Reinventing the wheel

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wigwam

Prince
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This thread speculating about upcoming changes to UAs got me thinking: what if you had to overhaul everything? Not just the civs that you expect to see changed, or the ones you'd like to have changed, but every single civ in the game? Change them all so that they have different strengths, favor different playstyles, and are still relatively balanced with one another and diverse. A few militaristic, a few scientific, a few religious, etc.

Having way too much time on my hands (don't tell my boss), I got as far as redesigning all of the vanilla civs using G&K and BNW mechanics, trying to avoid, as much as possible, reusing any ideas from the vanilla game. Credit to ferretbacon, one of whose ideas I tweaked for Japan and another of whose ideas I borrowed wholesale for India.

I've got too many smilies in here (and maybe too much text anyway), so I've got to split it up into four posts.

America
Mother of Exiles: Population :c5food: growth and :c5greatperson: Great Person generation increased by 30% during a :c5goldenage: Golden Age.

Monitor (replaces Ironclad): +5 :c5strength: Strength. Does not require Coal.
Land-Grant College (replaces University): +3 :c5happy: Happiness

Spoiler :
The idea here is an immigration theme ("mother of exiles" is from the Emma Lazarus poem "The New Colossus," the one about the Statue of Liberty). Pretty simple, but hopefully pretty engaging—you'd not only want to push for Golden Ages, you'd really want to have all your ducks in a row when they came around. The Monitor is sort of boring, but it was the first great American innovation in military science, and I didn't want to have any post-Industrial Era UUs.


Arabia
Houses of Wisdom: During a :c5goldenage: Golden Age, all sources of :c5faith: Faith also produce an equal amount of :c5science: Science. Start a :c5goldenage: Golden Age upon founding a religion.

Madrasa (replaces Library): +2 :c5faith: faith
Mubarizun (replaces Swordsman): +1 :c5strength: Strength. Enemy units have -10% :c5strength: Combat Strength when adjacent to this unit.

Spoiler :
I think this one is really clever (if I do say so myself). The theme is the Islamic Golden Age; the House of Wisdom was a center of scholarship in Baghdad. Writing comes late enough that Arabia wouldn't be guaranteed an early pantheon, but they should be able to score a religion eventually, especially if they go wide. Techs to boost religion (e.g. Theology), Golden Ages (Civil Service), and the UU all pull the player in different directions, so there's a little tension and it's not all too OP. The Mubarizun were elite soldiers of the first Islamic Caliphate who sought out and killed enemy champions to demoralize and frighten their armies. The promotion would carry over, as with the Maori warrior.


Aztecs
Triple Alliance: :c5citystate: City-States are more easily threatened, yield greater tribute, and reward quests to demand tribute with greater :c5influence: influence.

Ball Court (replaces Colosseum): +1 :c5culture: Culture, +1 :c5faith: Faith.
Eagle Warrior (replaces Archer): +3 :c5strength: Strength, +1 :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength. Earns 50% of opponents' strength as :c5faith: Faith for kills.

Spoiler :
All the members of the real Triple Alliance are just Aztec cities in the game, I think, but I liked the idea of a UA that would encourage the player to befriend some city-states and bully others (I know in my games I rarely, if ever, carry out quests to demand tribute). Subject to tweaks for balance, I was thinking that tribute would be twice as large (maybe two workers is OP, though) and successful quests to demand tribute would yield 50-100% more influence. Eagle Warriors fought with atlatls, bows, javelins, etc. so I figured they could be a ranged unit; they take captives and sacrifice them to the gods. Between the UA and the UB, these Aztecs have a minor religious flavor—not necessarily going to found an early pantheon or establish a dominant religion, but they have a little edge if they work at it.


China
Mandate of Heaven: +1 :c5culture: Culture and +1 :c5science: Science in each City for every 1000 years that :c5happy: Happiness remains above 0.

Han Cavalry (replaces Horseman): +2 :c5strength: Strength. Starts with Formation I promotion.
Walled Village (improvement): +10% defense for any Unit stationed in this tile. +1 :c5gold: Gold, +1 :c5production: Production. Cannot be pillaged. Available with Machinery.

