Will the Great Merchant see any changes with BNW?

kingchris20

kingchris20

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Since BNW is heavily focused on Trade and Diplomatic relations, I think it would be safe to assume that the existing Great Merchant will see some changes. Although, I dont think there has been any mention of the Great Merchants in any interviews. Right now they are only allowed to trade with CSs and give you gold and influence or make a customs house improvement.

Do you all think they should now be able to go to other Civs? (With BNW's emphasis on Trade) We will be able to send Caravans and Trade Ships to other civs, it only seems fitting that the Great Person involved with trade would see some changes. Maybe in the very least in the form of unit art (Maybe they will ride camels like the Land Caravan? :D).

A new addition could be -

Conduct Trade Mission (Inside other civ borders with which you have an Open Borders agreement) -

1) Happiness from traded luxuries with the target civ are doubled for your civ and theirs (for a specified number of turns)?

or

2) Bonus to trade routes connected with this civ for a specified number of turns (in which you've conducted the trade mission)

What do you guys think?
 
I don't think the Great Merchant's sacrificing ability will be with another civ. Part of what makes the Great Merchant weaker than the other GPs currently is that is takes 5 or more turns usually before you can actually use the sacrificing ability, because you have to move him to the city state first. Scientist and Artist you can sac anywhere, and the Engineer you can and will often use in the city where he pops.

I'd say sacrifice the Great Merchant to get an extra trade route. There's diminishing returns to extra trade routes because you run out of good cities to trade with.
 
Calouste said:
I'd say sacrifice the Great Merchant to get an extra trade route. There's diminishing returns to extra trade routes because you run out of good cities to trade with.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of the GM being able to creat an additional Trade Route.
 
Calouste said:
I'd say sacrifice the Great Merchant to get an extra trade route. There's diminishing returns to extra trade routes because you run out of good cities to trade with.
Click to expand...
Yep, that's what I'm thinking they'll do as well. Nice, clean, simple, effective.

It would really make a great merchant something akin to Marco Polo, because while trade routes are primarily about trade, they also bring other effects with them.
 
Create Trade Route with the option of Land or Sea
 
Actually I think they're restricted. In the Pax demo it was stated they had one land and one sea trade route available. That could have just been to show the mechanics of each and the counter had 4 available routes. Still since land and sea routes are unlocked by different technologies it would not be unusual for them to be separate. Anyone have actual confirmation.
 
Gali said:
Actually I think they're restricted. In the Pax demo it was stated they had one land and one sea trade route available. That could have just been to show the mechanics of each and the counter had 4 available routes. Still since land and sea routes are unlocked by different technologies it would not be unusual for them to be separate. Anyone have actual confirmation.
Click to expand...
I watched the relevant section of both the Saturday and Sunday PAX demos, and I didn't hear anyone say that, specifically. In the Saturday demo they mouse over the Trade Route menu on the top of the screen (the icon which which says 2 / 4), and the mouseover menu says:

You have 1 unassigned Caravan.
You have 1 unassigned Cargo Ship.

You have 2 trade units.
You have 4 international trade routes available.

In the Sunday demo, Ed says, "we actually have two different sets of trade routes," but he's talking about internal and foreign routes.

One of the early previews claimed that you start with one land and one sea route available, but what we've learned since then seems to contradict that. [edit] It's from the RPS preview. Here's the quote from Ed Beach: "Yes, what happens is that both land and sea trade routes open up right in the ancient era, you get one of each type typically, and as the game progresses you can get more and more of those, and those represent the way your civilisation generates additional wealth." (Notice the "typically.")

It seems to me that the number of available Caravans or Cargo Ships will determine how many of your routes can be land or sea, but that they are drawn from a pool which could be either land or sea.
 
Hopefully, they can lose the cumbersome "international trade route" monicker, which would lead to players having internal international trade routes. That's an oxymoronic mouthful.

Differentiating land and sea routes would provide certain gameplay benefits, rewarding a focus on certain branches of the tech trees.
 
Maybe they can revise the tile improvement. Like if you build a Customs House on a luxury resource, gold and happiness from that resource are doubled in the city that works the tile.




Edited to add: or instead of extra happiness, extra tourism.
 
AriochIV said:
I watched the relevant section of both the Saturday and Sunday PAX demos, and I didn't hear anyone say that, specifically. In the Saturday demo they mouse over the Trade Route menu on the top of the screen (the icon which which says 2 / 4), and the mouseover menu says:

You have 1 unassigned Caravan.
You have 1 unassigned Cargo Ship.

You have 2 trade units.
You have 4 international trade routes available.

In the Sunday demo, Ed says, "we actually have two different sets of trade routes," but he's talking about internal and foreign routes.

One of the early previews claimed that you start with one land and one sea route available, but what we've learned since then seems to contradict that. [edit] It's from the RPS preview. Here's the quote from Ed Beach: "Yes, what happens is that both land and sea trade routes open up right in the ancient era, you get one of each type typically, and as the game progresses you can get more and more of those, and those represent the way your civilisation generates additional wealth." (Notice the "typically.")

It seems to me that the number of available Caravans or Cargo Ships will determine how many of your routes can be land or sea, but that they are drawn from a pool which could be either land or sea.
Click to expand...

Hypothesis:
You get one trade route when you discover Animal Husbandry (this is I think confirmed). At that point you also get a free Caravan. You get another trade route when you discover Sailing, at which point you get a free Cargo Ship except when you don't have a coastal city, then you get a free Caravan instead. Any further trade units for extra trade routes or when you lose a trade unit, you have to build or buy.
 
I don't see why you would get free trade units. You should have to invest in the system to use it. This is one of the problems inherent in the Espionage system... you just get spies for free.

On the contrary, I recall one of the Firaxis guys saying that trade units are fairly expensive.
 
Calouste said:
I'd say sacrifice the Great Merchant to get an extra trade route. There's diminishing returns to extra trade routes because you run out of good cities to trade with.
Click to expand...

That would actually make them worthwhile and one might even want to get a Great Merchant instead of a Great Scientist or Engineer.


kingchris20 said:
Create Trade Route with the option of Land or Sea
Click to expand...

Or bonus land routes from Great Merchants and sea routes from Admirals.
 
Because historically navies were rarely purely military. In times of peace they would still fulfill police functions and secure trade routes against pirates. Actually, they're still doing that today.
In gameplay terms Admirals aren't really that useful. You rarely need more than one, and the instant ship repair is too weak and situational. Generals have a quasi-peaceful ability now that Citadels expand your territory and I think admirals should have one too.
 
GoodSarmatian said:
Because historically navies were rarely purely military. In times of peace they would still fulfill police functions and secure trade routes against pirates. Actually, they're still doing that today.
In gameplay terms Admirals aren't really that useful. You rarely need more than one, and the instant ship repair is too weak and situational. Generals have a quasi-peaceful ability now that Citadels expand your territory and I think admirals should have one too.
Click to expand...

Yep. Great Admirals are weak and with the new trade routes mechanics it's highly possible what GA will have some new function.

It's also possible what GG citadel will be slightly changed with the ew city flip mechanic. But it could also be left as is.
 
Great Admirals are in need of a change, but I'm not sure if trade bonuses are the answer......maybe some sort of offshore citadel rig?

But, with Great Merchants....how many do you all normally get throughout the game? I know I've gotten 6 before, and I can't seem to think that they would allow 6 extra trade routes (if you chose to use that ability each time) when they seem to be limited by design......I like the idea, but I also like the idea of conducting a trade mission with another civ that gives maybe a 25% bonus to trade for both theirs and your civ
 
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