Turn question.

fdrpi

Prince
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Feb 14, 2012
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When you are building something, at what point are the hammers added to the project?

For example, you end your turn with a unit one turn away from being done. When does it emerge? At the end of your turn? End of the round? Beginning of your next turn?
 
When your turn ends. Therefor you can whip something at the last second.
 
When your turn ends. Therefor you can whip something at the last second.

So when the AI attacks the city in its turn, will your finished unit already be there to defend?
 
So when the AI attacks the city in its turn, will your finished unit already be there to defend?

If a unit is one turn from completion in the city bar, it will be there immediately when you end your turn (enter/red circle). Then the game cycles through the turn order. So yes.
 
So does this mean that you always take the first turn in a turn order? Ex: When the game is first started, do you always make your move first
 
in single player mode, yes.
 
In SP mode AND NOT multiplayer simultaneous turn thingy, here go priorities:

In term of a Round:
1st) Human player
2nd) AI
3rd) Insert another AI
.
.
.
Nth) Barbarian nation

In term of a turn:

How is processed different things...grossly:

1st) Commerce first (so techs are first priority)
2nd) Food second (Growth goes before and is important to know only in granary considerations)
3rd) Hammers last ( builds are compiled last)

Thus, when you finish a turn with a remaining turn in a project, you ALWAYS win any race you are pursuing (Lib, wonder, space race, etc.) because human nation is always top priority.
 
How is processed different things...grossly:

1st) Commerce first (so techs are first priority)
2nd) Food second (Growth goes before and is important to know only in granary considerations)
3rd) Hammers last ( builds are compiled last)

Growth goes before production? Does this mean if you grow into a mined hill that turn you get extra production? Never noticed anything like that.

Thus, when you finish a turn with a remaining turn in a project, you ALWAYS win any race you are pursuing (Lib, wonder, space race, etc.) because human nation is always top priority.

I wouldn't say there's a priority in bias of humans, just the simple fact that we're playing our turn and things happen at the end when we finish. The human is normally first in single player (not sure if this can be changed) but doesn't matter much in this conversation since the AI would have already played their turn before you. You'd know about whatever they've achieved. Whatever, it's just vocabulary, sorry for wasting our time.
 
Strange. I was just playing a game, and I had a unit one turn away from production. The city was attacked, but the unit wasn't there to defend it. Wonder why this happened.
 
2nd) Food second (Growth goes before and is important to know only in granary considerations)
3rd) Hammers last ( builds are compiled last)

A noob question, but lazy to test it. So, if I am 1 turn of completing a granary and I am 1 turn from growing, I hit EOT and I wont get half full granary after growing?
 
Correct. The city grows, then builds, and you're left with a brand-new but empty Granary. It's very annoying (to me anyway), but I always make sure I have an extra turn after the Granary is supposed to be finished so I don't waste that food.
 
A noob question, but lazy to test it. So, if I am 1 turn of completing a granary and I am 1 turn from growing, I hit EOT and I wont get half full granary after growing?

The granary question took me time to figure it out from the code, but there no more secrets about the granary for me.

So, first, the granary works like that:
Once the granary is available in a city, food rate will not only put food into growth bar, but also in the granary. So, if +5 :food: per turn, then after 1 turn, you get +5 in the food bar and +5 in the granary. The idea of finishing a granary about mid-threshold of growth is coming from the fact completing the half food bar equals to the max a granary can hold.

Also consider the fact that food coming before hammers mean the in-between turn after granary completion will not stock food in granary. The stocking starts in the next end of turn.

If you finish a granary at the same moment as growth, you get nothing in the granary due to that offset created from output priority order.
But if you get the granary a turn before growth, what you might do is to use high food tiles to make up a bit as food stocking+food in food bar are compiled BEFORE the growth.
 
Strange. I was just playing a game, and I had a unit one turn away from production. The city was attacked, but the unit wasn't there to defend it. Wonder why this happened.

It's either because you lost access to some strategic resource, or perhaps you got one and an obsolete unit was converted to its successor (e.g. warrior-->spear) and because you got not enough production, the unit wasn't there.
 
I wouldn't say there's a priority in bias of humans, just the simple fact that we're playing our turn and things happen at the end when we finish. The human is normally first in single player (not sure if this can be changed) but doesn't matter much in this conversation since the AI would have already played their turn before you. You'd know about whatever they've achieved. Whatever, it's just vocabulary, sorry for wasting our time.

Yes, there's a bias of one turn for the human player. Let assumes a scenario of 8 human players who have the same leader, civ, start, etc. and play exactly in the same fashion.

