New HRE UHV

Should the third HRE UHV be changed to represent Austria better?

  • Yes, I like the idea in the first post of this thread.

    Votes: 5 13.2%

  • Yes, but I think the changes should be different.

    Votes: 15 39.5%

  • No, the HRE is fine as it is.

    Votes: 18 47.4%
  • Total voters
    38
K

KievanRus

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 20, 2010
Messages
82
So, I've always had a hard time figuring out where the "vassalize 3 European civilizations" UHV came from as the HRE. I'm also a little disappointed that now that the HRE represents Austria after Prussia's spawn that there is no UHV representing Austria. I propose the following switch of UHVs:

Instead of "vassalize 3 European civilizations by 1600 AD" have it be "Allow no Ottoman cities on the European Continent by 1800 AD". This will force the player to live through Prussia's spawn and to play out a more Austrian-style goal.

Who likes it?
 
Does Constantinople count as Europe too? The thing is that if it doesn't, it's too easy - you'd often just have to take Athens then. And if it does, you need to capture a city that neither HRE or the Habsburgs ever held, and really had no special "relation" to. And Ottomans can both do really well and really bad.

I can see where you're coming from for sure, but it's not optimal to have a UHV that's so dependent on AI performance. Sometimes it'll even be won without you having to do anything.
 
3 vassals -> Charles V -> Habsburg Empire.

Being able to win the UHV before Prussia spawns is intentional.
 
Leoreth said:
Being able to win the UHV before Prussia spawns is intentional.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Otherwise the potential flips result in ridiculous (as in extremely unrealistic and gamey) efforts from the human player to circumvent it.

This is why Rome's UHV is changed to be winnable before Viking spawn, and China's UHV is changed to be winnable before Mongol spawn, India's before Mughal spawn, etc.
 
dont love the vassal goal, but i probably wouldnt play an HRE game that required playing past the prussian spawn
 
I agree with most of the posters here - the HRE should be able to complete its UHVs before Prussia spawns. Personally, the only problem I see with the current HRE UHV set is that other civs tend to prefer death to capitulation, and even that's just aggravating, not insurmountable.
 
Cosmos1985 said:
And if it does, you need to capture a city that neither HRE or the Habsburgs ever held, and really had no special "relation" to. And Ottomans can both do really well and really bad.
Click to expand...

Sometimes the UHVs work like that. Things that the civ wasn't able to accomplish, but certainly would have wanted to. Examples off the top of my head include Spain's goal to wipe Protestantism from Europe and Germany's goal to control Russia and England on top of France and Italy. And then you have UHVs, like Ethiopia's goal to found Catholicism, that dip straight into the realm of alternate history.
 
Please forgive my ignorance. I don't like vassalage generally - I don't understand the advantages of it. If anyone has the time to explain.
 
Access to more resources, expanded sphere of influence, extremely reliable ally, more land and population for domination victory, all without losing stability, possibly even gaining it. Vassals are very good and useful.
 
UnholyMudcrab said:
Sometimes the UHVs work like that. Things that the civ wasn't able to accomplish, but certainly would have wanted to. Examples off the top of my head include Spain's goal to wipe Protestantism from Europe and Germany's goal to control Russia and England on top of France and Italy. And then you have UHVs, like Ethiopia's goal to found Catholicism, that dip straight into the realm of alternate history.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but all those still makes sense, even if it's something the civ never achieved in irl - it's still "up their alley". Spain fought non-Catholics, Germanys WW2 invasion of those countries, that didn't succeed, but they actually tried though, and Ethiopia with it's special and quite unique history with Christianity and so on. To me all of these is plausible alternate history, whereas I don't recall ever having heard about HRE having ambitions to conquer Constantinople. I don't know, I may be out on a limb here. It just doesn't sound very HRE'ish to me - flavour-wise the vassal-goal seems way more plausible.
 
The Southerner said:
Please forgive my ignorance. I don't like vassalage generally - I don't understand the advantages of it. If anyone has the time to explain.
Click to expand...

You can gain their resources without capture their cities, it's benefit to your stability and tech speed.
 
Or instead you can add the following: Ensure there are no foreign cities in the Balkans and Italy
 
To me all of these is plausible alternate history, whereas I don't recall ever having heard about HRE having ambitions to conquer Constantinople. I don't know, I may be out on a limb here. It just doesn't sound very HRE'ish to me - flavour-wise the vassal-goal seems way more plausible.
Click to expand...

The Fourth Crusade besieged and sacked Constantinople, and among them were some Holy Roman crusaders. I don't find that to be sufficient historical background for a UHV though.
 
I agree that Hre should be more focused on Austria after Prussia spawns as it gives room to have both Germany and Austria in Europe and not the anschluss that is offen seen in games because HRE or Austria doesn't focus on balkans against turkey etc. It'sa cool idea I think.
 
I agree that vassalizations are not the best UHV, it requires you to do some odd things. Like conquering venentia and letting it go just before italian spawn, just so you guarantee their spawn and then invade and capitulate them.

What are the best civs to vassalize as HRE? Vassalization thresholds are not a widely known information.
 
I just don't like the 3 vassals goal. I caused Poland and France to collapse after they capitulated. Italy never spawned cause I held the peninsula.
 
Noodz said:
What are the best civs to vassalize as HRE?
Click to expand...
Portugal: peace vassal, very easy to get them to Friendly.

Poland: peace vassal, provoke Russia or Vikings into attacking them and they will ask you for help.

Spain/France/Russia: war vassal - this one is the hardest and requires some luck. Russia becomes easy prey if you sync your attack with the Mongol invasion but it can be hard to prevent them from collapsing. You may need to sacrifice some of your own Stability to help them, i.e. by Liberating their cities.
 
Portugal and Russia as vassals of the HRE seems ridiculous to me. A "kill X Ottoman units by 1700" goal sounds more historical to me, as it captures the Battle of Vienna and the Great Turk War.
 
Well, Portugal was in fact a vassal of the HRE...to be correct: under Habsburgian rule.

Ovious choices would be Portugal, Italy, Poland, Spain, Sweden and even France and Russia.
 
Portugal, Spain and the Netherlands are the historical choices, Italy also makes a lot of sense.
 
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