LK44, 1.14 patch, AW suicide mission

World Size = Standard
Continents = 40%, wet, warm and 5 billion years.
Difficulty = Emperor
Barbarians = Sedentary, this will be hard enough without barb problems.
# Civs = 7
NOT culturally linked, NO restarting players.

Civ = (open to debate)
I am again going to attempt to start an emperor always war game.

This game will require a reasonable start before I pass it to the next player.
My definition of reasonable so far is:
1) Can't start in a jungle rot area
2) Can't start point-blank range of another Civ, as the starting units will equal death.

I will open the expansion of the list if I get five players. One idea that came to mind is no Vikings, as dealing with coastal cities under siege will make the game even harder. I don't even know if emperor can be beat aw style.

This is intentionally 1.14.
I don't want to lock out non USA players.

Mandatory requirements
Play The World Expansion
Deity experience is mandatory
AW experience is preferred.

Signed up:
LKendter
Open
Open
Open
Open

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.

We are still playing with the 1.14 patch

I'd be up for this.

What about England, expansionist so we can grab some techs and commercial to make up for the fact that we will be stuck in monarchy. [no guts, no glory]

[Edit:] Man-O-War is the most awesome wooden hulled UU available. But it does suck, I'd rely on wonders to get a GA instead of them.

Signed up:
LKendter
Cartouche Bee
Open
Open
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Once we get 5 players we will debate civs.
Expansionist is nice for the high chance of settler / city.
However, the Man-O-War sucks for a UU.

Once we get 3 more we can start the civ debate in detail.

Now I don't mind missing out on LK43 if I can get in on this one.

England - forget it. Expansionist is terrible in AW - your scout is dead as soon as it meets another civ, remember? And a city from a hut comes with no defender and is dead if another civ reaches it within 10 turns. And we'll want a Golden Age much sooner than the Man-O-War.

We could go with the old standby of Greece, or solid Japan, or powerhouse Persia. I can't think of any expansion civ that's really well suited for AW. Carthage is just a wannabe Greece. Celts are a maybe, although I'd think the losses suffered would be too high for the Gallic Sword to help. The Vikings can of course tear apart the medieval age, if they can survive the ancient.

Anyway, count me in.

Signed up:
LKendter
Cartouche Bee
T-hawk
Open
Open

Once we get 5 players we will debate civ.

Don't knock expansionist in AW. In our Viking and Mongol games of AW we got a nearby bonus city. That is huge for a game like this.

Expansionist also means contacts sooner, and as we know, that makes AW games harder. It's a gamble, which I don't think would be worth taking.

The Iroquois and Vikings are the only expansionists worth considering, IMO.

Do keep in mind the advantages of Scientific - the obvious ones with us having to do our own research, but also there's the free Nationalism tech when we get there, which pretty much instantly means we won't lose.

With LK43 and soon to be RBP7, I am maxed out for games now. But I will be following this one closely and hope that all goes well for you.

How about the Germans, we could get our golden age by stealing wonders. I think we would almost have to nab the GL in this one just as before. Oh, yea, sign me up.

Lee, my deity experience is weak, but my always war is many. I'd like in since LK42 should end soon. Your call.

BTW, the Ottomans are scientific and industrious, and the Sipahi are awesome...if you can make it to Mil Trad...I think we have an old always war to prove it, though at Monarch difficulty.

I think doing it with England on continents would be a feather in our hats but a safer bet may be wise.

Conventional thinking puts Greece in the forefront (scientific and commercial) but a military civ (like meldor suggests) should be also be considered since it is AW.

To be honest, I think we could do it with any civ if we get a decent start, so don't expect me to worry over which one we pick, we will use them to it's best advantage, what ever it is.

Signed up:
LKendter
Cartouche Bee
T-hawk
Meldor
Open


@Mystery13 - IMHO a deity game will be easier to win then this one. Would you be comfortable going above deity?

=======================

I have decide to trim the list of possible civs:
Worthless UU - Korea, America, Celts (we can't afford 20 shields for move 2), Carthage (if we want a 3 defense unit Greece is better), France (extra attack for a defense unit), Spain, England

I don't want a despotism GA for a weak unit - Egypt, Aztecs, Babylon, Zululand,

This leaves the below as marginal:
Arabia (I think the rider is better, even if this one is 10 shields less)
Germany (military and science, awesome uu, but game decided by the time it arrives)
Mongols (military and expansion, but the uu is to fragile)


This leaves the below as high possibility
China (military and industrious, awesome uu)
Greece (scientific and commercial, great defense,
India (commercial and religious, guaranteed our uu)
Iroquois (expansionist and religious, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Persia (industrious and science, awesome uu and we don't face them, stuck with despotism GA)
Rome (military and commercial, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Japan (military and religion, great uu (no horses)
Scandinavia (military and expansionist, awesome uu)
Russia (science and expansionist, great uu, but a bit late)
Ottomans (science and industrious, killer uu)

Any comments on the above from the players signed up?

