Let's get off it: FORUM SPLIT RAGE THREAD BUTTHURT 2013 EDITION

Aight.

Let's talk about the forum split.

Why was it good? Why was it bad? What impact has it had? What would you change about the split if you had the POWA?

Housecleaning:
Let's all respect that we have differing views on this topic and try not to be dicks to each other about it. Let's also try and not gang up on the mods. The decision was made a year ago to split the forums; it's in the past, so let's focus on the future and not on the past and how mad we are still about it and how mean/childish/foolish/dumb/asinine the mods were about the split last year.

Don't bring up April fools either. It doesn't matter when they announced it anymore because it happened, it's over, stop sobbing over a done deal. If we want to be constructive then we have to talk about tomorrow and not yesterday.

Have I mentioned we shouldn't talk about past actions at this point and instead focus on reasons why the split should be undone and not why it shouldn't have been done in the first place?

Edit: I forgot to put a Red Diamond symbol on this thread, but consider this a RD thread. Follow my rules or bannanation for you! (and no soup)

I'm curious as to why someone who came after the separation made a thread about the separation.

That said, I don't care for the change. I only frequent the Tavern as the most interesting discussions happen here whenever they do rarely come along.

Where is the don't care option?

My opinion started out being in favour of the split, back when the Chamber was at least moving even if not quite as active as I liked. I maintained hope that as time went on, people sick of <certain posters> would end up making their threads in the Chamber, where moderators would punish <certain posters> for derails and so on, and where the standard of discussion was generally higher to begin with. But a combination of (a) moderators not really doing that (partly because we don't report them enough), and (b) the momentum clearly swinging towards the Tavern (because, actually, more people liked the looser moderation in the Tavern, myself included, and couldn't be bothered to keep track of two separate forums with basically the same topics being discussed in them) meant that, as time went on, the the flow of traffic moved the other way, and the Chamber ended up dying a slow and rather unfortunate death.

It bears repeating, I was very much in favour of the split initially, and had plenty of patience to give it, because I realised that the positive effects, if they existed, would take a while to bear fruit. But the experiment didn't work, most people didn't like it, and it seems to have had a negative effect on OT in general. It should be reversed.

Mise said:

My opinion started out being in favour of the split, back when the Chamber was at least moving even if not quite as active as I liked. I maintained hope that as time went on, people sick of <certain posters> would end up making their threads in the Chamber, where moderators would punish <certain posters> for derails and so on, and where the standard of discussion was generally higher to begin with. But a combination of (a) moderators not really doing that (partly because we don't report them enough), and (b) the momentum clearly swinging towards the Tavern (because, actually, more people liked the looser moderation in the Tavern, myself included, and couldn't be bothered to keep track of two separate forums with basically the same topics being discussed in them) meant that, as time went on, the the flow of traffic moved the other way, and the Chamber ended up dying a slow and rather unfortunate death.

It bears repeating, I was very much in favour of the split initially, and had plenty of patience to give it, because I realised that the positive effects, if they existed, would take a while to bear fruit. But the experiment didn't work, most people didn't like it, and it seems to have had a negative effect on OT in general. It should be reversed.

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Indeed.

Synsensa said:

I'm curious as to why someone who came after the separation made a thread about the separation.

That said, I don't care for the change. I only frequent the Tavern as the most interesting discussions happen here whenever they do rarely come along.

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Do I not get a say?

Truth be told I made it because several people kept talking about polls and this subject and it needed a thread of it's own. I'm pretty disinterested in the subject for the most part but I felt people needed a place to voice their opinions and for whatever reason weren't making the thread/poll themselves.

One thing that does concern me is what impact the split had on overall OT activity. It's impossible to prove that the split drove away members. You can, however, build a decent circumstantial case that activity nose dived after the split and people have been very unsupportive of it and therefore they may be linked.

hobbsyoyo said:

One thing that does concern me is what impact the split had on overall OT activity. It's impossible to prove that the split drove away members. You can, however, build a decent circumstantial case that activity nose dived after the split and people have been very unsupportive of it and therefore they may be linked.

