[Speculation] Reformation Beliefs

GenjiKhan · Apr 21, 2013

So there will be a new belief branch,called Reformation Belief . This thread is created to speculate what will be the new Reformation beliefs . My guesses are:

- Jesuits : Probably,that will be the name of the new belief that allows missionaries to convert adjacent barbarians;
- Illuminationism: Probably,that will be the name of the new belief that allows using :c5faith:

to purchase scientific buildings;
- Prosperity Theology: Increases Great Merchant generation by +30%;
- Charismatic Renewal: Increases Great Artists generation by +30%;
- Ahimsa : Cattles provides -1 :c5food:

,+2

and +2

.
- Wahhabism: Can use :c5production:

to build Inquisitors . Increased cultural resistance against tourism of civilizations who doesn't share the same religion of yours;
- Cargo Cult: Receive a large ammount of :c5faith:

,

and

,when you first meet another civilization;

Beliefs that can be moved to the Reformation Belief branch and maybe get buffed up a bit:

- Holy Warriors: Use :c5faith:

to purchase pre-Industrial land units;
- Divine Inspiration: Each World Wonder provides +2 :c5faith:

in city;

By the way,avoid bringing your personal views about religion here to maintain the order on this thread .

God of Kings · Apr 21, 2013

I have removed those that exist when the religion was founded.

Creationism: :c5science:

halved from science buildings and specialists and :c5greatperson:

points for GS halved, but +0.5 :c5faith:

per

lost, cannot use :c5faith:

to buy GS.

What would be good for Cargo Cult?

TheMarshmallowBear · Apr 21, 2013

Wahhabism, Ahimasa, and Halal will never happen.

With the exception of India, there is not a single elemtn in the game that gives you an disadvantage via a "bonus". Reformation Beliefs will provide a bonus that you can usee.

With the two that wek now of including

1. Buying Science buildigns with Faith
2. Missionaries convert adjacent Barbarians (do you guys think that a unit stacked with a Missionary actually gets that ability?)

GenjiKhan · Apr 21, 2013

TheKingOfBigOz said:
Wahhabism, Ahimasa, and Halal will never happen.

Why not? Just because they are from the many branches of Islam,that doesn't mean they aren't worth including .

God of Kings said:
What would be good for Cargo Cult?

What do you mean?

God of Kings · Apr 21, 2013

GenjiKhan said:
What do you mean?

What bonuses would be good for choosing Cargo Cult for the Reformation belief?

See here for cargo cult: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult

Beefie · Apr 21, 2013

GenjiKhan said:
Why not? Just because they are from the many branches of Islam,that doesn't mean they aren't worth including .

BigOz was not disregarding these beliefs due what religion they stem from, but rather the fact that the beliefs as stated in the OP have negative effects (such as negative food, negative health etc) which has no precedence in Civ 5 save for India's UA. I would tend to agree, nobody likes negatives!

As for the Cargo Cult, how about faith boosts on completion of a trade route?

MacAurther · Apr 21, 2013

In addition to the said beliefs having inherent negative bonuses, they are hardly reformation-oriented. What I would expect the Reformation beliefs to be is more along the lines of Protestant, Neo-Confucianism, Catholic Revival, et cetera ideals.

For example, The Ninety-Five Theses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses) would provide a good background to model Reformation beliefs off of, in my opinion, as it is practically the definition or Theological Reformation.

Things like 'Halal' would not be good Reformation beliefs, in my opinion, because they are not associated with any sort of revival. Halal is a term to describe things that are not allowed in Sharia Law, which was founded with the Qur'an, so it represents nothing more than a base ideology; something more of a pantheon or follower belief.

Heinage · Apr 21, 2013

TheKingOfBigOz said:
With the exception of India, there is not a single elemtn in the game that gives you an disadvantage via a "bonus"

I'd like to see the return of inherent disadvantages to certain decisions you make rather than just a pure bonus system.
It's something I miss from civ iv. Like choosing mercantilism and knowing that, in doing so, you'd get less gold through trade routes but would get extra specialists instead.
It provided both a real world scenario as well as a conscious tactical decision.

At the moment all we have is this "opportunity cost" system which I find a bit too shallow sometimes.

Sorry for going off topic a bit but someone else brought it up so just wanted to add my opinion

GenjiKhan · Apr 21, 2013

MacAurther said:
Things like 'Halal' would not be good Reformation beliefs, in my opinion, because they are not associated with any sort of revival. Halal is a term to describe things that are not allowed in Sharia Law, which was founded with the Qur'an, so it represents nothing more than a base ideology; something more of a pantheon or follower belief.