Spoiler :
This UA would probably be really hard to balance, but I like the concept: so long as the empire remains stable and the people are happy, China gets more and more glorious. Because the bonus is year-based, not turn-based, there's an incentive for a Chinese player to expand as much as possible as quickly as possible and then go tall; it would also discourage China from embarking on major wars of conquest (all of which seems historically sound to me). The UU lets China chase Huns and Mongols from the borders of their early empire, as in history (well, maybe not Huns); the UI is just a little flavor and a slight perk, since it comes before Chemistry and Economics. I think these structures would look super cool all over Chinese territory (although maybe a terrain limitation is in order—just hills and coasts? just grasslands?).
 
Egypt
Gift of the Nile: During a :c5goldenage: Golden Age, all Tiles adjacent to a river gain an additional +1 :c5gold: Gold and +1 :c5production: Production.

Kebentiu (replaces Trireme): -3 :c5strength: Strength, +8 :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength. May not melee attack. Starts with Bombardment I promotion.
House of Life (replaces Library): +2 :c5science: Science for every 3 :c5citizen: Citizens in this City. +10% :c5food: Growth.

Spoiler :
None of the vanilla (or DLC, or expansion) UAs interact with tile production in this way, but it seems pretty fitting for Egypt. I had a hard time thinking of what to emphasize with Egypt if not culture and wonders, so I came up with a mish-mash of historically plausible things: the river, Golden Ages, science, and medicine.
Giving the House of Life a growth bonus is maybe a bit of a stretch, but they were supposedly centers of medical knowledge, and ancient Egypt certainly had very advanced medicine for its time. The science buff might also be OP. As for the boat, I don't even know if "Kebentiu" is a real word (it shows up in like one source), but the Egyptians were the world's first shipbuilders and they used shipboard archers to attack land-bound enemies. It's sort of the reverse of the Dromon, easily dispatched by enemy ships.


England
New Model Army: Receive +1 :c5faith: Faith each time a Unit gains experience in combat. +15 XP for all units after the discovery of Printing Press.

Harquebusier (replaces Lancer): +5 :c5strength: Strength. Starts with Blitz promotion.
Redcoat (replaces Musketman): +50% vs. mounted Units. :c5gold: Gold cost of upgrading this unit reduced by 50%.

Spoiler :
I'm not a big fan of all-military civs, but I figured I ought to try a couple and I've always been fascinated by the English Civil War. I basically reversed the Ottoman UUs: the lancer is a mighty hammer; the musketman is a multi-purpose anvil. Republican musketeers were mixed with pike, so I gave them a Tercio-style bonus vs. mounted, and because the UK has some of the oldest, most storied military units in the world, some going back to the Civil War or even earlier, I gave them a promotion that makes upgrades cheaper (and carries over). The Redcoats you built after researching Printing Press would become the core of your army for the rest of the game. The Printing Press thing is a reference to the Soldier's Catechism, basically. The New Model Army was mostly religious zealots, so here's another lightly faith-flavored civ (it also gives them something special to do other than wait for Printing Press).


France
Sister Republics: Mercantile :c5citystate: City-States grant bonus :c5happy: Happiness, Militaristic :c5citystate: City-States grant experienced Units, and Maritime :c5citystate: City-States grant experienced naval Units.

Grenadier (replaces Rifleman): +6 :c5strength: Strength.
Dragoon (replaces Cavalry): +1 sight range. Receives defensive bonuses from terrain.

Spoiler :
Another warmonger, even more straightforward than England. The UUs are Napoleonic; the UA is too, in theme, but it works throughout the game, as sort of a counterpart to Siam's vanilla UA. The units would get either +15XP or +30XP (not sure how it'd balance out); you'd get ships half as often as you got land units. Mercantile city-states would give maybe an extra +3 happiness, again subject to balance.


Germany
Poets and Thinkers: Receive a free :c5greatperson: Great Musician when you discover Acoustics. :c5greatperson: Great Artists, Musicians, and Writers are stronger.

