TSG51 After Action Report

leif erikson

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Welcome to the TSG51 After Action Report thread. In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state victory date and score (preferably in the post title), as recorded in the Hall of Fame, and the most important: your path to glory!

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed and submitted your game.

Please use the Civ5 game submission page to submit your final, first play through, .Civ5Save file, saved AFTER the victory ceremony if you were not conquered (using the "Lemme play one more turn" feature.).

- What VC did you decide upon and when did you decide to go for it?
- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences (please state if the game is a replay).

Would be interested to hear any thoughts on game setup. :)
 
turn 128 DEFEAT :(
got demolished by isabella's army of trebuchets and consquisidors...

settled on place, another city on the marble, third next to the crab and truffles..

made about six composite's for defence, lost 2 at first strike, i think it's the earliest defeat i've
experienced (not counting MP)..
 
Emotional game. Ragequit at turn 132. This is how it went:

Settled in place and went for double scout, granary, writing, lux techs. and iron working. Got myself two workers from Darius, and another 2 from barbs. In first 60 turns i managed to buy/build 7 bowmen and allied 90% of city states i met. Nice start, eh? It goes better: 4 cities + NC at turn 79. At turn 92 i unlocked education and my cities were: 16, 9, 9, 8. Switched all cities (but one) to producing universities.

This is where hell broke loose. Triple DoW from Isabella, Genghis and Harun. Swarms of Conquistadors, Keshiks, Swordsmen, Catapults, plus, about 12 missionaries of different confessions suddenly appeared on my screen. ALL Empty space was insta filled with their cities (yeah, they carried settlers with them too). 4 CBs were killed were they stood, others fled and were slaughtered while trying to take cover behind walls of Babylon.

For about 20 turns i was trying to survive. Switched to full military in my cities, screw Universities. 7 out of 8 of my CS allies were captured during this time. The reason why ally number 8 wasn't captured is that it stopped being my ally 1 turn before Genghis captured it. I decided not to renew alliance ...

Turn 115. Most of my lands are on fire and filled with foreign military. Here comes surprise: I upgrade to Xbows and Isabella comes back with 2k gold for peace. I rush 5 more Xbows. Harun and Genghis come back with white peace. Uff..

Ten turns later: Triple DoW again... :lol:

Anyway, my intricate plan was to fend off early attacks and quickly (by turn 150) tech to Flight to kill everyone. I guess it was a bad plan. :D
 
defeat in turn 89 from Isabella. Isabella and Genghis were capturing CS's left and right. at about turn 86 i had 1 spearman - minimal health, and i bowman and i saw a catapult near 1 of my cities. Bought a cross and a chariot archer and returned the bowman to the city to upgrade. Next came the army...6 catas, 1-2 spears, 1-2 cross, 1-2 warrior. I was dead in 2 turns. And i had just gotten to pikeman tech. Harun made the pyramids 1 turn before me.
 

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I know how most of you feel, have been testing for this game for a week and got crushed so many times that I got numb to it. :lol:
I feel your pain. :hide:

Best wishes for a :xmassign: to all our GOTM'ers. :xmascheers:
 
Defeated on turn 247 by persia with science victory . At the beginning i've to suck genghis balls, later game trying so hard to please isabella as she dominate half of the map. Gonna try new game again. I think the starting position isn't strategic, need to move to other place.
 
yeah we all funked this mess up.

190 in. Harrun just wouldnt stop. that was cool. then ugly face khan wanted some. he won.




re-rolled this bad boy, with some of that quicksave/reload jazz.

its amazing the difference map knowledge can make. and getting that first city out earlier, and better.






















to win this will take some Dave(McWhat?) magic. not even tommy can win this one the first time round.






































(always remember folks, i could have played this game through. started the game again. and then submitted my second play through. and you wouldnt be any the wiser ;) dont ask why i know this, i just know this)
 
T200 give up. :(

The plan was to be a science victory.

Made 4 cities and gone for tradition and rationalism.

DOWed by Isa in the beggining and hold the situation. Permanent war with her but it´s ok. She started to be ally with every CS.

