Deity Challenge #18 - Carthage/Large Islands

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jeespoks

Warlord
Joined
Aug 27, 2011
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There has been only a few water maps on Deity Challenge series so this time it's Carthage on Large Islands. I stumbled upon this nice map and after playing 40 turns or so thought it could be ok for a DC.

Immortal or starting Deity players, I believe you'll feel comfortable on this one. Carthage has bonuses which will make your early game easier on water maps and the map itself, even if it might not look like really good at first sight, will give you some tools to help with the early progress.


CARTHAGE

Phoenician Heritage – All coastal cities get a free Harbor. Units may cross mountains after the first Great General is earned, taking 50 health damage if they end a turn on a mountain.
African Forest Elephant - Replaces horseman, 25 production/50 faith more expensive, +2 combat bonus, -1 movement, -10% combat to enemy units that are adjacent, greatly increases great general generation.
Quinquereme- Replaces Trireme, +3 combat.


Settings:
Standard speed/Standard size/Large Islands
Quick Combat on, Quick Movement on

All DLC is enabled, sorry about that.
 

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I've been playing on large islands all week in the Mesix HoF Swedish Challenges and have a good feel for how they work. I will play this map since its been a while since I did a diety challenge. I am thinking about moving to the hill next to the mountain for a science attempt. Of course, an island map means Gallealas attack also.
 
budweiser said:
I've been playing on large islands all week in the Mesix HoF Swedish Challenges and have a good feel for how they work. I will play this map since its been a while since I did a diety challenge. I am thinking about moving to the hill next to the mountain for a science attempt. Of course, an island map means Gallealas attack also.
Click to expand...

Oh, I didn't know there were other challenges going atm on with Large Islands :) I'm glad you'll still give this one a try.

More info about this map:
Spoiler :
To make the good old Galleas/Frigate wipe out a bit harder hopefully, I handpicked the opponents. All of them have a water related UU or UA. Also I feel Large Islands might not be as easy for Domination as Archipelago.
 
jeespoks said:
More info about this map:
Spoiler :
To make the good old Galleas/Frigate wipe out a bit harder hopefully, I handpicked the opponents. All of them have a water related UU or UA. Also I feel Large Islands might not be as easy for Domination as Archipelago.
Click to expand...
I have very little faith in naval AI, hopefully I'll be proven wrong this time.

Light Cleric said:
Looks like a pretty interesting map. Maybe I should LP this one, people seem to be looking for some naval action for a change and I haven't played much Large Islands.
Click to expand...
Do it! I'll probably skip this one, but I'll be glad to watch. :)
 
The Pilgrim said:
I have very little faith in naval AI, hopefully I'll be proven wrong this time.
:)
Click to expand...

I don't think you will be, AI still struggles, especially with strategic thinking but is fairly competent making you lose boats if it can. That in itself is a nice change ;)
 
It's been a long time since I tried a water based map, so I decided to start this. To get a real challenge i will go for a culture victory.

Spoiler :


I have just finished education, and are trying to decide if I should research Astronomy for faster science or acoustics for opera houses...

It feels like everything is moving very slow, but I guess it has a to do with the map type. I got the 5th religion, but all buildings where already taken, and I have built no wonders yet.
 

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I've been a bit disapppointed by the Carthage GotM being Pangea, so i'll give this one a try. Still have too get a Deity win too.
Mhh, settling on place for river or on the hill for hill bonus and observatory. :think:
 
Bob Morane said:
I've been a bit disapppointed by the Carthage GotM being Pangea, so i'll give this one a try. Still have too get a Deity win too.
Mhh, settling on place for river or on the hill for hill bonus and observatory. :think:
Click to expand...

I did the hill and chopped the trees. I'm 30 or 40 turns in.

This is how large islands works. You usually have space for 2 or 3 cities. Sometimes you have a CS on your island. Most everyone is reachable by coast. There are 2 or 3 huts on your island and a barb camp to clear. Its best to get out and meet everyone early.
 
jeespoks said:
All DLC is enabled, sorry about that.
Click to expand...

About a month back, I asked if a DC could be offered that didn't use DLC and Pilgrim nicely did so. But since then, people have apologized when DCs do use all the DLC. There's no need for such apologies. Any time there's one without DLC, I'll happily play it. I'm still looking for my first Deity win, and I think I could get stronger by watching top players play a game that I'm playing too. But it would be unreasonable for me to expect that y'all would often play without the whole game. Carry on. I learn some just by watching.
 
Gori the Grey said:
About a month back, I asked if a DC could be offered that didn't use DLC and Pilgrim nicely did so. But since then, people have apologized when DCs do use all the DLC. There's no need for such apologies. Any time there's one without DLC, I'll happily play it. I'm still looking for my first Deity win, and I think I could get stronger by watching top players play a game that I'm playing too. But it would be unreasonable for me to expect that y'all would often play without the whole game. Carry on. I learn some just by watching.
Click to expand...

that's cool. i appreciate the sentiment. the problem is usually just a simple action we would normally never take--unticking the dlc's before you can enter single player menus. often you start a game, realize it's good to use as a DC and then submit it. but i'll try and remember to start some games specifically with DLC in mind.

i just played a japan/Immo game that I might submit and i TOTALLY forgot about dlc stuff, haha. im also tempted to not submit cuz it's quite easy, even for me--by t123 i had 3 caps down and got Machinery 2 turns later. if it's easy for me, someone will win this with dom pre-t150, haha. will be a good reason for me to start again with them unticked. it will be a day or two til i decide though.
 