Once all starts a wonder, the one who will win the wonder is the first player and despite everyone played identically.

This case of losing a race because of round players order is often seen (but invisible to players) in religion races. Two AI's may be 1 turn away of a religion, let's say Izzy vs Justinian for Buddism, but because RNG decided Justinian comes before Izzy in player order, she just lost the race of her precious religion.
 
Thank you very much Tachywaxon for clarifying the till-now-somewhat-obscure food-production-growth mechanism :) Till now I always played by instinct and rules of thumb about it, but after knowing which comes first and which second, and most important that there is an "invisible" granary bar, which is filled parallel with the granary up to half the food bar capacity, now all makes sense to me. I tried to build granaries on the half food bar marks, but only because I have read somewhere this is the best point, now I know why :)
 
It's either because you lost access to some strategic resource, or perhaps you got one and an obsolete unit was converted to its successor (e.g. warrior-->spear) and because you got not enough production, the unit wasn't there.

Not much connected, but still interesting thing to know which I found recently is that when you build a unit, which will be obsoleted by you connecting a resource this turn, and you have some hammers invested in it, you must not take this unit off the building queue, because otherwise you will just lose the hammers invested in that unit already, simply because you cant put that obsolete unit back in the building queue. Best example is I have put 7 hammers in a warrior already. Then connect the copper this turn, but mess around with building queue and take off the warrior (which otherwise would have turned in to a spear building next turn). Then I just lost 7 hammers, as I was unable to put the warrior back in the queue to be transformed in spear next turn :)
 
Thank you very much Tachywaxon for clarifying the till-now-somewhat-obscure food-production-growth mechanism :) Till now I always played by instinct and rules of thumb about it, but after knowing which comes first and which second, and most important that there is an "invisible" granary bar, which is filled parallel with the granary up to half the food bar capacity, now all makes sense to me. I tried to build granaries on the half food bar marks, but only because I have read somewhere this is the best point, now I know why :)

To add a further point: middle food bar isn't the sole optimal point to finish a granary. In fact, with a good food source, there are many. And the trick is simply based on the fact the code proceeds in step and granary/food bars are one before growth (btw, growth is simply a substraction of present food bar, then an added population from the code point of view).
The trick is to get the most "surplus" (I use the word surplus, but that concept is wrong) to get the growth.
For instance,
if you reach 13/22 with a food rate of +4 :food: (granary chopped last turn when food bar was 9/22), experience will say you will miss 1 :food: because you need 9 :food: to complete the food bar (and granary bar at the same time). Next turn, it's gonna be 9/24. But in reality, after two turns, you get (13+4+4)/22=21/22. Let see how the code handles the next income of food:
Steps
1. (21+4)/22=25/22 (Food bar)
2. Granary was 8/11 but now is (8+4)/11=12/11 ==>max 11/11
3. food bar is eaten ==> (25-22)/22==>3/24==>14/24 thanks to granary.
4. Add a population

In the end, the very turn of growth, there is a margin to catch up missed half food bar granary.

And thus there is not a single point of optimal granary. It's situational.
 
Not much connected, but still interesting thing to know which I found recently is that when you build a unit, which will be obsoleted by you connecting a resource this turn, and you have some hammers invested in it, you must not take this unit off the building queue, because otherwise you will just lose the hammers invested in that unit already, simply because you cant put that obsolete unit back in the building queue. Best example is I have put 7 hammers in a warrior already. Then connect the copper this turn, but mess around with building queue and take off the warrior (which otherwise would have turned in to a spear building next turn). Then I just lost 7 hammers, as I was unable to put the warrior back in the queue to be transformed in spear next turn :)

Hmmm...in Civ4, the good thing is the general mass-energy equivalence-like mechanics compared to the horrible punitive CivIII where you may lose hammers in lost wonders.

Now, I see monasteries not finished with SM are lost.
Same thing it seems for units that have been obsoleted and what kept them alive was that item queue.
Even missionaries in queue when we reach 3 national unit limit are converted in gold.
 
Let see how the code handles the next income of food:
Steps
1. (21+4)/22=25/22 (Food bar)
2. Granary was 8/11 but now is (8+4)/11=12/11 ==>max 11/11
3. food bar is eaten ==> (25-22)/22==>3/24==>14/24 thanks to granary.
4. Add a population

In the end, the very turn of growth, there is a margin to catch up missed half food bar granary.

When you said "max 11/11", will it stays that way? Because in your last equation;

3. food bar is eaten ==> (25-22)/22==>3/24==>14/24

It's 14/24=(11+3)/24, why not (12+3)/24?

Sorry for bothering.
 
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