Horse Artillery (replaces Cannon): +1 :c5moves: Movement, -2 :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength.
Sternwarte (replaces Observatory): +25% :c5science: Science. +1 Scientist slot. No terrain requirement.

Spoiler :
Germany is "Das Land der Dichter und Denker," so the specials are all about Humboldt, Goethe, Bach, et al (plus a nod to Friedrich der Große with the speedy cannons). Might be a little OP—I don't think any vanilla civ gets bonus specialist slots, and certainly not in every city. But that might be balanced out by how expensive observatories are and how late they come along, I don't know (why terrain-free observatories, you ask—the Germans built some of the first modern observatories in cities nowhere near the mountains, like Berlin and Hamburg). For the UA, I'm thinking that if you create a great work, you get a half-strength version of the artist's special ability (a brief Golden Age, a little culture bomb, a little tourism boost). If you use those abilities, they're 50% stronger. Needs tweaking, I'm sure. I do like it conceptually: the UA functions throughout the game, but it gets a little extra boost around the Enlightenment, which is also when the UB kicks in and leads Germany to late-game tech dominance.


Greece
Odyssey: Each turn, each of your Naval :c5trade: Trade Routes generates extra :c5culture: Culture equal to 20% of the destination City's :c5culture: Culture.

Studio (replaces Stone Works): +2 :c5culture: Culture on Marble and Copper. +25% :c5greatperson: Great Artist generation. Does not provide happiness or production bonuses. No resource requirement.
Macedonian Phalanx (replaces Pikeman): -1 :c5strength: Strength. +20% :c5strength: Strength when defending. Costs 60 :c5production:. Available with Drama and Poetry.

Spoiler :
Definitely the unique abilities that would be most egregiously wasted by the civ's leader. Alexander cares not for maritime trade or bronze and marble sculpture! Like my Germany, my Greece gets a major boost to Great Artists, but this time it's to generating them, not to the strength of their abilities. The UA might need tweaking depending on how many trade routes it's possible to get; it could make Greece impossible to beat out for a culture win. The UU is maybe a little goofy (I was kind of reaching for something that's not a hoplite), but Philip of Macedon was supposedly inspired to develop his new phalanx by Homer's poetry. It'd allow Greece to defend herself well while otherwise pursuing a purely cultural/religious path.
 
India
Holy Rivers: +1 :c5faith: Faith and +10% :c5food: growth in Cities on rivers.

Stepwell (replaces Aqueduct): +1 :c5faith: Faith, +2 :c5food: Food.
Gupta Longbowman (replaces composite bowman): +1 :c5strength: Strength, +2 :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength. Starts with Volley promotion.

Spoiler :
India's my religious powerhouse—fitting for the birthplace of Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism. The UA is from ferretbacon; I just renamed it to avoid overlap with the "Sacred Waters" belief. I threw in a stepwell UB because they're beautiful and make a nice complement to a faith/growth theme. India had very sophisticated bamboo and steel longbows all the way back in the classical-era Gupta Empire—the Volley promotion represents their extreme armor-piercing power.


Iroquois
La Petite Guerre: All Melee and Gunpowder Units receive the Woodsman promotion. All units pay just 1 :c5moves: movement point to enter any tile adjacent to a river.

Raider (replaces Longswordsman): +1 :c5strength: Strength. No movement cost to pillage. Does not require Iron. Upgrades to Rifleman.
Sharpshooter (replaces Musketman): -4 :c5strength: Strength, +50% :c5strength: Strength when attacking. Ignores Zones of Control. Can move after attacking.

Spoiler :
This was probably the hardest to puzzle out. An Iroquois civ without a Longhouse is a little silly, but I was determined not to reuse old stuff, and reading about Iroquois history I was struck by just how violent it was, so I went with a couple of complementary UUs (as I did with England and France). I think the Longswordsman is a bit crap in G&K, being replaced by muskets as quickly as it is, so I thought I'd make the Longswordsman and Musketman partners, rather than putting them in line. The earlier unit is stronger and perfect for pillaging lumber mills and trading posts; the gunpowder unit is slippery and deadly when attacking, but weaker on defense. The Iroquois used to sink canoes with heavy stones before a raid, then return, raise them, and escape by river afterwards—hence the UA (partially borrowed from the Sumerians, it's true).