Gori the Grey said:
About a month back, I asked if a DC could be offered that didn't use DLC and Pilgrim nicely did so. But since then, people have apologized when DCs do use all the DLC. There's no need for such apologies. Any time there's one without DLC, I'll happily play it. I'm still looking for my first Deity win, and I think I could get stronger by watching top players play a game that I'm playing too. But it would be unreasonable for me to expect that y'all would often play without the whole game. Carry on. I learn some just by watching.
Click to expand...

You should just convince yourself to purchase DLCs. I'll give you one of my god-mode start saves that you can use to practice tinkering your deity strategies. I had a Babylon start last weekend that I played "OCC" until turn ~160, rushed tech bombers with 3/4/6 RA chains and won by domination with bombers&cavs I think it was at turn 229. All this popping wonders like I was playing on emperor, thanks to broken OP petra starts (which, from my PoV is even more broken than DF)


I haven't been playing DCs much but always read the thread and I must say I thought the main reason why DCs were mostly Pangaeas was because the community struggling at deity, struggled on Pangaeas (maybe continents) but rarely on other map types. Anyway I'm not criticizing the pick, I'll read nonetheless.
 
Spoiler :


For archipelogo map, I go 1-2 city frigates. For this large islands map, I found 2 good positions (who can resist GBR with lots of sea resources.. and 3rd city with 2 pearls and mt. fuji was nice too) so I went for 3 city tradition.

Problem was lack of iron.. no CS had it! 2 of them had it at the 3rd ring but never got them within their borders (have no idea why). Other AIs did not have excess iron too. I checked diplo screen for every turn and could buy 6 irons from Korea, but that was it. Later I could buy 3 irons from byz, and I found 4th city on top of 6 iron too.

Usual frigate all-in strategy:

SP: tradition - commerce left side - after that w/e needed
Tech: optics - masonry - philosophy - iron working - compass - education - navigation. After that go for chemistry.

Education at t115, navigation at t129.

Built heroic epic at cap before making galleass. I think I bought 2 libs at expos to get NC fast and bought 1 barracks to build heroic epic.

DoFed with many guys, but Dutch and Denmark attacked me. I used "CS shield" - vatican city took care of Danish navy and troops.

Just defended till I get 6 frigates. Liberated Jakarta from holland and kept stacking up XPs by killing them. Took Amsterdam at t148. Most of frigates got range upgrade by then - slower than usual pace as i could not stack XPs during the galleass timing.

Meanwhile, everyone denouced Denmark and attacked - he is basically dead. After that, poly was the target and got DoWed by England, Korea, and Byz, but he was #1 at that time and I have not seen any city captures (I assume that they are wasting units)

I bribed ottoman to DoW other civs (including ones he did DoF) and I attacked him. My navy size is getting bigger as I capture enemy ships (I have one sea beggar, if you look at the screenshot)

Took istanbul around t165. Good thing about Dido is with free harbor your production is decent and your gpt is really high. Happiness has been a serious problem as there is only one happy CS and damn Dannish spy did coup twice on my culture CS.

This one is taking longer than usual (due to the lack of iron and no early XP stacking from getting one civ with galleass and I also did make several stupid mistakes and that costed several turns too), but I expect that frigates can finish the game. I will beeline to battleships, for just in case. with several RAs and decent spt my science itself is not that bad - researching military science at t156 is not bad, right?

Not sure that I should try Brandenburg so that I can get range upgraded frigate right from the start. I had not tried any world wonder so far, as almost every wonder is risky in deity and none of the wonders is required for deity win anyway (especially for the water map).

 

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Bob Morane said:
I've been a bit disapppointed by the Carthage GotM
Spoiler :
being Pangea,
so i'll give this one a try. Still have too get a Deity win too.
Mhh, settling on place for river or on the hill for hill bonus and observatory. :think:
Click to expand...

you may want to hide that part as some players who participate both in DC and GotM could get unwanted map knowledge.
 
^^Yeah, I wish I didn't see that bit of info yesterday. Now I'm conflicted on doing the GotM >.>.
 
budweiser said:
I did the hill and chopped the trees. I'm 30 or 40 turns in.

This is how large islands works. You usually have space for 2 or 3 cities. Sometimes you have a CS on your island. Most everyone is reachable by coast. There are 2 or 3 huts on your island and a barb camp to clear. Its best to get out and meet everyone early.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tips on map. Yeah, observatory and early hill production probably beats watermill and gardens, at least if going science. Culture might be different, but that 50% science will probably be much needed on Deity.
 
Light Cleric said:
Spoiler :

Out of curiosity, am I the only one who thinks One With Nature is sick on this map? +12 faith :crazyeye:
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
Nope, I was very close to taking it but took God of the Sea instead. It was choosing between 10 hammers vs 12 faith but I thought the hammers would help more since the terrain was hammer poor.
 
jeespoks said:
Spoiler :
Nope, I was very close to taking it but took God of the Sea instead. It was choosing between 10 hammers vs 12 faith but I thought the hammers would help more since the terrain was hammer poor.
Click to expand...

Spoiler :
I thought about that and it is a bit of a tradeoff, but you could make that up with a production belief like Guruship or Religious Community.
 
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