Playable Egypt Respawn/Mamluk Sultanate

H

Huusi

Chieftain
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
2
Hey everybody!

I really enjoy playing this mod, awesome work Leoreth! :)

I´m not sure if this has been suggested before (I´ve not read every thread in this subforum) , but I think it would be awesome if medieval Egypt was playable.
It could be similar to Italy:
choosable in the 3000BC/600AD szenario (not like Iran), a conditional spawn when not chosen by a human and have own UU, UB, UP, UHV and stability map.

For the UU a mounted unit related to the Mamluks would be pretty obvious, replacing the knight or maybe an early cuirassier like the moorish camel gunner.
The UB is a little harder, perhaps something religious (judging by wikipedia thats what they have mostly been building).
A UP could be something desert-related, like removing the movement penalty, because their territory is quite desert-heavy.
3 interesting UHV-goals should definatly be doable, but I somewhat lack ideas. Here are some not well thought-out ones:
- A control territory goal comes to mind,either a territory they actually have controlled, or one of those "do something they didn´t manage in reality" goals.
- If we decide the egypt respawn should represent an Islam sultanate and not a possible coptik kingdom, some Islam-related goal might be an Idea.
- A goal that tells you to stay alive and independent is historically fitting, but it would be to easy unless we get the Ottoman, France and England to really try for egypt.
- A more realistic option might be a teching goal, which is historically justified by the fact that Egypt was technologically backward in the 16th to 18th century, the goal would be to prevent that.
- a "prevent european colonies in north Africa" goal would be good for gameplay, but not that historically accurate.

A stability map should probably be based on the Mamluk-sultanate-territory at its peak (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k6-75aNOY7o/TOv6PAn3O0I/AAAAAAAAAGs/-Fh_Raj8siQ/s1600/h-mamluks.gif) and adjusted to fit gameplay.

I know most of my ideas are not very concrete, I´m just trying to present my ideas.
Any thoughts and ideas? Feel free to critizise ;).
 
Huusi said:
Hey everybody!

I really enjoy playing this mod, awesome work Leoreth! :)

I´m not sure if this has been suggested before (I´ve not read every thread in this subforum) , but I think it would be awesome if medieval Egypt was playable.
It could be similar to Italy:
choosable in the 3000BC/600AD szenario (not like Iran), a conditional spawn when not chosen by a human and have own UU, UB, UP, UHV and stability map.

For the UU a mounted unit related to the Mamluks would be pretty obvious, replacing the knight or maybe an early cuirassier like the moorish camel gunner.
The UB is a little harder, perhaps something religious (judging by wikipedia thats what they have mostly been building).
A UP could be something desert-related, like removing the movement penalty, because their territory is quite desert-heavy.
3 interesting UHV-goals should definatly be doable, but I somewhat lack ideas. Here are some not well thought-out ones:
- A control territory goal comes to mind,either a territory they actually have controlled, or one of those "do something they didn´t manage in reality" goals.
- If we decide the egypt respawn should represent an Islam sultanate and not a possible coptik kingdom, some Islam-related goal might be an Idea.
- A goal that tells you to stay alive and independent is historically fitting, but it would be to easy unless we get the Ottoman, France and England to really try for egypt.
- A more realistic option might be a teching goal, which is historically justified by the fact that Egypt was technologically backward in the 16th to 18th century, the goal would be to prevent that.
- a "prevent european colonies in north Africa" goal would be good for gameplay, but not that historically accurate.

A stability map should probably be based on the Mamluk-sultanate-territory at its peak (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_k6-75aNOY7o/TOv6PAn3O0I/AAAAAAAAAGs/-Fh_Raj8siQ/s1600/h-mamluks.gif) and adjusted to fit gameplay.

I know most of my ideas are not very concrete, I´m just trying to present my ideas.
Any thoughts and ideas? Feel free to critizise ;).
Click to expand...

The Egypt respawn is a combined representation of the Fatimids, Ayyubids and Mamluks at the moment. They should probably get north Africa at least to Tunis as part of the Fatimid and Ayyubid territories at their peak as well in their stability map (and maybe all the way to the Atlantic, as the Fatimids controlled at their peak, and to Yemen, as the Ayyubids ruled at theirs).

I would have the UU be the Mamluk, since Mamluk soldiers were an important part of the military of both the Ayyubid and Mamluk states. Replacing Cuirassiers is probably too late; I'd have it be a Knight UU, maybe just a cheaper Knight?

I'd make the UP be something about trade. All three states were heavily dependent on the trade that passed through their borders between the East and Europe, via the Red Sea and Alexandria. One other thought is giving them the ability to upgrade Slaves into military units, except that they don't get any Slave-producing territories. The Ayyubids were especially known for founding many Madrassas, but that's already the Arab UB.
 
Right, a UP about trade sounds good! I didnt think of that.

Locutus_Morti said:
Treated like Italy, I assume? (That is, doesn't spawn if Egypt is alive, requires at least 2 independent cities in Egypt)
Click to expand...

