TSG58 Results and Congratulations

A list of the submissions for this game is assembled here. The list is compiled by date and also by score.

First place goes to glory7 with a 1635 AD (Turn 237) Culture victory.

Second place goes to pkf with a 1690 AD (turn 248) Culture victory while goes to maleen with a 1720 AD (turn 254) Culture win.

There were 540 downloads with 57 submissions for this game.

Congratulations to the trophy winners and to all who played this game and participated in the discussions.

Special thanks to AlanH for keeping the submission system working.

Please note, wanted to ask the following questions for feedback:
1. How did lack of ruins affect your games, is this something we should use more often?
2. How did Policy Saving affect your games since G&K and updates have modified it. Is it a deal breaker or is it something we should do more often?

leif erikson said:

Please note, wanted to ask the following questions for feedback:
1. How did lack of ruins affect your games, is this something we should use more often?
2. How did Policy Saving affect your games since G&K and updates have modified it. Is it a deal breaker or is it something we should do more often?

Click to expand...

ad 1

should become the standard setting for GOTM

ad 2

can live with either option

Congratulation for winners!

1. How did lack of ruins affect your games, is this something we should use more often?
AIs had less money. Beginning of the game was slower (lack of free gold/population/tech). I like ruins but I had a great game without them.

2. How did Policy Saving affect your games since G&K and updates have modified it. Is it a deal breaker or is it something we should do more often?
I tied to use policy saving but miscalculated. I don't think it is game breaking. It could be interesting how policy saving would affect science or diplomacy game. In those games sometimes you hit one or even two policies before renaissance. Policy savings would allow to build Oracle fast and save fill rationalism tree faster.

1) I agree with Hieschen on this one; please keep Ancient Ruins disabled

2) I am in favor of leaving SP saving enabled; it saves a few turns at best but is the same for everyone; for me it would prevent doing things such as declaring war on a friendly CS just because my next SP is going to pop a few turns before entering the Renaissance period; saving up culture for Industrial SPs can be more detrimental than beneficial since you are forfeiting a lot of very useful benefits early in the game when they are needed the most; in conclusion, I think that leaving SP saving enabled is just a convenience for those that feel that holding on to that culture for a little longer is beneficial

1) no ancient ruins is fine with me - it allows for more comparable results (esp. on islands when there is only one ruin at starting location - free pop/culture ruin here outshines advanced weapons by quite a lot) and eliminates some of the luck.


2) please disable it. timing policies is one the most important aspects of civ5 and should stay that way. policy saving would make science games a culturesaving fest all of a sudden and take away some of the skill needed to time it.

1) i always like ruins for its surprises. but i can see turning it off creates a more balanced playfield

2) see pkf

1) Unless it is an islands map, I think either way is fine.
2) The standard setup should be no policy saving.

I think both of these discussions have been done to death before, so I am going to stay out of it!

Since you asked:

1. Leaving them out once in a while is OK, but should not be default. They are part of the game. A good player makes his own luck.

2. I cant see much use for policy saving.

Halcyan2 said:

I think both of these discussions have been done to death before, so I am going to stay out of it!

Click to expand...

Not really looking for a discussion, only opinions. And thanks fro keeping it civil.

I like both options occasionally, it is nice to have no ruins sometimes, but most of the time I like them in. Same with policy saving, from time to time this option will make things interesting, having it on all the time eliminates some strategic decisions and timing.

Ruins makes game more tricky - i.e. in last map my first too ruins were maps of sea ^^. Some1 can have culture and 1 citizen, hence he will be in much better state from start.

And I think that policy saving should be always on, since even if u calculate everything u can not predict that cultural city state will ask to find world wonder and u will find it next turn and must take policy which u do not need.

No ruins pls. but I will play either way. some.

I like the ruins in for the fun factor! And I like the policy saving option since it allows me to be lazy and imprecise. But I agree with Maxym though, I think the defaults should be yes to ruins and no to policy saving - but a change is OK once in a while.

I've been thinking about these issues quite a bit.

Generally I am in favor of ruins, but I can think of a few situations where a lucky ruins can have too disproportionate of an effect:

1. Babylon (early tech discovery to Writing results in a much earlier free GS)

2. The Huns (early upgrade from Warrior -> Battering Ram is overpowered)

and maybe

3. The Mayans (early tech discovery helps you get Theology in time for the first baktun, resulting in an early great person)

4. Spain (the ruins aren't really the issue. It's that Spain's UA for discovering natural wonders results in such major divergences, that ruins only add to greater randomness. If anything, the best way to address Spain's UA IMHO is for isolated starts or archipelago maps).


Looks like we are due for another Huns game soon. If so, I actually would prefer to see No Ancient Ruins in that game. Obviously, an early Battering Ram is crazy good for Domination victory (which the first Huns game was). But even for Science/Diplomacy/Culture, an early Battering Ram is equivalent to a couple of free Settlers and a pile of gold. *Maybe* if it was Immortal or Deity level, the AI's extra units would be enough to balance out the early Battering Ram, but if it's an easier difficulty level, I would actually vote for no ancient ruins with the Huns.



Reading the responses regarding Policy Saving, I find it interesting (but not unsurprising) that most of the players who tend to submit faster times do not want policy saving, with the argument that it takes away some of the skill required to time things.

Unofficial Handicap Ranking:

1. I believe the point of the GotM is to have as similar of a game experience as possible to compare against each other and learn. Ruins make the games between players less similar. I feel that ruins off should be the default, and 1 of 5 to 10 should have them on for variety. The reason I like the GotM so much is same map, same VC, same rules, I'm out of excuses as for my poor play =)

2. Even though I am horrible at this, I believe that policy saving should not be enabled by default. I do see that managing culture and research to gain faster finish turns is a part of the game. As long as that is viewed as a fun and skillful facet of Civ5, I think it should be there.

I am for ruins - more fun, chance to have better results if you are lucky. Even when I was very lucky, Glory7 was 100 turns faster anyway. The conditions are never equal - you have CS requests, or simple luck where your scout goes - just like in normal life.

I am for policy savings too, more options more fun.