C2C - Sea Curents and Wind Direction

This idea has been around since Rom/AND. I can't seem to find the topics on these but I know they were brought up before. However time has passed and I think it could be some with the team we have now. Here are the main ideas ...

Sea Currents
Ocean currents would be a terrain feature for coastal and ocean tiles that could be either generated when the game starts or chnage during the game. They could do the following ...

- Increase or decrease the speed of ships and subs moving on that tile based on which direction they are moving.

- Increase the yield of Tidal Harness improvements. Or possibly be a requirement.

- Warm or Cool the land nearby. Such as how the UK is warmer than it should be because of the gulf stream.

- Push around Water Pollution.

- Influence weather such as hurricanes.

Wind Direction
This would be a terrain feature on land and in the water. Like the sea currents it could either generated when the game starts or chnage during the game. They could do the following ...

- Increase or decrease the speed of sailing ships and aircraft.

- Increase the yield of Windmill, Wind Trap, Sea Mill and Desert Windmill improvements. Or possibly be a requirement.

- Warm or Cool the land nearby.

- Push around Air Pollution.

- Influence weather such as storms, blizzards, sandstorms, tornadoes, etc.

Warm vs Cold

Each of these could have a warm or cold factor as well as direction and strength.

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What do you guys think? Could such a system be put in place? I am not even sure if would need graphics. Just hover over the tile to get info about wind and sea current.

Hydromancerx said:

What do you guys think? Could such a system be put in place? I am not even sure if would need graphics. Just hover over the tile to get info about wind and sea current.

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I think that GeoRealism is going to calculate these things at the game start, if we really want to add these effects we could just save those values. That said, saves are already getting pretty big, and I don't think that we will be able to upload saves in the Industrial Era on a large map as the forum won't accept attachments over 10 MB.

I had the same thought, ls, but I'm not worried about the upload limit. Files can be compressed and/or uploaded to mediafire for sharing. Just as easy as doing it right on the site here and doesn't come along with the cleanup demands once you reach your volume limits.

Still, H, this is something I wouldn't focus on myself for some many projects to come before it. Great future direction I think, but really future if I'm involved.

This is just brainstorming ideas. I have no real model for them.

1. If you wanted land locations to have wind speed as well it could effect the speed of aircraft.

2. I know this one would be crazy, but if you wanted spread of plants..you could have the wind effecting the spread of seeds. The spread of genetic modified plants could be shown in this way. For example your neighbor has contaminated your natural plants with genetically modified plants.

3. If you want something abstractly to base animal migration patterns on, and if you want a more robust animal AI. The wind could be a system to direct them to locations because grazing animals would want to follow patterns of plants. The plants could sprout along different wind corridors, but of course the terrain would matter as well.

4. You could then show weather systems on land as well. Like where does the storm system move to once on land.

5. The craziest idea of them all. The manipulation of the wind could be a way of waging weather warfare by allowing active players to change one location on the map and start a chain of reaction of changes on the the entire weather system. This though would mean changing the entire map after starting the game. Not very likely to be done.

6. Or if you got rivers working for navigation the wind could effect boat speed on inland rivers, and inland lakes as well.

Anyway again, I just brainstormed over it. Nothing is a really concrete idea. All of it is more complicated since you have land features that deter wind versus the water is usually more open.

We have weather related tech's and it should decide what weather map improvements our civ is aware.

@johny smith

Weather warfare sounds cool!

They "say" not confirmed of course, that the US government is controlling some of the weather right now?? THEORIST at least.

strategyonly said:

They "say" not confirmed of course, that the US government is controlling some of the weather right now?? THEORIST at least.

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HAARP conspiracy theories but all mayor nations know how to affect their weather (Rain, Snow and cloud dispersal)

Even though we DO NOT posess the technology to reliably affect the weather now we probably could during the Transhuman era. In fact, we have the Weather Control tech from RoM, so I don't think it would be unreasonable to use that offensively.

