France's new UA and possible implications

Calouste

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Today we learned that France will have a new UA:
City of Light: Theming bonuses doubled in capital.

So if you have Great Works that fit a certain theme in a culture building, you get a bonus, and for France that bonus is doubled in the capital. We have seen so far that a Museum will have a theme for the period (so you get the bonus if for example you have two Renaissance Great Works), and that the bonus is 2 culture and 2 tourism, which is the same as the value generated by one Great Work on its own.

Implications:
1) Some UAs can apparently get a drastic overhaul. While the French UA retains its cultural theme, it goes from being more suited to a wide empire to something that explicitly encourages a tall capital and wonder building. I'd say that India, the Netherlands, Arabia and the Ottomans are also likely to see a change in UA now we know this.

2) So far in Civ5, every civilization's UA has given at least some benefit by at latest the Classical era. Even Austria could have married its first city state by that time. From what we know at the moment, the first building with two Great Work slots is the Museum, which becomes available in the Industrial era, which would make France's UA only work from that point. As the two more or less modern new civs that have been announced, Brazil and Poland, both have UA that work early on in the game, it seems unlikely that the design will be that Mediaeval and later civs will have a UA that only kicks in from that point (although their UB/UU/UI will still be tied to that period). So I think there are two options for France to get to use their bonus early: either they get an additional Great Works slot in their Palace, which would nicely fit in with the size and opulence of the Palace at Versailles, or there is an early game wonder with two Great Works slot, out of the current ones the likely candidate would be the Terracotta Army. The problem I see with the latter is that France's ability to use their UA is already going to be really tied into building a few specific wonders, the Louvre and most likely the Uffizi.
 
I get the feeling that France and Sweden will be best buds and France and Egypt, the worst of enemies.
 
While it does hinder France a bit before Renaissance, I think this bonus plus the UUs will make it a late game tourism beast, effectively countering Brazilian carnivals.

We need to remember that a) you can steal Great Works via conquest; and b) Amphiteathers and Opera Houses have a great work slot. This means that France can go on a rampage earlier (like the Franks did) and get some free great works from other civs, store them in the low-tier cultural buildings until Museums come by and then transfer them to Paris. Be the first to build the Louvre and you have great works from various (conquered) civs, so the theme bonus gets massive and doubled. By that time you'll have your Foreign Legions - why not conquer more? Plus, there are going to be new wonders with unknown abilities or great work slots.

It makes perfect sense, and since Poland gets a free policy every era, it kinda nullifies the old French UA by being too similar.
 
I can't help but think that's not the entire benefit of the UA. Otherwise that seems a little weak. Maybe they're also keeping their cultural bonus per city in some form.
 
The theme bonuses that Dennis showed seemed pretty small. I can't see how doubling them in one city is better than spreading out and having museums all over.

France will definitely want to generate Great Artists etc like crazy or aggressively capture Great Works to get the best matches. Get ready to work those artist slots.
 
Some people suggested it might be added on top of their currently existing UA, giving them a bonus after Steam Power.
 
The theme bonuses that Dennis showed seemed pretty small. I can't see how doubling them in one city is better than spreading out and having museums all over.

France will definitely want to generate Great Artists etc like crazy or aggressively capture Great Works to get the best matches. Get ready to work those artist slots.
We've seen that World Wonders accepting Great Works, and Museums, have themeing bonuses. Presumably the French will want to put as many such Wonders in their capital as they can. And then fill them appropriately.
 
I love this change, it's going to be a lot of fun marching foreign legions all over the place and stealing valuable artifacts to put in the Louvre :)
 
The theme bonuses that Dennis showed seemed pretty small. I can't see how doubling them in one city is better than spreading out and having museums all over.

France will definitely want to generate Great Artists etc like crazy or aggressively capture Great Works to get the best matches. Get ready to work those artist slots.

There are no longer any artist slots, they have been replaced by Great Work slots. (Slots for merchants, scientists and engineers still exist though). My guess is that Great Artists will be born after you have generated a certain amount of culture, similar to Great Prophets and faith.

Doubling the theme bonuses in one city would be better if you still have the per city percentage enhancers on culture that now come with Alahambra, the Sistine Chapel, the Hermitage, and one policy in the Piety tree that I can't remember the name of (which will most likely move to the new Aesthetics tree). Keep in mind that the raw number of culture looks like it is going to be about half of GnK, with for example the Amphitheater going from 3 base culture + 3 for running an artist (which you can more or less always do) to 1 base culture + 2 for having a Great Work (of which there is a limited supply).
 
Some people suggested it might be added on top of their currently existing UA, giving them a bonus after Steam Power.

Doubtful, considering the name change to City of Light. If there is more to the UA, it will 95% certain only affect the capital. Also, 2 culture per city is a heck of a lot when the culture buildings we have seen so far (Amphitheater, Opera House, Museum) only give 1 base culture.
 
Hey Guys I normally don't post but I noticed while he was looking at the Warsaw City screen that the tourism received a 25% bonus from having Opened Borders with France. So I have no idea why that would be a benefit for France themselves but it was there.

Maybe they realized nobody ever lets Napoleon have Open Borders.


John
 
I get the feeling that France and Sweden will be best buds and France and Egypt, the worst of enemies.

I foresee quite a few civ reenactments of Napoleon's 1798 expedition to Egypt :D Just make sure you have researched Archeology already.
 
Hey Guys I normally don't post but I noticed while he was looking at the Warsaw City screen that the tourism received a 25% bonus from having Opened Borders with France. So I have no idea why that would be a benefit for France themselves but it was there.

Maybe they realized nobody ever lets Napoleon have Open Borders.


John

You get a 25% Tourism bonus for having Open Borders with everyone. The screenshot says "25% bonus from having Opened Borders with : France". The colon indicates that a list follows, the same format used for example to show the cities that don't have the required buildings yet when you hover over a National Wonder you can't build yet.
 
The theme bonuses that Dennis showed seemed pretty small. I can't see how doubling them in one city is better than spreading out and having museums all over.

France will definitely want to generate Great Artists etc like crazy or aggressively capture Great Works to get the best matches. Get ready to work those artist slots.

Probably,this bonus will be for all the great works housed in the capital and not just for Museums .
 
The UA doesn't seem so bad when you consider that you get to use your two UUs to steal great works from other civs.

It also seems that if you get a theme early enough, combined with the new reduced culture output of cultural buildings, that you can be popular in all other civs by the time tourism become important. Even increasing a theme bonus from +1 to +2 would be a pretty good enhancement.

Now that I look at it that way, it seems like a pretty cool UA.
 
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