I was comparing it with Italy in the fact that the spawn is conditional, not the exact conditions. I rather thought of low arabian stability (as it probably is already), because there are rarely independent cities in egypt in the 11th century in my games.
 
Souk's are not unique to Egypt though. I know firsthand that souks are souks in Lebanon and Syria at least. If the Mamluk come as respawn, old Egyptians should represent Copts.

Might as well go the whole boar, Iraq-respawn (hey that'd be fun XD), Babylon becomes Assyrians, Syria respawn, Phoenicia (does anyone recognize the sound files because it's definitely not Arabic or any Syriac dialect I've heard) becomes Maronites, and so on. I think if these become eventuality, we might as well give the Shia's representation.
 
An UB doesn't have to be completely unique to a civ.

Many other civs have an UB that is also common in other places. But there is a special link to that civ so it is an appropriate UB for that civ.
For example, Stock Exchanges exist all over the world. But England played a big role in the "development" of the Stock Exchange.

Same story for many other UB. So the Souq is an appropriate UB for the Mamluks.
 
I don't see a problem with medieval egypt becoming playable, though AI egypt should continue to be conditional to not make the arab UHV impossible.

For UHVs, controlling Mecca and Jerusalem plus humbling the Ottomans should be involved.
 
One potential UHV: Destroy 100 (50?) Ottoman, Mongol or European units by 1517 (?).

Represents the defeat of the Mongols by the Mamluks, the Crusaders by the Ayyubids and conflicts with the Ottomans (that ultimately resulted in the fall of the Mamluks). 1517 was when Egypt actually fell under Ottoman control.
 
Mongols don't make much prescence in the middle-east much of the time, I don't want to have to delcare a Jihad on central asia.
Playable Egypt should spawn later to represent Muhammad Ali with modernization goals, before that time native Egyptians weren't in government and barely even in the army.
 
Pavel Chichikov said:
Mongols don't make much prescence in the middle-east much of the time, I don't want to have to delcare a Jihad on central asia.
Playable Egypt should spawn later to represent Muhammad Ali with modernization goals, before that time native Egyptians weren't in government and barely even in the army.
Click to expand...


THe mamluks defeat the mongols..

300px-Campaign_of_the_Battle_of_Ain_Jalut_1260.svg.png


I think a good ideia mamluks in DOC..and with one of their UHV defeat Mongols,Turks and another idiots
 
I think the point is not that there wasn't any mongolian presence in the Middle East historically but rather that the Mongolian in DoC don't have a big presence there in most of the games. Even though sometimes they seem to hang around for a long time in Persia and even Arabia (when playing as European civ), eventually there a far to few units to actually destroy enough of them without having to go for their core lands.

I just overflew the wikipedia article for the Mamluk Sultanate (I know it's not the best source, but the best I could get hands on that quickly) and I think a nice idea for a UU might be a bahri, replacing the knight. Or, if there are already too many knight replacements, just kick out the bahri and have the barracks mentioned in the article instead. They could maybe give a :hammers: bonus on coastal and river tiles?

Here's the part from wikipedia I mean:
His mamluks, numbering between 800 and 1,000 horsemen, were called the Bahris, after the Arabic word bahr (بحر), meaning sea or large river, because their barracks were located on the island of Rawda in the Nile. They were mostly drawn from among the Kipchak Turks/Cumans who controlled the steppes north of the Black Sea.
Click to expand...
 
yurisusuki said:
THe mamluks defeat the mongols..
Click to expand...

He means in-game, I think.

I think a good ideia mamluks in DOC..and with one of their UHV defeat Mongols,Turks and another idiots
Click to expand...

It'd be nice if you toned down the racistic talk, unless you are referring to their behaviour in-game, of course.
 
People on this website are so sensitive. I'm sure he wasn't referring to the myth of the Caliphate's tolerance and technological mastery or anything like that.
 
Oh here we go. Please confine your posts to the subject of the game.
 
Pavel Chichikov said:
Mongols don't make much prescence in the middle-east much of the time, I don't want to have to delcare a Jihad on central asia.
Playable Egypt should spawn later to represent Muhammad Ali with modernization goals, before that time native Egyptians weren't in government and barely even in the army.
Click to expand...


I did say Ottoman, Mongol OR European. You don't have to fight any Mongols at all to win such a UHV. Also, at the very least, the Mongols frequently get their Egypt invasion force of about 10-15 units (and probably should get it more often), even if they don't usually manage to do much with it.
 
strijder20 said:
He means in-game, I think.



It'd be nice if you toned down the racistic talk, unless you are referring to their behaviour in-game, of course.
Click to expand...

If I remember well there is only one human race ..

But excuse anyway

Hightower said:
I did say Ottoman, Mongol OR European. You don't have to fight any Mongols at all to win such a UHV. Also, at the very least, the Mongols frequently get their Egypt invasion force of about 10-15 units (and probably should get it more often), even if they don't usually manage to do much with it.
Click to expand...

Could do the same with invasions to some countries .. appears in MIddle east a Mongol horde to invade Egypt
 
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