Everyone irrationally hates Burgundy

Royal Tenenbaum · Mar 1, 2013

I just played a game, and in 1000 AD was at war with France (who I ended up having to raise all their cities except Bordeaux, yet they still were saying "We're doing fine on our own!" so I couldn't capitalize them), the Vikings (who wouldn't cease fire with me even though they declared war dozens of turns ago and didn't do anything except block Flanders. They demanded I give them Cologne, even though I had the largest military), the Arabs (crusades), the Cordobans (sent one lone knight into my land to just pillage, even though they were being slaughtered by the Spanish), and the Spanish!
All of them except Arabia declared war on me. I wanted to play a peaceful game, but the constant irrational wars forced me to make the largest army -- yet that just made them want to commit suicide even quicker.

ezzlar · Mar 1, 2013

Some geographical positions create more tensions than others. Nothing wrong there.

iOnlySignIn · Mar 1, 2013

They all hate your overpowered UU.

Seriously though, there are several things to know:

- Faith points. Your Culture goal would require you to build religious buildings anyway. If your Faith Points is high enough, the Catholics will like you. Spain in particular will be Pleased and not DOW.

- War with France is inevitable. And France will drag other civs into war with you, because they have high Faith Points due to their early start. You need to isolate them diplomatically as much as possible.

- Genoa & France: Try to provoke them, but don't declare on them - declaring on them will give you relations penalty with other Catholics. If Genoa declares on you, seize the opportunity to wipe them out. Their land is good.

- Cordoba: You should be declaring on them and pillaging their land instead! This will give you better relations with Spain, and any other Catholics (often several) at war with Cordoba. If Spain asks you to declare on Cordoba, ACCEPT.

- Vikings: Disregard them. Unless you're controlling Saxony (which you really don't need - invade Italy instead) they will do nothing more than blockading Flanders. They will collapse quite easily by themselves. If you're feeling insecure, ask Germany to DOW on the Vikings as early as possible. They are usually happy to.

- Germany and England: They both have hidden relations bonus with Burgundy. Build on that. Call for common wars. Get them (and Spain) happy enough to sign Defensive Pacts which lead to more common wars. You could wipe out Germany if you want - you need to time it before they get their UU. But always, always build good relations with England. They are your best ally against France.

Royal Tenenbaum · Mar 1, 2013

iOnlySignIn said:
They all hate your overpowered UU.

Seriously though, there are several things to know:

- Faith points. Your Culture goal would require you to build religious buildings anyway. If your Faith Points is high enough, the Catholics will like you. Spain in particular will be Pleased and not DOW.

- War with France is inevitable. And France will drag other civs into war with you, because they have high Faith Points due to their early start. You need to isolate them diplomatically as much as possible.

- Genoa & France: Try to provoke them, but don't declare on them - declaring on them will give you relations penalty with other Catholics. If Genoa declares on you, seize the opportunity to wipe them out. Their land is good.

- Cordoba: You should be declaring on them and pillaging their land instead! This will give you better relations with Spain, and any other Catholics (often several) at war with Cordoba. If Spain asks you to declare on Cordoba, ACCEPT.

- Vikings: Disregard them. Unless you're controlling Saxony (which you really don't need - invade Italy instead) they will do nothing more than blockading Flanders. They will collapse quite easily by themselves. If you're feeling insecure, ask Germany to DOW on the Vikings as early as possible. They are usually happy to.

- Germany and England: They both have hidden relations bonus with Burgundy. Build on that. Call for common wars. Get them (and Spain) happy enough to sign Defensive Pacts which lead to more common wars. You could wipe out Germany if you want - you need to time it before they get their UU. But always, always build good relations with England. They are your best ally against France.

I don't see the effect of the bonus with Germany and England. Germany is annoyed with me even though I have 30 faith points because of our borders.
Is there a strategy thread on this forum? If not, someone (or me) should make one.

Bamboozle · Mar 1, 2013

Well the game itself says it will be hard to defend your position. And it historically was hard for Burgundy to defend itself. They had to contend with the two other kingdoms after the treaty of Vurdun; the Germans; the Franks; the Swiss... the list goes on.

The game doesn't distinguish between the various kingdoms and duchies of Burgundy, which is a small pain. The Burgundian state existed in spurts rather than a protracted time period, mainly caused by the enemies listed above.

I for one suggest to split the Kingdom of Burgundy and the Duchy of Burgundy into two civs, although that would be rather ridiculous.

Spirictum · Mar 2, 2013

I would say: Take Paris at once! :cool:

If you can take Paris ASAP, the game is yours. But I don't know if this is still possible (I managed to do that when I played Burgundy on Beta 13)

AbsintheRed · Mar 12, 2013

Bamboozle said:
The game doesn't distinguish between the various kingdoms and duchies of Burgundy, which is a small pain. The Burgundian state existed in spurts rather than a protracted time period, mainly caused by the enemies listed above.

I for one suggest to split the Kingdom of Burgundy and the Duchy of Burgundy into two civs, although that would be rather ridiculous.

Would be a better representation historially, sure
But it wouldn't serve gameplay at all
Also, it could be said for many other civs too
Franks and France, the various Arab dynasties, etc...
Morocco will also represent both the Almohads and Almoravids

Something similar works reasonably well in SoI (Abbasids, Fatimids, Ayyubids, Mamluks for example)
In RFCE it would mess up with many of the base gameplay mechanics
Could you imagine that the French and the Germans doesn't spawn at all, because the Franks are still going strong?
Combined with the fact that Germany more or less represents the various HRE states

Everyone irrationally hates Burgundy

Royal Tenenbaum

Exiled

ezzlar

Emperor

iOnlySignIn

Prince$s

Royal Tenenbaum

Exiled

Bamboozle

Professional Bowel Mover

Spirictum

Immortal

AbsintheRed

Deity

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