Isa and Harum are very huge. I had a "arabian protection wall" between my and Isa.

Everything was OK, second in tech, happy e no big war problens when my "friend" Harum declares war. He comes with a lot of units and i give up.

I will try a second approach but i think this game is for Tommynit, DaveMc (i really don´t know to write these names) and others great players.

Deaty is to much for me. Maybe the only alternative is to make the AI be occupied with a war to win the game.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2012-12-25
Reference number: 27987
Your name: Cpt Oblivious
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1725AD
Turns played: 256
Base score: 452
Final score: 452
Time played: 2:06:00
Submitted save: TSG51_Defeat.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Cpt_Oblivious_C505101.Civ5Save

A fairly open-and-shut 256 turn defeat at the hands of Persian scientific advances.
- What VC did you decide upon and when did you decide to go for it?

I initially planned on Science, but after getting stalled down quite a bit from expansion and midgame infrastructure, I tried to swing a little into Culture (Since the only wonders I was able to get by Ren was Oracle, HS, and Sistine.) After weathering a Mongol onslaught around turn 200, I realized the case was pretty hopeless, and consigned myself to sticking it out until someone else won rather than being conquered.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?

I used Religion primarily to help supplement my empire (Fertility Rights for food, Religious Community for hammers, Tithe for gold.) Espionage was actually really good to me, I managed to steal about 6 techs in midgame from Persia and Sweden, and helped slingshot myself right into Industrial Era - which was perfect timing since I was staring down Khan's advance shortly after.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?

Everyone was friendly early game, but Arabia was very land-grabbing (and blocked my expansion), which ultimately led to me becoming the aggressor and attacking neighbors before they attacked me. It also led to having a target on me later, with Mongolia, Persia, and Sweden all DoWing me simultaneously.

- How did the difficulty level affect your game decisions?

Not being experienced at Deity I did the natural thing - played safer and more conservatively- which probably was a big mistake. Instead of capitalizing on my strong surges I hesitated on them and fell behind.
 
Game: Civ5 GOTM 51
Date submitted: 2012-12-26
Reference number: 27990
Your name: Giallorossi90
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1765AD
Turns played: 263
Base score: 388
Final score: 388
Time played: 8:16:00
Submitted save: Nebuchadnezzar II_0263 AD-1765.Civ5Save
Renamed file: Giallorossi90_C505101.Civ5Save

My first submit and post on this forum... I played a couple of GotMs already, clearly I'm glad just to have survived this one! :crazyeye:

Tried a tradition 4 cities opener, later conquered and added Vatican. Then sold off 4 of my 5 cities towards the end just to collect cash, buy troops and keep Genghis at bay. I wonder how an OCC would have worked out?

Thanks Leif by the way for this great initiative! GotM is really a great way to play Civ, the update frequency is perfect and the variation in difficulty provides nice new challenges. Immortal and Deity are way above my skill, but I always learn something new.
 
Well, I survived and just barely eeked out a victory. I made lots of dumb mistakes throughout the game, but I'm reasonably pleased with the game. I guess not losing is itself an accomplishment in a Deity game!

From the start, I decided to go with a Diplomatic game. My logic was that if someone else beat me to the U.N. and triggered the vote, I'd at least still have a shot to get enough votes. So I played a very peaceful game and watched helplessly as my city state friends were massacred left and right. Was never at war; my army the whole game consisted of 1 Bowman, 1 Warrior, 1 Bowman Scarcher, and 1 Scout. Near the endgame, I did build a pair of Privateers to go exploring (I actually wanted Caravels but they were obsolete by then) but it turns out they were blocked from the main ocean).

Was Friends with Gustavus and Harun very early on. Spain quickly became a Friend as well (though she started plotting against me during the second half of the game). It took a long while to get Darius to extend his hand in Friendship. Was never "Friends" with Temujin but he was always "Friendly" but with a dagger behind his back (i.e. wasn't giving me full price on trades so I actually didn't trade with him much). I could tell that he was itching to attack me due to his troop placement.

