Omani Empire

i was reading an topic about Armenia and i thought that there must still be some good civs that could be added that are not planned or European/Post-Colonial, then i was reading a topic which mentioned various food mechanics and it got me thinking along with slavery been implemented, Oman could make for an interesting civ to play.

since muscat is not exactly a thriving city spot i would think that there UP should be something to do with the capitol gaining x amount of food per cargo ship on the seas if that is possible.

historically they built there wealth on slavery and collapsed when it was banned so a UHV should be similar to Congo (i assume east Africa can be used to produce slaves).
second no European colony on east Africa which would suit them more than Ethiopia i think since they pushed the Portuguese out.
third build x amount of cargo ships.

i don't know a great deal about Oman but i would take a good bet they UU would be a boat of some sort, maybe a cheap one to build to offset its poor construction in muscat and its low food output so in essence this naval trading empire has to build a merchant fleet to prosper.

start date could vary it was settled around 750 but was under foreign rule from 930 until 1150 when they threw off the Seljuk then in 1515 it came under Portuguese rule until 1650 ish when it started to take Portuguese east Africa and profit from the slave trade so the latest(1650) time would probably be the best time to start them.
with the abolition of the slave trade in 1850s they collapsed.

anyone any ideas on it, i know other things are getting done i dont necessary think its essential but it would be a very challenging Asian colonial empire to be.

Not a bad idea. Could start around 1650 with UHVs:

1. Control the east coast of Africa, south and east coast of Arabia and southern Persia in 1850AD
2. Earn at least 1000 gold from the slave trade by 1850AD
3. Own at least 20 cargo ships in 1850AD / Control at least three oil resources in 1950

The first two historic and the last one could be aspirational based on keeping some control of the empire and the oil rather than collapsing after slavery.

I'm against this idea. I don't think it will add much to the current situation in the region. Oman would be a 1-3 city empire at best with little influence over anything but the immediate area. They would be strangled by Mecca and any coastal Persian city with ~300 turns of culture pushing on Masqat's culture. The land in the Arabian Peninsula is very poor aside from the oil and production would be a huge pain, especially in the early game. Lastly, Oman would just get conquered by the Portuguese by their TC, meaning if Oman spawned in 1650, they could possibly face invasion just a few turns after spawn. Not only that but most of Oman's empire is already covered by Mughals and Iran, so Oman would probably be relegated to nothing more than an indie.

Swarbs said:

Not a bad idea. Could start around 1650 with UHVs:

1. Control the east coast of Africa, south and east coast of Arabia and southern Persia in 1850AD
2. Earn at least 1000 gold from the slave trade by 1850AD
3. Own at least 20 cargo ships in 1850AD / Control at least three oil resources in 1950

The first two historic and the last one could be aspirational based on keeping some control of the empire and the oil rather than collapsing after slavery.

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This could work, as the space during that era is available (for Arabia almost always collapses and then is absorbed for the most part by the Ottomans) and is pretty much feasible. It certainly helped improve the original

However, Arabia would need to be reworked. Not only the Civ, but maybe the region as a whole. After all, Oman would need to be given it's own sphere of influence so that there are no Stabilities Issues for both them and Arabia (who would lose Muscat) and resources so it may grow in a competitive fashion.

1. Add a spice resource next to or under Muscat.
2. Make an independent city spawn on top of or next to the spice, calling it Muscat.
3. Portuguese Trading Company comes in.
4. After the Portuguese UHV check, Barbarians spawn next to the city and up and down the African Coast.
5. Make a more aggressive race for Africa by Europeans.
6. When Arabia respawns, it takes the barbarian (or Ottoman or Iranian) city and hopefully vassals to a European country or America.

Not to say Omani are barbarians, but that is the best way to represent their Empire as it:
a. Doesn't slow the game that much
b. Doesn't make a long-lasting Africa and Arabia spanning ultra-stable anti-European civilization. We already have the Ottomans for that.

I like Hippo's idea. I guess you could do the same thing for the Caucasus peoples also. Can anyone see a playable Seljuks idea?

I think Oman is quite adequately represented by Arabia (in it's core, usually founding garbage Cities there) as well as it's inclusion in SoI. Armenia was at least briefly a regional power and has its own language & a long antiquity.

Speaking of underrepresented regions, did anyone suggest a central asian civ and what was reaction to it? There is much more empty land near Samarkand/Kazakhstan area than in Oman or Caucasus.

