AI City Placement and 1700 AD cities

Hippo8085 · Jun 23, 2013

Simple question: Which cities should the AI settle most of the time?

We already see an implementation of this with the Aztecs, the AI almost always settling the same five cities. What would be ideal is certain other tight areas (looking at Europe) having the best placement for the AI, yet still maintaining history. While making the game slightly more determined, it should drastically help gameplay, both helping the AI and cutting down on razes.

This does not mean optimal city placement for human. No moving capitals. All initial settlers should be used in core and immediately surrounding historical areas ( you can decide what that means).

Eventually this should carry over into development of the 1700 AD scenario, with these being the pre-placed cities on the map. This would likely take up too much of that thread if discussed there.

Below will be the agreed on for the core and historical area which should be settled (see America's and Russia's cores not extending to what should be settled with initial settlers) other than the capital and pre-placed cities for each civilization. The second post will be colonial regions.

Egypt
Babylonia
China
Greece
India
Phoenicia (including Carthage)
Persia (flips Shush)
Rome (flips Celtic Mediolanum)
Tamils (flips independent Kanchipuram)
Ethiopia
Korea
Maya
Japan
Vikings
Arabia (mostly flips)
Khmer
Indonesia
Moors (flips independent Marrakesh)
Spain
France
England
Germany (flips independent cities Hamburg/Lübeck and Wien)
Russia
Mandinka
Poland
Portugal
Inca (mostly city takeovers)
Mongols (flips Manchurian city)
Aztec (already done) - Huaxyacac (on stone), Coyuca (1N of deer), Tuitan (1W of spice), Teotihuacan (between gold and cotton)
Congo
America

Others are covered by the above, covered by just their capital, or will be covered by colonization.

Hippo8085 · Jun 23, 2013

Colonization regions. This is not complete so feel free to go for other areas as well.

Canada
Central America/Caribbean
Northern South America
Brazil
Argentina
West African coast
South Africa
Siberia
East Africa (native cities but also the Horn)
Australia/New Zealand

The United States and Mexico portions of North America and the Peru portion of South America are covered by America, Aztec, and Inca, respectively

Certain regions (see India) will be different for 3000 BC and 600 AD scenarios. The 600 AD ones should be the ones to carry over to 1700 AD.

Finally, when specifying a city spot, keep in mind that often there are more than one tiles which get named that. Give a description of the tile as well.

VSarius · Jun 23, 2013

Hamburg/Lubeck should be de-emphasized, move Frankfurt 1N. As is, Hamburg/Lubeck merely crowd Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Berlin.

trfyrktrv · Jun 23, 2013

Starting Civ
China: Beijing*-Luoyang-Shanghai-Guanzhou-Dunhang-Shenyang-Dagou(Taiwan) (Maybe note enough city?)
Korea
Japan
Vikings
Spain
France Paris*-Bordeaux-Marseilles-(Strasbourg?)-Québec-Port Rupert-Louisbourg-Blanc Sablon (don't really know where to put this 2 cities for French Canada)Nouvelle Orléans-Pondichéry
England
Austria Wien*-Munchen-Budapest-Venedig(yes it should be independant but otherwise HRE will be really UP)-Rom
Russia
Poland
Portugal
Mughals
Turkey: Kostantiniyye*-Angora-Belgrad-Atina-Odessa-Sevastopol-Jerusalem-Baghdad-Mecce-Sanna--Cairo-Alexendria(don't know arab names)-Tripoli-Tunis-Alger (really a huge empire) independant Masqat what about Morea?
Thailand
Congo
Netherlands
Germany Berlin*Hambourg-Koenigsberg-(Freiburg? or French Strasbourg?)
America
Argentina
Brazil
Map of 1700
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/1700_CE_world_map.PNG

civ_king · Jun 23, 2013

VSarius said:
Hamburg/Lubeck should be de-emphasized, move Frankfurt 1N. As is, Hamburg/Lubeck merely crowd Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Berlin.

Hamburg spawns

iOnlySignIn · Jun 23, 2013

Germany needs an extra row of land tiles on the Baltic coast, period. But apparently adding that is a colossal undertaking due to city name maps.

civ_king · Jun 23, 2013

iOnlySignIn said:
Germany needs an extra row of land tiles on the Baltic coast, period. But apparently adding that is a colossal undertaking due to city name maps.

