Immortal University 86 - Elizabeth

Greetings, Immortals and would-be Immortals (and indeed any other players of any level), and welcome to the Immortal University.

Here is our Leader:



Here's the opening scene:



The following settings were used to create this map



And the Demographics for people to spot any info they can



Before we start, here's the copy & paste bit where I get to pretend that I'm TMIT:

To play, just extract the WB save file into your worldbuilder saves directory, then play it. Use custom scenario if you want some extra settings to tickle your fancy. This series was designed for people learning immortal, so most people here will be at that level or trying to attain it, although deity players are welcome also. Hell, if you want to play this on NOBLE. The intention of this and any other game thread I post is to get better. Play whatever level you need in order to improve.

If you are aspiring IMM+, try to remember to add archery back to the barbs in WB. Every time you don't, a deity AI will kill a kitten, although there are a lot of kittens so it's not the end of the world if you prefer easymode barbs .

I do request people to list their difficulty and speed. In terms of updates, well nobody follows that anyway. Post in the manner you feel comfortable. Typical comparison dates are 1 AD, liberalism, and victory/defeat, as well as any major events. If in doubt, go with that.

We also have an initial Immortal/Normal autosave which is much more convenient since you can avoid all the worldbuilder shenanigans. It comes with my personal seal of approval (not least as my worldbuilder edits may contain hideous game-destroying errors that could cause your computer to explode ).

This is my first attempt at hosting a forum game, so everybody be nice! But seriously let me know if there is any trouble with the WB saves, or if there is anything in particular I could have done better, just let me know. I'm always open for suggestions.

I just did a quick glance at the map and hopefully it will be pretty well balanced. I'm thinking moving warrior 1E or 1SE, settling on the banana tile to grab the gems seems like a good play. What does everybody else think?

Have fun!

Happy no longer boring pangaea era. Fractal returns. Now the question settle on banana or sugar.
Sugar hands down. Banana is 5 vs sugar 4 and even though banana side has more rivers, sugar has important grass hills.


Still, bouge-toi my little warrior 1SW to voir some gemmes supplementary.

Tachywaxon said:

Happy no longer boring pangaea era. Fractal returns. Now the question settle on banana or sugar.
Sugar hands down. Banana is 5 vs sugar 4 and even though banana side has more rivers, sugar has important grass hills.


Still, bouge-toi my little warrior 1SW to voir some gemmes supplementary.

Click to expand...

This is one of the reasons I decided to host this game (and maybe some future games) b/c I receive excellent advice. Thanks Tachy.

Sugar and banana both get jungle in BFC, but that isn't too big of a deal. I would do sugar and then drop a city 2E of starting position to get some river cottages going. Fast calendar = tile share shenanigans.

Gems opens up the possibility of a very strong oracle choice. We'll need to scout though.

Tachywaxon said:

Happy no longer boring pangaea era. Fractal returns. Now the question settle on banana or sugar.
Sugar hands down. Banana is 5 vs sugar 4 and even though banana side has more rivers, sugar has important grass hills.


Still, bouge-toi my little warrior 1SW to voir some gemmes supplementary.

Click to expand...

Hmm it really is a tough choice. I would move warrior 1E to see if there are any hills. If there is 1 hill I would settle on the Nanas for sure. If there are none it is a tough call. Both tiles are the same yield.

Zx Zero Zx said:

Hmm it really is a tough choice. I would move warrior 1E to see if there are any hills. If there is 1 hill I would settle on the Nanas for sure. If there are none it is a tough call. Both tiles are the same yield.

Click to expand...

You have a 10 surplus working just the corns. The gems are +1 . I don't see hills being too huge here; you can easily whip that kind of surplus into whatever production you need and stay on the power tiles. The banana is a better long-term yield than the sugar. Once you have calandar the relative difference of settling on the banana is -1 forever. I see us constantly growing over the cap without whips in the capitol so the variance of getting extra hills in cap compared to whipping doesn't seem that great, especially when we might actually prefer anyway pretty soon.

With a start like this it barely matters since the land quality for cap itself is quite good, but I still think sugar is the strongest.

Tachywaxon said:

Sugar hands down. Banana is 5 vs sugar 4 and even though banana side has more rivers, sugar has important grass hills.

Click to expand...

Squinty-vision also suggests that the tiles around the river are the wrong color.

VoiceOfUnreason said:

Squinty-vision also suggests that the tiles around the river are the wrong color.

Click to expand...

turd brown.


When I said sugar hands down I meant I choose sugar to disappear out of my face.

Lastly, I forgot to mention cottage that banana tile when being FIN is OOMPH.

Anyways, such analysis isn't that important given the strength of that start. Whatever one settles, it's an auto-win game...almost.

Another point with non-riverside sugar, later, you'll have to farm these to get better output, but you lose the ability to trade it away for other resources. Settling on sugar simply simplifies simplisticly the problem.

EDIT: With sugar settling, you got a nice 1E to banana city and another on that PH. So corns are shared and hills in capital can be used.