Japan
Enlightened Rule: Gain :c5science: Science for the empire from each enemy unit killed when fighting a more advanced Civilization.

Samurai (replaces Knight): +2 :c5strength: Strength. Gain :c5culture: Culture when this Unit destroyed in combat.
Shiro (improvement): +25% defense for any Unit stationed in this tile. +1 :c5culture: Culture. +2 additional :c5culture: Culture, +1 :c5gold: Gold after Steam Power has been discovered. Available with Gunpowder; may no longer be built after Steam Power has been discovered. May only be built on hills. May not be built adjacent to another Shiro.

Spoiler :
Here, my resolve to avoid reusing vanilla stuff broke down. What's Japan in Civ without samurai? I did tweak them, though, by making them Knights (giving them much more longevity than those poor useless Longswordsman) and borrowing ferretbacon's idea for Bushido. +1 culture per unit XP seems like it'd be a nice, worthwhile-but-not-OP value. Shiro might not be exactly the right word for a Japanese castle (maybe somebody can correct me?) but I like the idea—as with the Samurai, it's a military-flavored cultural bonus, and one that requires some thought and activity. I don't think any vanilla improvements become obsolete, but I don't think this UI would work otherwise. As for the UA, it might not suit Japan precisely, but I think it's a good approximation of the country's huge progress during the Meiji ("enlightened rule") era. Japan had been a stagnant feudal backwater; they defeated China and Russia in successive wars and were suddenly a superpower. Science from combat (based on the defeated unit's strength, maybe with an era multiplier, or a multiplier based on how far behind the enemy Japan's technology is) would allow Japan to stay competitive while pursuing a cultural or military path, but it'd also make the player work for it.


Ottomans
Palace Schools: +1 :c5science: Science, +1 :c5culture: Culture, and +1 :c5gold: Gold in the :c5capital: Capital for each other City you control.

Sebil (replaces Shrine): +1 :c5happy: Happiness.
Galiot (replaces Galleass): +1 :c5moves: Movement. Starts with Prize Ships promotion.

Spoiler :
Simple, kind of a boring name, but I like it. The Palace Schools brought the best and brightest boys from all over the Ottoman Empire to Istanbul and trained them as soldiers, teachers, scholars, administrators, bureaucrats, etc. One of its big successes was preparing relatively incorruptible, loyal governors to manage occupied territories, but I didn't want to make the Ottomans warmongers. I went for peaceful expansion instead, where the growth of the empire always magnifies the glory of the capital (and compensates for the rising cost of social policies). The sebil is ubiquitous in former Ottoman lands; as a UB, it helps cushion the happiness cost of massive expansion and gives the Ottomans a very slight push towards religion, without actually giving them an advantage over other civs in that department. Ottomans without Janissaries might be a little silly, but the Galiot keeps some of that Barbary Corsairs flavor and finally gives us a Galleass UU.


Persia
Royal Road: +10% :c5culture: Culture in the :c5capital: Capital for each :c5trade: City Connection.

Paradise Garden (replaces Garden): +2 :c5culture: Culture. Does not require fresh water.
Sparabara (replaces Spearman): Adjacent friendly Units gain +20% :c5strength: Strength against ranged attacks.

Spoiler :
I'm not much of a numbers guy so I haven't actually worked this out; the UA might be totally OP, but it'd be easy to tweak. As with China and the Ottoman Empire, I wanted to give Persia the ability to go wide and still rack up social policies, and the Royal Road (which rather indirectly inspired the motto of the US Postal Service—who knew!) seemed like a clever way to do it. Persian gardens are a fairly easy choice for a UB and work well with the UA; since they aren't water-dependent, they also give an the whole empire a nudge towards emphasizing specialists. There are about a million good choices for Persian UUs; I picked these guys because I didn't have a spearman.
 
Rome
Mediterranean Mercenaries: Purchasing Mounted and Archery Units in cities requires 50% less :c5gold: Gold until the Industrial Era.