I don't know why its so friggin hard to believe that we have so much more ability to do things than the government (and powerful businesses with interests in maintaining the status quo) would ever let us know, that misinformation is spread as scientific data simply to throw people off who don't have the same direct tools to repeat the same tests.

If we DO have weather control to an extremely powerful and potentially weaponizable degree, which I don't see as any stretch to believe at all, then the LAST people who would know it would be the public because it would be not only illegal to use it but would also be held as a 'secret' weapon for as long as it could be covered up.

And that goes for so much else I suspect we can do that has doubts cast upon in the public eye via media control. It's like the news would have us believe we already know everything when I'm quite certain we may know maybe 10% of the picture. And furthermore, the media will attempt to convince you, as if it were a fact, that if you don't believe in these fringe psuedo-scientists and conspiracy nuts that are spouting BS for selfish motives like grasping for fame, then you are sane and have all the rights to tell everyone who thinks there's more to the story just how idiotic that view is. Here's my (admittedly opinionated) news flash... if you believe that, then well-done citizen!... you've accepted your public programming and part of that psychological warfare applied towards our own people has also been to get your help in spreading the same propaganda as if it were fact to those around you.

Let us not forget that no sooner had man taken a bit of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, upon figuring it out, one of the first things God states is, "Let him not also eat from the fruit of the tree of Life, lest they become immortal as we!" My point? Those in control are not about trying to let us know what power may be possessed and wielded lest we match those in control ourselves and be equally dangerous. We're meant to serve without realizing we serve.

Make no mistake, Haarp is the most powerful technology EVER put in use in human control. Weather control is just shaving the surface of what it can and is doing.

On a side note "Haarp" would be a cool Wonder to have at Weather Control tech.

Agreed but AIAndy is in intense opposition to it so if we did so it'd have to be an option. I have some wicked cool ideas as to how to design it though since I have done a lot of reading on the subject.

Thunderbrd said:

Agreed but AIAndy is in intense opposition to it so if we did so it'd have to be an option. I have some wicked cool ideas as to how to design it though since I have done a lot of reading on the subject.

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Are there any conspiracy theories that you don't believe in?
So radio waves with such a low transmission power that the energy density it transfers to the ionosphere is several magnitudes lower than the power of the sun on the same area is supposed to change weather patterns?
I assume you also believe that you can redirect a river by hitting it yourself with a stick.

There may be some super duper secret devices changing weather, but if someone knew they could not talk about it. But there are real things that have not been kept secret.

For example Cloud Seeding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

The USA used cloud seeding to try and prevent hurricanes.

China blasted particulars in the air to clean up smog for the olympics in Beijing.

johny smith said:

There may be some super duper secret devices changing weather, but if someone knew they could not talk about it. But there are real things that have not been kept secret.

For example Cloud Seeding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_seeding

The USA used cloud seeding to try and prevent hurricanes.

China blasted particulars in the air to clean up smog for the olympics in Beijing.

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That works to a degree, not for anything like hurricanes but it can induce precipitation in clouds (that might have rained down elsewhere) or reduce the size of hail (by causing more but smaller pieces to form).

Moving on, I think that no one will disagree that it is reasonable to have Weather Control by the end of the TH era (like we do now) when we are able to colonize and terraform other planets. So let's keep any weather related stuff for that tech and get back on topic.

I know the stuff does not work great, but it is a predecessor for later future tech. I never said lets say there is a weather death machine right now. Just my point is you could have not so good tech now that only effects the the weather very slightly, and build from these not so great techs.

AIAndy said:

Are there any conspiracy theories that you don't believe in?
So radio waves with such a low transmission power that the energy density it transfers to the ionosphere is several magnitudes lower than the power of the sun on the same area is supposed to change weather patterns?
I assume you also believe that you can redirect a river by hitting it yourself with a stick.

Click to expand...

We've never developed transmission power of the magnitude we have in that project. It dwarfs anything we've ever done. Comparing it to the Sun may yet be a bit silly BUT when the sun does it, it does so as a blanket effect, rather than the pinpointed focused power this thing can deliver the ionosphere.