In this case,I'll remove the beliefs that sorta existed when the religions related to them were founded .

God of Kings · Apr 21, 2013

GenjiKhan said:
In this case,I'll remove the beliefs that sorta existed when the religions related to them were founded .

I have done the same with my post.

Scaramanga · Apr 21, 2013

Yoga: unemployed citizens produce half unhappiness.

Or even produce no unhappiness at all.

GenjiKhan · Apr 21, 2013

MacAurther said:
In addition to the said beliefs having inherent negative bonuses, they are hardly reformation-oriented. What I would expect the Reformation beliefs to be is more along the lines of Protestant, Neo-Confucianism, Catholic Revival, et cetera ideals.

For example, The Ninety-Five Theses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninety-Five_Theses) would provide a good background to model Reformation beliefs off of, in my opinion, as it is practically the definition or Theological Reformation.

Another example that can provide plenty of beliefs as well is the wiki page about the Islamic Philosophy

Beefie said:
As for the Cargo Cult, how about faith boosts on completion of a trade route?

From what I've read about that,a bonus of this belief would fit quite well for isolated civilizations,rather than civilizations which have constant contact with others through trade routes . A possible bonus for it can be: "Receive a large ammount of :c5faith:

,

and

when you first meet another civilization ."

God of Kings · Apr 21, 2013

GenjiKhan said:
From what I've read about that,a bonus of this belief would fit quite well for isolated civilizations,rather than civilizations which have constant contact with others through trade routes . A possible bonus for it can be: "Receive a large ammount of , and when you first meet another civilization."

Seems reasonable (especially given how late reformations can come; yes, cargo cults are a rather recent phenomenon).

les berceaux · Apr 21, 2013

GenjiKhan said:
So there will be a new belief branch,called Reformation Belief . This thread is created to speculate what will be the new Reformation beliefs . My guesses are:

- Wahhabism: Can use to build Mutaween(which are like Inquisitors,but can only work in your own cities) . Cities that only have your religion have +50% more resistance against cultural pressure of civilizations who doesn't follow both your religion and your ideology;

Um, Inquisitors already only work in your own cities. Lol

Menzies · Apr 22, 2013

God of Kings said:
I have removed those that exist when the religion was founded.

Creationism: halved from science buildings and specialists and points for GS halved, but +0.5 per lost, cannot use to buy GS.

What would be good for Cargo Cult?

Halves science?! More like you get a negative multiplier on science and you have to hope that you get enough science through your trade routes to not go backwards at a rate of knots.

Negative culture per turn proportional to your faith per turn would also seem appropriate.

Additional unhappiness for all specialists.

God of Kings · Apr 22, 2013

Menzies said:
Halves science?! More like you get a negative multiplier on science and you have to hope that you get enough science through your trade routes to not go backwards at a rate of knots.

Negative culture per turn proportional to your faith per turn would also seem appropriate.

Additional unhappiness for all specialists.

That sounds better than my proposal. I will adopt your version, Menzies.

Gucumatz · Apr 22, 2013

Either way I doubt we get something called "Creationism" :lol:

Anyways, oddly enough when a couple of forum posters were posting suggestions for pantheons and improving Piety [An additional belief on completing Piety was often suggested] I remember reading a suggestion on converting barbarians. (Of course there were some interesting suggestions too, like God of Winter where tiles razed by your units turned to snow and Astral Gods where tiles adjacent to mountains gave +2 science per turn and other ideas, I doubt we will see things like that - I am curious to see what beliefs will be put in the new pool)]

VermelhoRed · Apr 22, 2013

I think the reformation beliefs will be named just like the normal beliefs, in a descriptive way, instead of being named after existing reformations.

WChrisMullen · Apr 22, 2013

Televangelism: Religious pressure doubles with a broadcast tower
Congregationalism: Allows additional Holy Cities
Syncretism: Religion spreads faster in cities with diverse religions

blackcatatonic · Apr 22, 2013

Iconoclasm: Religious buildings produce +1 gold. Great Works can be sold for gold.

Hey, we could even have Henry VIII as a Great Prophet :lol:

[Speculation] Reformation Beliefs

Emperor

Ruler of all heads of state

Benelovent Chieftain of the Ursu Kingdom

Emperor

Ruler of all heads of state

Warlord

Chieftain

Khan

Emperor

Ruler of all heads of state

Brickhead

Emperor

Ruler of all heads of state

Chieftain

Menzies

Ruler of all heads of state

JS, secretly Rod Serling

Prince

Warlord

Queen of Meme

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