RBP7 - Defiant Nationalists of China

RBP7 - Defiant Nationalists of China

It's time for a rematch, nay, a grudge match! Combined arms from
the proud RBP5 DEFN team and the prevailing RBP6 MOW squad of doom
are out for blood. It takes the form of a variant deity game with
some lethal restrictions. Rules are as follows...

A 'Defiant' civ takes "no guff!", never giving in to tribute demands or paying for peace
The Nationalist in Civilization has a supreme view of itself as a nation, putting its own
interests first above all others, shuns globalism, and has a keen view of independence.

The proposed "Defiant Nationalist" rules are:
* No giving in to tribute, ever. That includes never paying for peace.
* May never sign mutual protection pacts, military alliance, right of passage, or embargo
* Any troops in your land must be told to leave immediately
* No capturing of foreign cities or demanding cities in tribute (flips/propaganda are ok)
* No qualms about dastardly actions in the best interest of our nation
(e.g., steal tech, military blockades, wars of aggression, neutral pillaging...)
* If an AI razes one of your cities, it must be eliminated (timeframe up to you)
* Foreign workers may never be added to your cities. They should not be 'bought' either
* Nationalism should be learned ASAP upon entering Industrial era
* Every city size 7+ at this time, and subsequent cities reaching size 7 for first time,
MUST draft a unit for defense of that city. (So eventually, a conscript in every 'city')

[Note in EDIT -- using foreign workers for labor, and obtaining them by capture, barter, or other non-cash means *is* allowed]

Other comments to set the spirit of the game...

- International reputation is simply not a high priority, although treaties are not
broken for simply monetary gain. Under the rules described though, I can't see
getting in situations where you would have to cancel a treaty early,
since you have no RoP, no alliances, tell troops to leave rather than openly
declare, and have 20 turns to 'prepare' for required action.
- If a city you found is captured, you should not rest until that city is recovered
Peace before that occurs is an option, but do not forsake the city - work to get it back!
- Any govt form is allowed, but if the people start whining about weariness, take no
guff from them either! Strike down the insurrection and change to become an
Emperor (Monarchy) or an Ultranationalist Government (Communism)
- Refusing tribute and having no alliances is going to make for a MAJOR challenge -
expect at least one "dogpile" on us, which won't be pretty
- At the end of a war you will have foreign troops who need time to get out. You
may give them a reasonable but limited time to get out. If they linger, or start
trampling unnecessarily over our nation, then they must get the boot.
- Chiang Kai-Shek is listed in Bartleby's as: "1887–1975, Chinese Nationalist leader"
In 1928 he became head of the Nationalist government at Nanjing and generalissimo of all
Chinese Nationalist forces.

Game details for RBP7 (PtW v1.21):
- Difficulty: Deity
- Civ: China (Mil/Ind), led by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek
- Map: Standard, medium pangaea, random attributes, restless barbarians. No respawn.
- Foes: Mostly random (Japan not one of them, in honor of RBP5), one 'traditional' for sure
- Victory conditions for player: cultural, space, domination, conquest.



First player will take up to 40 turns, second player 20, then 10 after that.

Acknowledgements: Thanks to Iteen and ukrneal for their ideals on a Defiant
game and a nationalism-focused game. These, along with some ideas and playtesting
of my own led to this variant. Thanks also to cpp1 and others who helped shape the
rules for this game, and to players in RBP5 for feeling the true impact of the rules.

Roster - interested parties from RBP6 and/or RBP5:
Cartouche Bee, Reagan, Meldor, ToddMarshall, Ridgelake, Charis
Arathorn, Architect, Jaxom, cpp1 of the Meiji line.

(More than I thought. I haven't heard anything out of RBP5 players other
than Meldor in a while. We'll either see a near repeat-roster of MOW
or we'll see game-A and game-B in a doubly-defiant spectacle? The MOW team
mentioned specific interest, so respond here if NOT interested or if you've
gotten your card filled up with another game, DEFN squad should response
asap if interested)

Be careful
Charis

PS - As with RBP5 I generated the map to be able to check for a 'dud' by playing
through a few turns. The first was a hideous sprawling jungle, but the second seems
fair. So I'll make no dotmap comments and go last in the first round.

Let's go.....I have been waiting for this one. Thought you forgot about it.

Yep, I've been waiting too. Like the 'should' not buy workers part.

Charis,

I'd be interested if there ends up being enough room...

JMB

I am *NOT* signing up - I have plenty to keep myself busy.

However, I am curious if you made any changes to make the rules easier after the loss last game?