My strategy for keeping out of war was to have Mongolia and frenemy Spain *always* involved in a war with someone else. That way they were too busy to bother with me. In addition, there is a very sweet chokepoint that can hold off the Mongolian hordes. If you are planning to fight Mongolia and can place a Great General citadel around the choke point, you can really massacre their army.

I also strategically bribed AI's to DoW each other to secure key wonders. One thing I learned from playing this game: If the odds weren't already stacked against you with the Deity AI's snowballing discounts to growth, producing buildings, and early improvements from that free worker, but to add insult to injury they also get a 10% discount on producing wonders. So they're likely to have more production than you, and they need fewer hammers than you to produce the same wonder! My general motto is: if they've already started working on a wonder, don't bother because they will beat you to it!

Early on, I used this strategy to improve my chances of getting the Great Library and the Oracle. Starting in the Renaissance (with spies), I could improve my precision and this helped me get Notre Dame and Statue of Liberty. I also tried it with the Taj Mahal but unfortunately it didn't make enough of a difference and I still lost the Taj to Arabia.

My religion looked good on paper (focus on production and science):

- God of the Seas
- Interfaith Dialogue
- Religious Community
- Guruship (was planning to run scientists anyway)
- Holy Order

but my religion strategy turned out to be an epic failure due to my pathetic faith output. It helped my capital, but I never even spread it to my other cities and never built a single missionary. More on that later.

My original plan was to stick to 4 cities, but I ended up doing a 5th to ward off encroaching settlers. In the end, I had:

Babylon (pop 24) settled on spot
Akkad (pop 11) settled NE on Marble
Dur-Kurigalzu (pop 14) settled in the southern jungles
Nippur (pop 12) settled SE near Silk (mainly for defensive purposes)
Borsippon (pop 5) settled NW near Crab and Truffles

in contrast, I had to face the likes of Stockholm which ended up with a population of about 39!

Great Scientists from Babylonian UA and PT were both settled. Naturally popped 4 more GS's, 3 of which were settled (for 5 academies total, though sometimes I didn't even work them all!). One GS was sitting around chillin' to bulb but I forgot about him (oops!). 1 GE popped naturally, 1 bought with faith, and 1 from Leaning Tower. The only artists I got were from the Louvre which were burned for Golden Ages (not that great at 8 turns each). Never got close to getting an Admiral or General.

SP's were: Full Tradition, left side of Rationalism, Order to get Planned Economy, and then finished Rationalism.

Tech: Go for Writing, grab Sailing, beeline Theology, shoot for Education and Acoustics, then focus on Printing Press and then Acoustics.

Science output was strong early on. Was easily the tech leader up through around Renaissance/Industrial. Around then, the massive empires of the AI's caught up but I still managed to be on par (I don't think it would have been possible for a non-Babylon or non-Korea civ). Even in the end game, my pathetic 5 city empire was producing about 500 beakers worth. None of my cities had a Research Lab and two of them didn't even have a Public School. Sad, eh?

However, the RA's were huge (especially with Spain and Arabia), due to the Deity bonuses. Signed a total of 11 RA's (only needed 8 of them; the remaining 3 were superfluous). Signed 3 each with Spain/Arabia/Sweden, and 2 with Persia.

City states were getting massacred left and right by Mongolia, Spain, and Sweden. Of the initial 16, only half (8) survived.

In the end, I had the second lowest score - only ahead of Sweden who had just lost several key cities to Darius (I spent most of the game on the bottom).

The end game was very tight. After the U.N. was built, there were the 6 major civs (me and 5 AI's) and only 8 remaining city states. Of the available votes, you needed 10 to win and at the time I only had 2 allied city states and 2 AI votes. I furiously generated cash and bet everything on winning with the first vote (if I lost I would have been screwed). Through some delicate political maneuvering, I aggressively bribed major AI's and CS' alike. When the vote came up, I had no idea how things would turn out. Fortunately, I just barely squeaked by with 11 out of the 15 available votes. I couldn't vote for myself, and didn't have the cash to ally with 2 of Gustav's city states. I took Genghis' vote for granted though and he didn't vote for me (it could have cost me the game!).