Legion (replaces Swordsman): +3 :c5strength: Strength. Does not require Iron.
Forum (replaces Market): +1 :c5happy: Happiness. +2 additional :c5happy: Happiness in :c5occupied: occupied Cities.

Spoiler :
My last warmongers. Like with the Samurai, I couldn't really justify anything other than the Legion, but I tweaked the vanilla unit—my guys wouldn't require iron. The Romans, for much of their history, hired Cretan archers, Balearic slingers, and North African light cavalry as auxiliaries, so the Roman game plan is pretty simple (maybe too simple?): beeline to Iron Working, start cranking out Legions, tech up to Construction and Horseback Riding, buy auxilia, conquer everybody you can get your hands on, build fora to Romanize your new subjects, rinse, repeat. Cutting off the UA at the Industrial Era prevents players from buying cheap gatling guns or stacking up autocracy and Big Ben to get machine guns for free (or are those bonuses multiplicative?).


Russia
Cloak and Dagger (Russia): :c5citystate: City-States offer more :c5gold: Gold and :c5faith: Faith when first encountered. Spies are more effective.

Ostrog (improvement): +25% defense for any Unit stationed in this tile. -50% to :c5culture: Culture and :c5gold: Gold costs of acquiring this tile and adjacent tiles. If built adjacent to a :c5citystate: City-State's territory, extracts 4 :c5gold: Gold at a cost of 5 :c5influence: Influence each turn. Available with Compass.
Strelets (replaces Musketman): +1 :c5moves: Movement. Starts with Shock I promotion.

Spoiler :
I think this might be favorite, apart from Arabia. The UA is a bit of a mish-mash, but the first bit encourages exploration (and gives Russia a good chance of stumbling into an early pantheon—faith and gold gifts would be doubled) and the second bit, apart from imparting a little KGB flavor, allows Russia (like Japan above and Siam below) to play catch-up with technologies very effectively. The numbers, subject to balance: spies steal techs 25% faster, are 5% more likely to succeed in a coup (which raises the maximum success chance 5% as well), and slow enemy espionage by an additional 10% (on top of buildings, policies, etc.). The UU, again, should probably just be a Cossack, but I think the Strelets [thanks Godswood for the Russian lesson] is kind of cool (although it does mean I've used the Musketman three times now). Streltsy sometimes traveled by horse, so they get a little speed, and they wheeled around these crazy things as mobile cover on the otherwise cover-barren steppes. The UI is my favorite bit, though. The ostrog was crucial to the conquest of Siberia in real life; in game terms, it allows to you expand your borders, get new frontier cities up and running (while protecting them), and bully city-states, all in a dynamic, novel way that keeps your workers busy. I thought about throwing other abilities in there (imposes ZOC, allows you to gain +2 happiness from an unclaimed luxury to which you have no access), but it's probably complicated enough already.


Siam
Amity and Commerce: When declaring friendship, Siam gets a combat bonus (+10%) within friendly territory. Gain 50% more :c5science: science from :c5trade: Trade Routes.

Sala (replaces Circus): Available with Philosophy. No resource requirement.
Jingal Elephant (replaces Gatling Gun): -6 :c5strength: Strength, +1 :c5moves: Movement. Can move after attacking.

Spoiler :
Thailand managed to avoid being colonized, unlike practically every other country in South and Southeast Asia, largely by skillful diplomacy. They cozied up to the UK and the US while making concessions to France when they had to and fighting or appealing to the British when they could. This UA encourages Siam to play peacefully and diplomatically; like Sweden's, this friendship bonus would stack, so getting into a solid alliance would make Siam very, very difficult to invade (especially on a big map—might need to scale the numbers by map size). Trading with more advanced partners would keep Siam up-to-date, allowing them (like Japan or Russia) to focus on other endeavors. The Sala is a sort of Thai pavilion that you see all over the country, especially around temples, so I moved it to Philosophy—I doubt there were many circuses in Thailand before Western contact, and being able to build a happiness booster in every city suits the "land of smiles." As for the UU, we don't have a unique gatling gun and (per Wikipedia, as ever) the Siamese used elephant-mounted light artillery against the French, right up to the end of the 19th century. The jingal-mounted elephant is weaker in direct combat than a gatling gun, but it can make hit-and-run attacks that normal ranged units can't.