I can't quite help pointing out that Chiang Kai-Shek was basically a paranoid anti-communist military loser propped up by the West so they could pretend that China had a government, when in fact it was going through a long period lacking in any effective central government at all (culminating in the rise of the Communist Party.) During WWII, he refused to use weapons and supplies allocated to him by the Allies to fight the Japanese, and instead continued to hoard them while his forces were pushed further and further west -- he kept claiming that he needed to save them for the future war against the Communists, who had by then occupied the entire North third of the country. Basically, he's about the -least- defiant, nationalist Chinese leader you could imagine.

Besides this minor discrepancy, it looks like a great game, if far beyond my ability. ;P I look forward to following along, though, and I promise no more nitpicking remarks.

Wooooo Hoooooo. Ready to Rock and Roll. Slot me last....errrrr..... next to last since you are going last if possible please.

Originally posted by LKendter
I am *NOT* signing up - I have plenty to keep myself busy.

However, I am curious if you made any changes to make the rules easier after the loss last game?

Click to expand...

As fvar as I know, these are identical rules. Why mess with a formula that works...

[EDIT] Charis, I am in a turn of LK39, so if you could put me near the middle that would work better for me. Thanks.

It would be a privilege to support our fine nation to the best of my abilities.......

Bah, Enough for the niceties Lets get it on!

Man, you have no idea how much I'm looking forward to playing with this bunch again Win, lose, or draw, it will be fun. I think we have a sort of group personality forming here.

Looks like I'm going to get slotted towards the front again.

Charis, you are going to have to put someone between us so you don't feel so much pressure to rush build before I change your orders. Or make me sign a pact, oh we don't sign pacts in this game. However, this is more a builder game and I think I can wear that suit too.

Going to a fun and challenging run.

I'm in and very much looking forward to it.

On the subject of foreign workers: is it "buying" them if we acquire them as peace concessions? I would think that permissible, but wanted to check.

Regarding foreign city "tributes:" does it count as a tribute if we receive a city in peace negotiations? IIRC, such cities will have their populations converted to loyal Chinese citizens. That makes me think such city acquisition should be allowed, although we might want to pass on the acquisition of certain such cities for strategic reasons (e.g., creation of odd-shaped borders, remoteness from our core cities, etc.).

Regarding our reputation: I encourage us to treat our reputation as golden, even if we aren't going for a diplo victory and aren't going to engage in all of the available types of deals. It really sucks to be unable to trade for luxuries and/or make gpt payments for tech. The MOW game was great because we were able to keep that option open for the whole game, which (IMHO) greatly assisted our early expansion phase. Forcing a rival trading partner civ who's giving us guff to declare war on us rather than remove troops will not hurt our rep and might prove strategically beneficial by getting us out of some gpt tech payments to boot. So, I think it should take very special circumstances to justify sullying our rep.

Originally posted by Reagan
It really sucks to be unable to trade for luxuries and/or make gpt payments for tech.

Click to expand...

I missed that, not that I would mind the rule, I think cash is a good way to go, but where was that?

Hey Todd you're in yeah.......but only until 1.21f gets released in Europe right ? Then you will have to return a favour !

@CB - that's not a rule, it's a byproduct of the following comment that appears after the rules: "International reputation is simply not a high priority, although treaties are not broken for simply monetary gain."

I just want to make sure we aren't going to trash our ability to use gpt or make lux deals if we want to.

I agree, we should try and stay on the honorable side of things, it works out best in the long run.

I agree, we should try and stay on the honorable side of things, it works out best in the long run

Click to expand...

Check out the "Best dairy farmer ever" talking....... I love it ! I just love it !

@Skyfish - I'm sure Charis would squeeze you back into the roster when it comes out. Surely no one would object to that? You are in France though, so it may be a while. There isnt just one european version if I understand it, but at least 4. German, Italian, Frenck, and English(UK). The German patch is supposed to be released any day now, and the Italian one has begun work, but no word on the other 2 yet.

I hear the French patch is delayed because they're still trying to perfect the Musketeer unit's surrender animations.

"I kid because I love." - Krusty the Klown

Roster - it turns out to be the RB6 MOW crew -
------
Cartouche Bee
Reagan
ToddMarshall (aka Maniac)
Meldor
Ridgelake
Charis

As Todd mentioned, if Firaxis can get our European folks up to 1.21 we'll
squeeze Skyfish in as well

In fact, same order, except Reagan and Meldor swapping spots.
Cartouche, lead us on!!

Starting Game File

I have no doubt this game will not hurt for strategic discussion, but if anyone has *NOT* read RBP5, they should do so. Not being able to give in to tribute, being forced to kick out other civs when they waltz across your land, and no alliances can be brutal, because it brings war to you not at a time of your choosing, and can easily lead to dogpiles. Just because we did well last game, don't make assumptions here, keep your guard up!

Charis

PS Apologies to JMB, this one was highly subscribed before it even got posted.
We'll catch you in another one soon I hope!