Finally, here are my major mistakes:


1. Religion = Epic Fail

My plan was to go straight for Theology and aggressively spread my religion to generate science (with Interfaith Dialogue).

I was actually the first to found a pantheon (thanks to my scout meeting the Vatican). But my pathetic faith output meant it took a long time to found and enhance my religion. Add to that my tech beelining and high science output which meant I quickly advanced in eras (which increases faith costs).

I had a good production theme of God of the Seas (several of my cities were strategically placed to maximize fishing boats), Religious Community, and Guruship. However, I never got a chance to spread my religion. It wasn't an issue of competing faiths, I just never had enough faith to afford a missionary. Despite having Great Mosque + Interfaith Dialogue + Holy Order, my faith output was between 5 and 10 a turn. By the time I enhanced, the window of opportunity for buying missionaries was pretty much closed already. I did scrape up enough to buy a Pagoda (after one of my cities was passively converted due to pressure) but that's about it.

If I could do it over again, I would ditch Interfaith and go for something like Gold or Happiness (in my one city) instead. Defender of the Faith and even Reliquary (gasp!) would have been good, though both were actually already taken by then. (NO ONE got the religious pressure enhancers). But even Messiah would have been better than Holy Order.

Considering how poorly the religious angle turned out, maybe I should have gone straight for Civil Service (instead of Theology) and gone for Chichen Itza (over Great Mosque or HS)?


2. HS > Great Mosque

After GL and NC, I went for the Great Mosque, planning to get HS later on. In most games I play, faith isn't a problem and the Great Mosque is much more useful than the HS. In this game, it was the opposite. Besides the free Mosque, I never really used the Great Mosque at all because I was deficient in faith. Instead, I really should have gone for the HS instead (free temple + 4 additional faith + Great Prophet).

After the Great Mosque, I went for the Oracle and by the time I was ready for the HS, everyone else was building it instead. With 3 civs gunning for it, I didn't think I could start enough wars to still get it so I gave up on it.

I consoled myself with the Great Wall and Terracotta Soldiers, which the AI's seemed to be ignoring. Didn't actually use the Great Wall but it provided me with a lot of security and meant I could ignore building units. Maybe I will go back and play an older save to see how useful the Great Wall would be in an actual war (against Mongolia or Spain).

So I really wish I could have swapped the Great Mosque for the Hagia Sophia.


3. Wonder explosion in the Renaissance AND Taj > Himeji

After finishing the GW & Terracotta, I was feeling pretty good. Genghis built the Forbidden Palace but no one else seemed interested in building Renaissance wonders. I quickly secured the Leaning Tower (for the GE to rush PT). I then went back and built Notre Dame, snatching it from under Gustavus' nose (by getting Temujin to DoW him).

I was planning to build the Sistine Chapel next but Harun surprised me by snatching it. Instead, I worked on Himeji Castle, planning to wait a little longer to do the Taj Mahal. I actually did get Himeji, but I discovered too late that Harun was building the Taj Mahal. I delayed him a few turns by getting Isabella to DoW him but it wasn't enough.

I got too greedy by going for the unneeded Himeji. Should have just focused on the Taj Mahal. Oops!

BTW: This is another game where I really would have liked Angkor Wat. Unfortunately, both Gustavus and Darius were interested in it so I didn't bother. Gustavus was close to finishing it when Darius burned a GE to hurry it.


4. Minor annoyances

- For the third round of RA's, thought I had signed one with Sweden when I didn't. Took me about 5 turns to realize my mistake and sign it (but didn't matter since it turned out to be a superfluous one).

- Never did find that 5th Natural Wonder. In the end, I was madly scrambling to find it (would have fulfilled about 4 city state quests) but alas, my efforts were in vain. (And the two ships I built couldn't access the main ocean).

- Oxford + Rationalism finisher worked nicely. However, I completely forgot about my spare Great Scientist that was sitting around waiting to bulb. Might have been able to shave a few turns if I had remembered him.