Kokturk said:

Speaking of underrepresented regions, did anyone suggest a central asian civ and what was reaction to it? There is much more empty land near Samarkand/Kazakhstan area than in Oman or Caucasus.

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A Sogdian civilization would be pretty cool. Center it on trade.

not that i think Oman were a super power but it had a large empire in the time when only Europe was supposed to i think to say it was not a power and armenia was briefly is well, wrong. i thought it would be fun to play more than anything,

barbarian Oman would make sense as they were almost just arab pirates, to twist a Mirabeau quote, Oman, is not a state with pirates, but pirates with a state.

if we were going to add a ancient power in that region i would prefer Hittites or Assyria if there were space than Armenia, but its all a bit tight around the middle east, past, present or future as it is more than adequently represented by Greece/Byzantium/Babylon/Persia/Phoenicia and even the romans/seljuks/mongols like to go in.

Seljuk would be interesting(fun) but they need to be wiped out, and that would not leave much time to wreak splendid horror on the world or would take the ottomans/Persia's deserved place in the throws of world superpowers.

kieranjtaylor said:

not that i think Oman were a super power but it had a large empire in the time when only Europe was supposed to i think to say it was not a power and armenia was briefly is well, wrong. i thought it would be fun to play more than anything,

barbarian Oman would make sense as they were almost just arab pirates, to twist a Mirabeau quote, Oman, is not a state with pirates, but pirates with a state.

if we were going to add a ancient power in that region i would prefer Hittites or Assyria if there were space than Armenia, but its all a bit tight around the middle east, past, present or future as it is more than adequently represented by Greece/Byzantium/Babylon/Persia/Phoenicia and even the romans/seljuks/mongols like to go in.

Seljuk would be interesting(fun) but they need to be wiped out, and that would not leave much time to wreak splendid horror on the world or would take the ottomans/Persia's deserved place in the throws of world superpowers.

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I wouldn't mind seeing Seljuks and Ottomans merged into Turks and have them spawn as the Seljuks but become the Ottomans at some point. Have a resurgent Iran collapse their Iranian Plateau holdings.

I would. Lets think about stability.

Real, playable Seljuks would have a stability problem larger than any other. Ottomans need to be stable for their birth. The Ottoman's have good balance and arguably the best AI at this point. It would be a shame to ruin it.

I addition, there were many real wars between the two. In general, the Ottomans need the Seljuks to clear the Middle East for the Mongols, such that the unbelievably overpowered late-game Arabia doesn't happen. The Seljuks bring a gateway for the Ottomans. A general Turk civilization would destabilize and collapse with the Mongols, no Ottomans afterwards, likely with Byzantium and Iran dominating the region later.

Pavel Chichikov said:

I like Hippo's idea. I guess you could do the same thing for the Caucasus peoples also. Can anyone see a playable Seljuks idea?

I think Oman is quite adequately represented by Arabia (in it's core, usually founding garbage Cities there) as well as it's inclusion in SoI. Armenia was at least briefly a regional power and has its own language & a long antiquity.

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Honestly no. They only emerged as a distinct civ in 985, split in around 1150AD, and were destroyed by the Mongols by 1250. That's barely 25 game turns so there'd be almost no scope to do anything as it stands.

The only way to fit the Seljuks in as playable would be if we added the Gokturks from around 550AD to around 1250AD. Possible UHVs to conquer all of Central and Eastern Asia and Persia by 1000AD; convert to Islam and build four mosques; and conquer Mesopotamia, Egypt and Anatolia by 1250AD.

They would help add a decent civ to the vacant Asian areas, and they could also collapse and be largely replaced by Mongols in the west, boosting the strength of AI Mongols and helping them get more territory in Persia and Mesopotamia?

I wasn't serious on that, by the way.

Kokturk said:

Speaking of underrepresented regions, did anyone suggest a central asian civ and what was reaction to it? There is much more empty land near Samarkand/Kazakhstan area than in Oman or Caucasus.

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"Empty land" is no criterion at all for any Civs inclusion imo.
Timurids and the rest are covered by barbarians.

Pavel Chichikov said:

I wasn't serious on that, by the way.



"Empty land" is no criterion at all for any Civs inclusion imo.
Timurids and the rest are covered by barbarians.

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I think it actually is. Otherwise, Congo would not be in.

Congo already had a native city spawn there. The natural continuation with the lack of Native African civilizations was to put in the Congo, which had synergy with the already planned slave system.