If it were insignificant, it would be pointless. The official purpose of HAARP is a tool to heat the ionosphere (so that we may research the effects of expansion and contraction of the ionosphere on Global Weather patterns and radio interactions.) If it didn't have the power to significantly heat the Ionosphere and create artificial expansion, it wouldn't be able to do its 'innocent' job.

Perhaps I'd side with you on this one if I hadn't seen the effect of it going online in Alaska, rippling out through the sky over our heads from my vantage point in North Idaho, like a boulder had been dropped in an aurora borealis pool. It is not an insignificant amount of energy they can direct at the ionosphere.

Surely you must admit that there's going to be published material out there to minimize, in all to scientific and official terms, that the weaponizable aspect of HAARP is insignificant. I don't see why that's more believable than the simple observation that the military built this so it IS a weapon or is useful for strategic warfare purposes (even if just to communicate with subs at the bottom of the ocean.)

It just doesn't sit well to accept arguments that claim that HAARP represents no big deal when you look at all the potential it actually may have if theories that could not be tested until it now exists prove true. If weather control isn't what it's best utilized for, I'm sure there's other applications that it can and will be used for, but weather control is actually not what I feel is its greatest potential 'power'.

Most of Tesla's unfinished works carry a lot more strategic weaponized applicability than most would suspect... And it is absolutely apparent that HAARP is the military's first attempt to use his technologies on this large a scale.


From a game perspective, I feel HAARP should be held aside as a modern 'punk' alternative timeline element. I can admit that all the conspiracy theorists have compiled on the subject may be potentially an unnecessary warning... but if it weren't, HAARP could be a good 'flavor' element for what the future would in retrospect look back at our era and put in a very similar light as cannons blasting us off to mars... as the theories of the time that might've been true.

Thunderbrd said:

We've never developed transmission power of the magnitude we have in that project. It dwarfs anything we've ever done. Comparing it to the Sun may yet be a bit silly BUT when the sun does it, it does so as a blanket effect, rather than the pinpointed focused power this thing can deliver the ionosphere.

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The transmission power per cm² it hits is in the area of µW, far lower than the amount from the sun on the same area.

If it were insignificant, it would be pointless. The official purpose of HAARP is a tool to heat the ionosphere (so that we may research the effects of expansion and contraction of the ionosphere on Global Weather patterns and radio interactions.) If it didn't have the power to significantly heat the Ionosphere and create artificial expansion, it wouldn't be able to do its 'innocent' job.

Click to expand...

Sigh, you are just reading sources that don't know what they are talking about. Are you even aware what heating means in this context?

Perhaps I'd side with you on this one if I hadn't seen the effect of it going online in Alaska, rippling out through the sky over our heads from my vantage point in North Idaho, like a boulder had been dropped in an aurora borealis pool. It is not an insignificant amount of energy they can direct at the ionosphere.

Surely you must admit that there's going to be published material out there to minimize, in all to scientific and official terms, that the weaponizable aspect of HAARP is insignificant. I don't see why that's more believable than the simple observation that the military built this so it IS a weapon or is useful for strategic warfare purposes (even if just to communicate with subs at the bottom of the ocean.)

Click to expand...

HAARP research is not classified at all, so you can check if you want. Of course the military is interested in research on the ionosphere which influences communication. But that doesn't make all communication devices weapons.

It just doesn't sit well to accept arguments that claim that HAARP represents no big deal when you look at all the potential it actually may have if theories that could not be tested until it now exists prove true. If weather control isn't what it's best utilized for, I'm sure there's other applications that it can and will be used for, but weather control is actually not what I feel is its greatest potential 'power'.

Most of Tesla's unfinished works carry a lot more strategic weaponized applicability than most would suspect... And it is absolutely apparent that HAARP is the military's first attempt to use his technologies on this large a scale.

Click to expand...

Ah, yes, conspiracy theories, so the name of Tesla is not far off.

I can see your rationale and can agree to disagree. I hope you're right actually.