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This is really the only evidence you need.

Chamber:


Tavern:

^ Yeah, pretty much

Something that's worth considering wrt a remerge is: Will it drive away more posters?

The way I see it is that people who were so alienated by the split that they quit will not return because of a remerge one year later. However, if there are people who are so in favor of the Chamber that they will leave OT altogether, is a remerge worth the risk of losing even more posters?

Here's my pros/cons list from the other thread fwiw:
Benefits of remerge:
*Only one forum to check and use
*One less semi-dead forum on the board
*One forum means more mod eyes watching it, rather than splitting their attention across 2 forums
*Possibility of RD threads or OP rules of some sort preserves possibility of restricted discussion and free wheeling
*Finally shuts up people who still obsess about the split
*The high-brow/low-brow threads (and associated posters) will likely positively influence each other whilst remaining seperate

Downsides of remerge:
*Possibly harder to ban people from RD-type threads
*Will take effort from admins to remerge, making it less likely
*Will make it hard for mod staff to save face as it makes it look like their decision to split was a bad call
*Opens the door to other forum mergers which will be hotly contested and will take ages and many, many pages to reach a decision about
*People who obsess about the split will gloat about remerge forever
*Having to institute separate rules for separate threads (rather than completely separate forums) may be tedious or have unexpected/unintended consequences
*RD threads will probably prove even less popular than current Chamber threads and will probably go unused, much like Soapbox threads

Why is everyone jimmieing my rustles

Yeah, the Chamber is a withered vestige at this point.

Merge.

The thing is that if we merged the 2 subforums again, the mods would enforce stricter rules. At least, that's the sense I'm getting..

The way things are now, we are allowed a bit more leeway in the Tavern, even if we're still not allowed to post a partial nipple. That the Chamber doesn't get enough traffic is an issue, but we have enough individuals here who could make that place better. I think most people end up flocking to the Tavern instinctively, because it is a bit more chill. The Chamber is a place you visit every once in a while when you're feeling classy.

I was originally against the Split, but now I like it. I like the slow, better-thought-out dynamic of the Chamber. Tavern stuff moves faster (which is fine), but some topics require more thought before responding to, time which often bumps those threads to page 2 when they have to compete with faster threads.

Plus, I like the looser moderation of the Tavern, when you're up for a bit of ideological scrum instead of Socratic dialogue. Red Diamond never really solved that problem by itself. RD in that environment feels like Fun Police, as opposed to having a separate room with different expectations of conduct.

The split seems to have reduced activity so much. I prefer a larger forum with more discussion to several specialized forums.

warpus said:

The thing is that if we merged the 2 subforums again, the mods would enforce stricter rules. At least, that's the sense I'm getting..

The way things are now, we are allowed a bit more leeway in the Tavern, even if we're still not allowed to post a partial nipple. That the Chamber doesn't get enough traffic is an issue, but we have enough individuals here who could make that place better. I think most people end up flocking to the Tavern instinctively, because it is a bit more chill. The Chamber is a place you visit every once in a while when you're feeling classy.

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Yeah I'd caveat my answer with "as long as you keep moderation at Tavern levels".

Honestly the damage has already been done, the split seemed to chase off people and I dont think a merge at this point will bring them back. I wouldnt mind a merger though just to see if it helps activity, Id say red-diamond threads with chamber moderation, everything else gets tavern level moderation.

Vote NO!

Deleting the Chamber adds absolutely nothing to the Tavern and will make the former Chamber threads drop like a brick - Red Diamond or not.

I don't know how to copy paste on my phone so insert link to george wallace 'segregation now segregation tommorrow segregation forever'

This april fools joke should be put to an end!

I think not.. I like the drama it creates.

My gut says yes, my brain says no (no for what metatron and Cheezy said).
I'll go with my gut. It is this feeling that it is better psychology for the OT if we have a reunification. A better spirit. Also I want more moderation than the Tavern currently has. But if the unified OT has Tavern moderation I'd still prefer that.

I'd say merge. I don't see where any gain came from the split.