All Theocracies should work as Arabia

Oregon Lee

Oregon Lee

Royal Tenenbaum
Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Messages
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Wiping out the old religion and putting in the new one. This would allow Spain's viceroyalties to not weirdly become Buddhist or something, and the Crusades to work a bit more smoothly. I've been doing that in World Builder playing as the Byzantines, and boy is it great. Arabia shouldn't have some divine superpower able to convert religion, I mean... the Byzantines were the king of conversion of religion. (Constantine)
 
Yeah and I disagree it should just be Islam. It's just that most theocracies that have fought other religions have been Muslim. But that's discluding the Byzantines, who are being shorthanded.
 
Make Persecution available with Theology. Done.
 
Actually I'm pretty sure it doesn't work in 1.10. There has been a python exception I keep getting towards late game, but without Leoreth I didn't feel like reporting it would do any good.

By the time I would actually want to use it instead of building other things though, I am already in Secularism. Something good to do might be to make a rather expensive national wonder, Inquisition, which requires state religion in all cities and one with a non-state. It makes it such that Persecution instability, unhappiness, and disorder turns are lowered.
 
Prosecution takes time, Arabia's UP doesn't. That's the point of this thread.
 
Not sure how about the Byzantines being the "kings of conversion" - all their efforts to reconcile Orthodoxy and Monophysitism failed; during their 10th century military resurgences they likely didn't annex majority Muslim lands, and didn't prove themselves to be especially fervent in converting the Muslims in these lands, either.
 
Royal Tenenbaum said:
Yeah and I disagree it should just be Islam. It's just that most theocracies that have fought other religions have been Muslim. But that's discluding the Byzantines, who are being shorthanded.
Click to expand...

Byzantium was never a Theocracy at any point in it's history, the Church was always in thrall to the Emperors. It was a high-priority naturally, but it never governed policy.
 
Royal Tenenbaum said:
Prosecution takes time, Arabia's UP doesn't. That's the point of this thread.
Click to expand...

And it's also unrealistic; religious minorities persisted for centuries after and even still today, as was pointed out in another thread. Rather than give the arabian UP to everyone else, I'd go in the exactly opposite direction: Change the arabian UP so it doesn't remove other religions.
 
Not really... they exist predominantly there today under the same conditions Jews had in Europe back in the 11th century. Sunnis still launch pogroms against their co-religionist Shia neighbhors ffs.
 
Pavel Chichikov said:
Not really... they exist predominantly there today under the same conditions Jews had in Europe back in the 11th century. Sunnis still launch pogroms against their co-religionist Shia neighbhors ffs.
Click to expand...

And yet both are still around. We're not talking about persecution here, but about the arab UP that removes other religions. The survival of religious minorities in several arab countries to this day is testimony that this aspect of Arab's UP is not realistic. Furthermore, it's also unwanted as far as I am concerned. I'd like the religions to stay so I can build the wonders.
 
That's not realistic for the wonders though.
 
Yeah, and its also not realistic as Spain and Portugal for me to immediately take over the African Moors to get Islam so that I can get the wonders. If I were truly determined, Rome isn't too hard to take as Arabia and switching out of Theocracy for a bit isn't very hard either.

Why not generalize to if you have a state religion, it spreads and you have to persecute to remove. You basically get this with Pantheon and Free Religion, so why not expand it to the other religion civics.
 
In historical/game terms, Shari'ah law doesn't allow for the building of new Christian Churches, and nearly all of the major ones were converted into Mosques, so the power might as well stay as it is.
A really obvious solution to all this would just make the wonders require x-faith as the State religion.
 
^That basically makes all non-Catholic, Protestant and Muslim civilizations uncompetitive.

I'm with Barbuesque on this one. Gameplay flexibility trumps... inflexible game design.
For the player, in many instances, it's not possible to grow your Economy without building Wonders.
Completing Wonders every turn that is a multiple of 3, when the game re-calculates your stability, (while controlling other factors) will ensure steady growth.
Taking that away would nerf most non-Western European civilizations (in the hands of the player).

The current restriction of the city requiring the religion is enough.

As for OP, Royal Tenenbaum's suggestion, I like it.
I think in conjunction with some, but not all of iOnlySignIn's proposed Muslim World Enhancements, we can get something good going.
 
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