And stability maps and settler mapsx42

Lone Wolf · Jun 23, 2013

Germany needs an extra row of land tiles on the Baltic coast, period. But apparently adding that is a colossal undertaking due to city name maps.

And stability maps and settler mapsx42

If you mean "turning water to land and pushing Scandinavia northwards" then it's relatively easy (as opposed to adding columns or rows to the map itself.)

Leoreth · Jun 23, 2013

Lone Wolf said:
Nope, if you mean "turning water to land" then it's relatively easy (as opposed to adding columns to the map itself.)

VSarius · Jun 23, 2013

civ_king said:
Hamburg spawns

Which it shouldn't. Because it sucks.

Leoreth · Jun 23, 2013

VSarius said:
Which it shouldn't. Because it sucks.

Just a quick heads-up: your style of posting is more than mildly annoying.

Hippo8085 · Jun 23, 2013

Which it should, because otherwise HRE is left without a coastal city.

Also, see the note about balance of history and gameplay.

VSarius · Jun 23, 2013

Leoreth said:
Just a quick heads-up: your style of posting is more than mildly annoying.

I don't see a reason to tip-toe around things. Bluntly put, Hamburg is awful because the area around it is squashed between Dutch and Viking culture, as well as significant overlap with Frankfurt, which is a better city 1N. I could put In my opinion before every sentence but that is self-implied.

A coastal city on the area around Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia would serve that purpose better. Also representing the Prussian holdings of Brandenburg-Prussia. HRE could aim to found a city in that area as well, anything would be better than an unproductive Hamburg.

Lone Wolf · Jun 23, 2013

Poland will get in the way of HRE Baltic cities. You can't get anything good with Poland. Death to Poland, the betrayer of Slavic peoples to We$t :gripe:

Hippo8085 · Jun 23, 2013

Poland needs a city there more, Germany can have one near Hamburg. Or you can change the code yourself, it not being too difficult. This is the second thread you have derailed (Boers being the first), and I hope either you contribute to the discussion at hand or leave.

Extra German row sounds good. Should alleviate some stresses there with cramped civilizations and give a more accurate map.

I will start with France and Japan:
France should usually be Bordeaux, Marseille, and Brest. Lyon in the 3000 AD scenario does them absolutely no good.
Japan: Edo north of the river, Sapporo, and Nagasaki.

The Southerner · Jun 23, 2013

This is an important issue. Historically and culturally important cities are not neccessarily in ideal locations for growth, etc, in the game - but they must be for accuracy - that's what DoC is all about IMHO. Talking about Hamburg especially. The game needs Hamburg or Lubeck or Rostock or Kiel or etc. I think the two main contenders are Hamburg and Lubeck (which is the current setting).

If you want to have size 25 cities a la Civ 1 then found cities that no one has heard of IRL - but thats not DoC - that's another game.

iOnlySignIn · Jun 23, 2013

Maybe we should set up a vote for the removal of Poland. It's going to solve a ton of problems.

Edit: Done. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=499019

Cosmos1985 · Jun 24, 2013

VSarius said:
I don't see a reason to tip-toe around things. Bluntly put, Hamburg is awful because the area around it is squashed between Dutch and Viking culture, as well as significant overlap with Frankfurt, which is a better city 1N. I could put In my opinion before every sentence but that is self-implied.

A coastal city on the area around Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia would serve that purpose better. Also representing the Prussian holdings of Brandenburg-Prussia. HRE could aim to found a city in that area as well, anything would be better than an unproductive Hamburg.

Vikings only found Copenhagen/Roskilde about half of the times, and the Dutch doesn't spawn for 600 years. Especially without any Viking city, it's a fine city site - it's not as good as Frankfurt 1N, but you can only find maybe 1 or 2 other places in the whole map that is. Not every city spot is meant to be a ultra-extreme-super-location.

Leoreth · Jun 24, 2013

VSarius said:
I don't see a reason to tip-toe around things.

I don't see a reason to listen to someone who sounds like a five year old throwing a tantrum.

So we can both be happy with our decisions I guess.

VSarius · Jun 24, 2013

Leoreth said:
I don't see a reason to listen to someone who sounds like a five year old throwing a tantrum.

So we can both be happy with our decisions I guess.

Whatever man

AI City Placement and 1700 AD cities

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