Nobles' Club CXIX: Joao of Portugal

dalamb

dalamb

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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Joao of Portugal, whom we last played in NC LVII. The Portuguese start with Fishing and Mining.
PortugalJoao.jpg
  • Traits: Joao is Expansive and Imperialistic, making him an excellent REXer. IMP means 50% bonus on :hammers: for building settlers, and EXP means 25% :hammers: bonus on workers.
  • His UB: The Feitoria, a Customs House that gives +1:commerce: for water tiles.
    PortugalFeitoria.jpg

  • His UU: The Carrack, a superior Caravel. It can carry two of any type of unit, unlike the Caravel's single unit of a restricted set of types, and can enter ocean squares -- making it more like a Galleon, available with Optics instead of Astronomy. Thus he can cross oceans with settlers and military units with cheaper ships (60 :hammers: vs 80 at Normal speed) and a bit earlier than the AIs (Astronomy being an expensive tech, and requiring Calendar as well as Optics). Thus on some maps an Optics beeline might be appropriate.
    PortugalCarrack.jpg
And the start:
start_zps0dede9b8.jpg

Spoiler map details :
Custom continents, 3 continents.
Spoiler edits :
Added the crabs. Extended the river. Turned the flat plains 1NW into a forested hill.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 119 Joao Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

That's a lot of production!

Settle in place, Ag -> BW, build worker, chop out workboat eventually?
 
GLH Pros: A. We're coastal. B. We start with fishing and mining for quick access to sailing and masonry. C. Look at all that production. D. We're imperialistic which will help for spamming coastal cities. I'm sold.
 
I haven't finished de Gaulle game yet. Looking forward to this one ;). I love Joao's Theme music! Its really the best music in the whole game!! Don't you agree?
 
I played through Liberalism.

Spoiler :
I've got the Great Abusehouse and more cities than anyone else in the world without a war. Boudica and Isabella have been at war for well over a thousand years now, with Izzy down to two cities, but Boudica's teching slowly because she's committed to warring. Huayna and Gandhi have gotten along fine and are more advanced but still backward, while Mao and Toku are not buddies, have no religion, and are even more backward. So it's really just a matter of marching troops around and winning.

Don't know if I'll play this one out, but the Great Lighthouse is really, really good on this map.
 
Monarch, NHNE (question for NC staff - even when I open a specific difficulty file, I still have to then select the difficulty level as they all default to noble. Is this right or am I doing something wrong? The settings screen says I'm on monarch).

Best translation of "coastal REXer" I think, based on never playing Portugal before, Gwynnja's note about our coastal start, our unique abilities stacked for REX, our coastal UB is a super custom house (which admittedly I haven't frequently built) and which synergize with GLH.

4000 BC outlook
SIP - nice PH river
Tech: Ag, then BW. Will need masonry/sailing soon.
Build order: I considered WB first but even with our capital PH tile it is still 15 turns. I will do worker first and hook up the wet corn for 5F tile.
Explore:
Spoiler :
warrior 1E shows gold :)
. Looking to scout good coastal city sites.
 
@dmd: I'm gonna host NC next time so hopefully you can count me in NC staff ;). You are doing everything right. When you choose the file, the host has added the techs to AI by editing the WB save. For example; If you choose noble file but you are gonna play at Monarch, the AI wont get his bonuses and extra techs so its not real Monarch then. Its cheating. However, remember to add techs to barbs (guide is in first post of every NC game. If you play settler-prince AI shouldn't get any bonus from techs at least. Then choose Noble save. Hopefully that is right info.
 
Robert FIN said:
@dmd: I'm gonna host NC next time so hopefully you can count me in NC staff ;). You are doing everything right. When you choose the file, the host has added the techs to AI by editing the WB save. For example; If you choose noble file but you are gonna play at Monarch, the AI wont get his bonuses and extra techs so its not real Monarch then. Its cheating. However, remember to add techs to barbs (guide is in first post of every NC game. If you play settler-prince AI shouldn't get any bonus from techs at least. Then choose Noble save. Hopefully that is right info.
Click to expand...

Thanks Robert-Fin; yes I picked monarch file and gave my barbs archery. I guess I'm not too familiar with the whole editing and map making, so if the staff adds techs to AI, could they also add the archery to barbs for monarch, etc? (again, it's probably I just don't understand the mapmaking/modding)
Good luck on hosting the next NC. Looking forward to it.
 
Thanks dmd. So... Why don't we add techs to barbs? Well I'm kinda new to editing too, but we make the edits with word editing tools like Wordpad and Open Office. I think that its not possible to add techs to barbs that way. Well, ask Oz and Dalamb for more details.
 
The barbs don't show up anywhere in the World Builder file, so it's impossible to add any techs to them. That's why you do the "zoom in really closely and give them Archery" thing.
 