Songhai
Crossroads: Your Land :c5trade: Trade Routes generate 20% more :c5gold: Gold and spread Religion at twice the normal rate.

Treasury (replaces Mint): +2 :c5gold: Gold for each source of Gold, Silver, or Salt. Requires one of these resources mined nearby. +1 Land :c5trade: Trade Route.
Mandekalu Bowman (replaces Crossbowman): +2 :c5strength: Strength, -2 :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength. +25% :c5rangedstrength: vs. wounded Units.

Spoiler :
Last but not least, I tried to emphasize Songhai's role as a center of trade, linking West Africa with North Africa and the Arab world. There's a strong incentive here to found a religion, but no particular tools to help you do it. If you don't, you can console yourself with piles and piles of trade route money (might need balancing). Gold and salt were Songhai's most valuable resources, so the UB emphasizes that; depending on how many trade routes a civ can normally get, the extra route might be a little OP. Mandekalu bowmen are kind of a stretch—I couldn't really find out much about the Songhai military except that there were Mandekalu cavalry and infantry, and the most numerous infantrymen were archers who carried swords and shield and used poison-tipped arrows. Hence more melee strength, less ranged strength, and a poisonous bonus against wounded targets.


So that's that. Thoughts? Variations? Anybody else want to try reinventing the wheel, or maybe go after the DLC and G&K civs? I'd love to see someone redesign the Huns, for one, without reusing any of their current content and in a multiplayer-balanced way (I think I have a good idea, but it'd never work in MP).
 
Love your ideas. I don't know how i feel about an English civilization with no naval focus but if you're going to reinvent the wheel you certainly did there.

The horse artillery for the Germans could have regular movement but cost no :c5moves: to set-up. and that may be OP so maybe attach a horse requirement too.

I was also thinking that instead of Gupta longbowmen for the Indians you kept the elephant theme up but instead moved an elephant unit to the cannon and did something similar to what you did for Siam. Mughal Elephant Cannon ( i have no idea if the mughals used these, but i know Indians did at some point) Less :c5strength: , cost more :c5production: , can move after attacking, maybe even some random promotion for flavor like woodsmen for elephants moving through jungles.
 
Many of them are not trivial, hence beautiful!

Edit: Re-read the whole posts more carefully, and I think some of them are bad balanced. Anyway, a good ground to think on!
 
wigwam said:
Credit to ferretbacon, one of whose ideas I tweaked for Japan and another of whose ideas I borrowed wholesale for India.
Click to expand...

:goodjob:

I'm just full of 'em. Nice post, I was thinking about doing something similar to this, presenting each civilization reinvented to my liking with all the new systems from both expansions in mind. Think I might waste some time doing that later today.

Edit: I like the name of America's UA; good poem.
 
Cool! Rename the new America Ability to "e pluribus enum" though IMO.
Kinda the same concept, is on all our money and all Americans identify with it :)
 
Byzantines

Theodosian Legacy: Each city defensive upgrade provides an additional +25 HP and +15% HP regeneration (stacks additively).

Hippodrome (replaces Coliseum): +1 additional :c5happy: Happiness; the total happiness provided by this building counts twice for determining the points needed to start a :c5goldenage: Golden Age.

Varangian Guard (replaces Swordsman): -33% :c5gold: Gold cost to purchase; +20% :c5strength: Strength when adjacent to Byzantine city.
 
I really like these ideas, especially Songhai's and Egypt's new U-everything. Just one thing, the Russian streltsy should be strelets, if you want the unit to be singular and not plural.
 
I'm curious if adding in alternative unique for each civ would be good for a potential third expansion. 1 new UA and 2 new unique others which could all be swapped to form up to 8 different combos per civ. I'm not sure if I like that better than adding a third unique to all civs, but it'd be pretty cool and really get the forums speculating.

