical) era. If Armenia would be (or could be) add to DoC I would play either Rome, Persia or Armenia. Their geopolitical power game in real history was very interesting and it was several hundred years long.
Armenia and Persia did survive the test of time - Rome didn't...
There are not so many empires, kingdoms, nations etc. in Mediterranean or Middle East which have been there more than two thousand years...

Armenia didn't survive 2000 years, the independent Kingdom of Armenia barely lasted 200 years. What are you talking about?

Bagratid Armenia was independent from about 880AD until about 1040 or 1050AD, when the Byzantines annexed them. After this point, no independent Armenia existed until the break up of the Soviet Union in the late 20th century.
 
Man we barely anything in common with 1776 Merika now. What do Armenia and Iran today have common with the Achenamids or Medes. Come on.
 
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