I will be the first to whine. Please don't think I don't appreciate what you do, dalamb, because I sincerely am grateful for the series! :)

Spoiler :
But was it really necessary to add crabs and then a Plains hill 1 NW? :p We have double corn. One is riverside corn no less. There's also a forested plains hill 2N1W. We start on a plains hill. Will adding what you did make the start an instant 'win-button' so to speak? Not at all. But the edits are not necessary. Who's seriously going to open Workboat with a start like that? :mischief:


Anyways, I will move the warrior 1S and SIP if that doesn't screw us out of a fish. Joao is a very fun leader to play. Looking forward to this. :)
 
re the posts above about having to select difficulty even after picking a specific WBSave, here are the screens I see:

Spoiler Monarch WB Save :
QecmhXu.jpg


Spoiler Still defaults to Noble, even when I open the deity save?? :
zh6FGmR.jpg


Another question:
If you want to play custom scenario so you can "lock modified assets" (which I like, just to remove any potential for shenanigans from my play)
Spoiler warning in this spoiler there is info about the competing civs in NC 119 :
Spoiler LMA :
wa4D3Q7.jpg

Is it then impossible to give barbarians the tech they need? (since WB is locked)
 
Spoiler :

Turn 1-25
Ag > BW
Farmed corn, started mines
Build worker, warrior, warrior, warrior, WB (wouldn’t use crab before two corns anyway).

Turn 26-46
Meet Izzy who is west of us; most of my dot mapping was heading east, though to be fair I did not like it b/c not as much cottage overlap as I would like while preserving benefits of the small rivers and coastal positions. Instead, going to gamble on SH and go mysticism. I thought I could leverage expansive and take up some land with free monuments and this would help with pushing borders for barbarian defense. This will delay GLH a bit.
Tech: Mystisicm > sailing > masonry
Settler, Stonehenge, warrior, settler, warrior, lighthouse
Oporto founded 2600 BC 1N of gold (for happy resource).

I have my dotmap for cities east of capital, but trying to expand west since we know Isabella is there. The dotmapping is poor. For the life of me I cannot figure out reasonable overlap with capital; I mean I can overlap but the cities themselves are pretty poor. Any help on optimizing dotmap?
Spoiler Preliminary city location spots :
LGg11nw.jpg



 
Yes, here you change your difficulty;

2. screen - if you start via Play A Scenario
3. screen - if you start via Custom Scenario, so you can change your settings too

That's why I said in other thread "make sure you select correct difficulty in Scenario options after you load desired level save." post #3
Idk why game selects noble, maybe cause it's games default or cause you last played on noble, idk and it doesn't really matter as long as you select your.

No idea about LMA. You started the game with LMA, did you try to add techs to barbs in WB? If you say WB is locked, then you probably can't.
 
No idea about LMA. You started the game with LMA, did you try to add techs to barbs in worldbuilder? If you did, you should know then.
Click to expand...
I am playing the current game as a "play a scenario". Assets are not locked and I zoomed in and gave barbs archery.

I am asking for future games if it is possible to give barbs appropriate tech for level but still have locked assets. Sounds like, from Oz-Man, the answer is no:
The Oz-Man said:
The barbs don't show up anywhere in the World Builder file, so it's impossible to add any techs to them. That's why you do the "zoom in really closely and give them Archery" thing.
Click to expand...
 
World Builder save file he's referring to is "NC 119 Joao Monarch.CivBeyondSwordWBSave" (this is file they edit in WordPad or OO) not the in-game Worldbuilder.
 
4000 BC:
Spoiler :
SIP. 2 corn, both wet, and crabs. Yum yum. Looks like no-one's going to starve any time soon.
Plenty of hills - that's production sorted.
Teching Ag to get that corn. Building a Worker, also to get that corn.


1680 BC:
Spoiler :
Founded a second city, about to expand again. Just built TGL in capital :). Got both corn, although the more easterly is now in my second city's BFC. Who needs both in one city's BFC when it already has another Corn and Crabs? My second city also has that gold.
 
@dmd/NC club save makers re: saves defaulting to Noble difficulty
Spoiler :
A little WB save code stuff:
dmd, you're picking the right file. The reason that NC Club saves default to Noble is that the line designating the players handicap isn't changed (last line in each player's section). In fact, all of the players (human or AI) have their "Handicap=HANDICAP_NOBLE" line. I delete this line for the AI's for the SoM saves, and change the NOBLE to MONARCH or whatever difficulty for the human player. The latter changes the default human difficulty. It's not really a big deal either way though, as long as you check the difficulty before you start.

As for the first part: TMIT's map changing guide says to delete this line for the AI's, but from his description:
This should let the AI handicap vary by level, and if a human screws around with this and manages to switch civs, he won't have monarch + bonuses
Click to expand...
it sounds like it might not matter. Starting a normal Monarch level random game and looking at the WB save file shows that that line still says "Handicap=HANDICAP_NOBLE", so it might be an unnecessary change on my part.

I'm sure others know better than I what, if any, impact this has though.



Monarch, 1AD, No Huts, No Events
Spoiler :

I've gone on a bit of a relative wonder binge. Built Great Wall upon seeing the land to our east unopposed (not sure this was wise, but whatever). GLH, as mentioned, is ridiculous here. Also Oracle (took CoL). Expanded out quite a bit (11 cities with room for more). Imp/Exp is a really interesting combination, with three of the most important builds (workers, settlers, and granaries) being discounted.

I've settled two island cities that are kinda poor by themselves, but the "overseas" trade bonus that they get combined with the GLH makes them worth it.
I managed to settle the double gold/stone/pig that's a poke out to the west, and ended up building the mids in Lisbon. I was aiming for fail gold, but forgot to stop building and ended up finishing it. Certainly not the worst wonder to accidentally finish though. I've got a few more cities to settle, but I'm absolutely blowing Boudica and Izzy out of the water on tech already. Izzy's at four cities, too busy religioning and spreading hinduism. Wonders seem to be really slow, even for Monarch.
 
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