Forgot to mention:

Long time lurker (like 5 years) first time live participant (always ended up replaying the old series myself) getting back into the game and trying to actually get to IMM and Diety level of play.

Checking in for Emperor difficulty and settling on the Sugar for sure.

Ianrudy said:

Long time lurker (like 5 years) first time live participant (always ended up replaying the old series myself) getting back into the game and trying to actually get to IMM and Diety level of play.

Checking in for Emperor difficulty and settling on the Sugar for sure.

Click to expand...

Well here's an official welcome to CFC!
Any questions, or just need help, don't hesitate to ask.

TheMeInTeam said:

You have a 10 surplus working just the corns. The gems are +1 . I don't see hills being too huge here; you can easily whip that kind of surplus into whatever production you need and stay on the power tiles. The banana is a better long-term yield than the sugar. Once you have calandar the relative difference of settling on the banana is -1 forever. I see us constantly growing over the cap without whips in the capitol so the variance of getting extra hills in cap compared to whipping doesn't seem that great, especially when we might actually prefer anyway pretty soon.

With a start like this it barely matters since the land quality for cap itself is quite good, but I still think sugar is the strongest.

Click to expand...

I just feel safer having 1 mine in my capital so I can get warriors out to FB before getting barb archerd to death. But yes with out a doubt you are in no need of hills for post BW production with a start like this.

Tachywaxon said:

turd brown.


When I said sugar hands down I meant I choose sugar to disappear out of my face.

Lastly, I forgot to mention cottage that banana tile when being FIN is OOMPH.

Anyways, such analysis isn't that important given the strength of that start. Whatever one settles, it's an auto-win game...almost.

Another point with non-riverside sugar, later, you'll have to farm these to get better output, but you lose the ability to trade it away for other resources. Settling on sugar simply simplifies simplistically the problem.

EDIT: With sugar settling, you got a nice 1E to banana city and another on that PH. So corns are shared and hills in capital can be used.

Click to expand...

A cottaged banana is just a FP with no unhealth, I don't see why you like it so much.

Though after you make the point about the second city with the banana to the east I completely agree with you that settling on the Sugar is the strongest play it seems purely due to being able to get more strong cities.

I just feel safer having 1 mine in my capital so I can get warriors out to FB before getting barb archerd to death. But yes with out a doubt you are in no need of hills for post BW production with a start like this.

Click to expand...

If you bump it up to deity, I might understand your concern . Even so, you can easily build archers while growing, or warriors while improving the corns initially. How much barb trouble there is will depend on land but the gems should help alleviate problems by getting to the techs required sooner.

I don't get cottaging the banana either. I'd rather farm it for initial (share-able) yield that can later be upgraded by 1 and adding also. There's no way you'd want to leave a cottage on that tile permanently, and calandar with a gem mine isn't even that far off! Early is also not an issue with this start so I'm not seeing much justification in cottaging that tile.

It's not a great traditional burcap but heck, with financial you could still use it that way.

TheMeInTeam said:

I don't get cottaging the banana either. I'd rather farm it for initial (share-able) yield that can later be upgraded by 1 and adding also. There's no way you'd want to leave a cottage on that tile permanently, and calandar with a gem mine isn't even that far off! Early is also not an issue with this start so I'm not seeing much justification in cottaging that tile.

Click to expand...

Don't try to understand me as it is a niche playstyle called idontknowwhatimtalkingaboutandipitchwhateverideacomingoutofmymind.

TheMeInTeam said:

If you bump it up to deity, I might understand your concern . Even so, you can easily build archers while growing, or warriors while improving the corns initially. How much barb trouble there is will depend on land but the gems should help alleviate problems by getting to the techs required sooner.

It's not a great traditional burcap but heck, with financial you could still use it that way.

Click to expand...

I have more loses on deity because I get 12387291783923 barb archers that want to see what's up over the course of 3 turns than I do because the AI did something unexpected. To me the barbs really are the hardest part of the game to deal with sometimes, but they can also be the easiest.

I feel that as long as you have enough food, even if you have brown riverside tiles it doesn't matter. It is the same commerce out put, but just trading food for hammers, which can be nice later when crazy people try to build Oxford. But with a start like this just based off being FIN, and all the green tiles I will accept this as a good Buro capital unless there is some godly other spot that screams palace.

@Tachy Bananas aren't like Silk/Spices/Dye with FIN you only get the 1 commerce. Now riverside Dye, and such are AMAZING with a FIN cottage, 4 commerce tile with only 5 turns put into it? Yes please!

I too confess to have built a cottage on the nana's.

Those nana's are perfect for a cottage..

Decided to give this one a shot. Emperor/Epic/Choose Religions, played until turn 75.

Zx Zero Zx said:

A cottaged banana is just a FP with no unhealth, I don't see why you like it so much.

Click to expand...

and that exactly is what is best about this FP without unhealth. I regularly cottage sugar/bananas like everytime, another good one is dye.

the calendar is so bad tech that I just don't get it like before 1 AD... so why not have useful tile before T115?