With these unique, I think Rome's is both boring and underpowered. Giving them a unique aqueduct or a roman baths building would make a lot of sense.

How about the UA: All Roads Lead to Rome: Internal trade routes with the capital produce 20% more :c5production: Units produced in a connected City have :c5plus:1:c5moves: inside your territory.
 
meowschwitz said:
I'm curious if adding in alternative unique for each civ would be good for a potential third expansion. 1 new UA and 2 new unique others which could all be swapped to form up to 8 different combos per civ. I'm not sure if I like that better than adding a third unique to all civs, but it'd be pretty cool and really get the forums speculating.

With these unique, I think Rome's is both boring and underpowered. Giving them a unique aqueduct or a roman baths building would make a lot of sense.

How about the UA: All Roads Lead to Rome: Internal trade routes with the capital produce 20% more :c5production: Units produced in a connected City have :c5plus:1:c5moves: inside your territory.
Click to expand...

They could do that, plus add a second leader for each civ (like the prior games had). I'd totally buy and expansion that was just that. Granted, for some of the Civs it would be tough to select a second leader to use (or voice properly).
 
Sweden

Neutrality: Each peace treaty without an alliance gives a trade bonus between Sweden and other party.

Blast Furnace (replaces Forge): +15% production of land units. +1 :c5production: for each worked Mine and Lumber Mill within city borders.

Leather Cannon (replaces Cannon): 3 movement, can move after bombarding

The UA might look similar to the previous ability, but stresses Sweden's history as a non-aligned nation that has stayed out of most modern conflicts, trying to broker peace. As a neutral nation, Sweden maintained a strong military throughout the Cold War, and a role as a major arms exporter.
 
I'd also like a point system to make your own civ via game menus, like Master of Orion 2 had. Each thing costs different amounts of points, you have a limit. Make some of the selections mutually exclusive (like if they're too powerful of combos)
 
codepoet said:
I'd also like a point system to make your own civ via game menus, like Master of Orion 2 had. Each thing costs different amounts of points, you have a limit. Make some of the selections mutually exclusive (like if they're too powerful of combos)
Click to expand...

I would love that so hard. They'd obviously have the pre-configured civilizations available, but to be able to stitch together your favorite UA with your favorite UU/UB/UI combination. Wow.

I'd be in heaven, though, if they did something like this:

Pick a pre-made civilization or creat your own once your'e in the game, and can see what the starting area looks like. I'm a believer that historical civilizations were shaped as much by their interactions with their neighbors (war, trade, scientific and cultural exchange) as they were by their environment. The environment largely dictates what options a civilization has available to them, and thus greatly effects how that civilization develops.

As it is now, if you start the game as England in the middle of a desert, are you really going to get a Ship of the Line later? No, you're going to develop Camel Archers, realistically.
 
codepoet said:
They could do that, plus add a second leader for each civ (like the prior games had). I'd totally buy and expansion that was just that. Granted, for some of the Civs it would be tough to select a second leader to use (or voice properly).
Click to expand...

I don't think we'd get second leaders because they add little to gameplay variation (if you can add a new UA on it's own) and are resource intensive to create in comparison to other new things. As cool as it would be, I don't think we'll see new leaders.
 
These are cool ideas. I love the Nile River one.

I think China (moreso than Japan) should get a boost for stealing tech. Maybe a spy boost or something like that. The real life China reminds me so much of the game grubbers with their spies taking technologies away... with Chinese hackers and cyber attacks and all of that... seems like its what modern China does to get ahead.
 
ferretbacon said:
I would love that so hard. They'd obviously have the pre-configured civilizations available, but to be able to stitch together your favorite UA with your favorite UU/UB/UI combination. Wow.

'Snipped...
Click to expand...

As cool as adapting to your environment would be, (and it's something they've embraced with religion), I find that loosely comparing and competing historical cultures is part of the novelty and fun of the civilization series. I think it would be better suited for a basis of a spin-off or Alpha Centauri successor as those wouldn't be as based in history. Also, Start Bias lessens the argument you made in regards to England
 
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