Lee, my AW experience is limited to 2 humiliating defeats on emperor (both due to close starting neighbors primarily), and one win on monarch, though I have not tried it recently and think I could handle it now as I believe my play has improved. I do beat Dieity most of the time. It's up to you.

Signed up:
LKendter
Cartouche Bee
T-hawk
Meldor
Mystery13 or ToddMarshall ?
Waiting on answer from Mystery13, Todd Marshall if Mystery13 declines.


My comment on reasonable start is about not encountering another civ in the first 30 moves, and getting a decent starting location. Sorry, but I refuse to try this with a jungle infested capitial.

Todd, you are welcome to start making comments on the Civ.

I'd like to use either Persia or the Iroquois. Both have a powerful ancient UU, which I think will make the difference in withstanding the initial rush from our opponents. Persia's is more powerful and lets us go on the offensive sooner (with industrious combat workers, too), while Iro's is a very nimble counterattacker against incoming units. Both civs have a cultural attribute, too. The Iros could be used if you crazies insist on an expansionist civ, and it's also a possibility to try hopping into Republic with them during times of low war activity - say, after we secure our continent - to grab an economic advantage.

A despotism Golden Age isn't really wasted, if you've gotten to expand to at least a few cities first. Also note that if the GA commerce boost gets us to research an improved government sooner, that's as good as having the GA in the new government. If we can survive long enough to get the UU (and the resource - the Iros have another advantage in that they get to see the resource a tech earlier than the UU becomes available), we should have a decent chance.

China (military and industrious, awesome uu)
Votes for: LKendter
Greece (scientific and commercial, great defense)
India (commercial and religious, guaranteed our uu)
Iroquois (expansionist and religious, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Votes for: T-hawk
Persia (industrious and science, awesome uu and we don't face them, stuck with despotism GA)
Votes for: T-hawk, LKendter
Rome (military and commercial, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Japan (military and religion, great uu (no horses)
Scandinavia (military and expansionist, awesome uu)
Russia (science and expansionist, great uu, but a bit late)
Ottomans (science and industrious, killer uu)
Votes for: LKendter

My votes are for primarily for any of the industrious civ as a shields sooner = more military sooner. That will make a MAJOR difference IMO.
If I remember correctly science gives you BW to start, which could be an important consideration.

A quick note about expansionnistic and AW: I did suffer a humiliating defeat in Monarch about 2 months ago... because all my opponents were expansionnistic. I was at war with the whole world circa 3000bc !
So expansionistic is awesome in an AW game... for the ai.

Shouldn't be a problem on a continents map, though (mine was pangea).

1. Greece. It provides a high survivability early in the game. The science trait provides both a science boost and cultural access. The commercial trait gives us more commerce, less corruption and a leg up on getting to map making.

2. Persia. Has the right traits also and gives us a running start on offense. I could not complain about this choice.

I'd say the best time for a GA would be when we have enough cities for the FP, either of these civs give us that capability.



I do hope that we pick a civ with the scientific trait over any other trait. I'm torn between industrious and commercial as the second trait and I think either could provide substantial benefits. The religious trait could provide some benefit under ideal situations but I'd prefer to be sure that we get some sort of guaranteed return on our pick of traits. The military trait would also be nice but I think we will shoot for Sun Tzu.

Japan, Rome and Persia would suit my taste unless we want to take the easy way out and go for Hoplites.

Edit: looks like Persia is getting a lot of votes. I've never actually played them so I think I'm just down to Persia and Greece above other choices.

China (military and industrious, awesome uu)
Votes for: LKendter
Greece (scientific and commercial, great defense)
Votes for: Cartouche Bee
India (commercial and religious, guaranteed our uu)
Iroquois (expansionist and religious, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Votes for: T-hawk
Persia (industrious and science, awesome uu and we don't face them, stuck with despotism GA)
Votes for: T-hawk, LKendter, Cartouche Bee, ToddMarshall
Rome (military and commercial, great uu, stuck with despotism GA)
Votes for: ToddMarshall
Japan (military and religion, great uu (no horses)
Votes for: ToddMarshall
Scandinavia (military and expansionist, awesome uu)
Russia (science and expansionist, great uu, but a bit late)
Ottomans (science and industrious, killer uu)
Votes for: LKendter

I still want to hear Meldor, but it is looking like Persia.
My #1 trait is industrious.
Cartouche Bee #1 trait is scientific.
I am unsure with the others.

Prefered traits, scientific, industrious, milataristic, so-so commercial (yes, this makes Japan an odd pick for me, but they just seem to fit an AW setting *shrug*). Other traits aren't nearly as useful in AW it seems to me.