5. Border Control

During the early and midgame, I was vigilant with border control, to keep other civs from settling near me. I got a bit lazy in the end game, when Isabella, Harun, and Temujin all settled near me. Main thing is that I lost a Truffles that should have been mine. I even saw Isabella's settler and meant to investigate her intentions, but I forgot.


6. Diplomacy Fails

I got careless in the end game when Venice and Marrakech got conquered (b/c they were allied to a civ that was at war with another civ). If I had been more vigilant, I could have saved them from destruction (by allying them).

I was actually getting a bit worried when the CS count went down to 8 since I still would need 10 votes to win.

I had DoF's with Gustavus, Harun, Isabella, and Darius, but preliminary results showed that several of them favored each other over me (I corrected that of course and they all ended up voting for me).

But Temujin was an interesting case. Throughout the game, we had always been on cordial terms (an uneasy "friendly"). Never at war. Never denouncing each other. But never quite trusting each other. In contrast, Mongolia had been at war and denounced / been denounced with each of the other civs. Preliminary voting showed that he favored me. I took him for granted and he actually surprised me but voting for someone else instead! Oops! In hindsight, I should have secured his vote (which I could have done easily). Fortunately, I didn't actually need his vote but it was another dumb mistake.



Hope you enjoyed reading my massive essay! Let me know if you find any specific tidbits to be especially enlightening.

I still suspect that Military VC is likely to be the fastest. I may try to replay the game with a Domination focus. I'll let you know how it turns out!
 
How did you win by diplo when 3 quarters of cs are dead by turn 200? Main reson why i didn't flirt with a diplo win. Am i missing something?

Congratz btw :goodjob:

No official submissions? Is this your 1st try?
 
How did you win by diplo when 3 quarters of cs are dead by turn 200? Main reson why i didn't flirt with a diplo win. Am i missing something?

Congratz btw :goodjob:

No official submissions? Is this your 1st try?

He nearly win, but fails in the end so still defeated.
 
How did you win by diplo when 3 quarters of cs are dead by turn 200? Main reson why i didn't flirt with a diplo win. Am i missing something?

Congratz btw :goodjob:

No official submissions? Is this your 1st try?
Hello!

Is your post responding to me? Or another post?

In my game, by Turn 200 there were still 10/16 city states left (2 more died before the game ended, which left half).

The Mongols took out 5, Spain took out 2, and Sweden took out 1. (I kept getting thrown off by Helsinki though, since it was a CS prior to G&K).

I ended up with 11 votes (4 AI's + 6 CS + UN), Gustavus had 3 (1 AI + 2 CS), and I threw Temujin a bone since everyone HATED him and gave him my vote, which he FAILED to reciprocate (ungrateful bastard!)!

Theoretically, you actually could win a Diplomatic Victory if 3/4 of the city states were gone, but then you would need to build the UN *and* get every single vote available (5 AI's + 4 CS + UN) so there's no margin for error and it might not be possible depending on the diplomatic relations between you and the AI's. In my game it would have been possible (if I remembered to ensure Temujin voted for me!).

Relying on a Diplomacy victory with just CS votes is risky due to their high mortality rate. That's why I often play my Diplomacy games focused on playing nice with the other AI's and getting their votes. However, that does limit my options since I have to avoid pissing them off so it's sometimes like playing with one hand tied behind my back. (Then again, the RA's from DoF's help speed you along to the Globalization tech).

This was my first try and I submitted it. I just don't like to post my submission details (including end date). :) I feel like GOTM is more about learning from each other than a strict competition focusing on finishing times. I think valuable things can be learned whether it's a Turn 100 or Turn 500 win, so I prefer to de-emphasize the dates.

BTW: I am playing the game a second time but this time focusing on Domination. Good start taking out Arabia but it's taking too long to kill Isabella. I'm worried that it will take too long before I can take out Persia. I'm wondering if maybe the best option is to take out Persia first.

P.S. Tabarnak, out of curiosity, how many city states died in your game? :D
 
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