Fall of the Caucasians

Oregon Lee · Jul 7, 2013

The title got your attention, didn't it?
My computer lags way too much late game. So what I decided to do was role play, and pretend as if a natural disaster had hit my game in order to take out some civilization. Since I wanted to play as Japan, I really wanted the West out of the picture since I wanted to play with my immediate civilization.
What I decided was to get rid of Caucasians, and a great virus affected all Caucasians. So I did some research on who is actually considered Caucasian, and I was amazed! :eek:

Although very controversial, I concluded that most of Europe (the "Aryans")(excluding Finland and Hungary), the Semitics (Arab, Jews, Ethiopians (arguably)), and even the non-Tamil regions of India are Caucasian! On a 600 AD map start, that means I wiped out everything in Europe, everything in Africa (although I added a Makuria independent civilization just to keep Orthodox Christianity alive, although Catholicism is dead), all of the middle east (discluding Kashgar, Merv, and Samarkland since they are Turkish.)
The TURKS (of the Kashgar area) are the most complicated people to decide if they are Caucasian or not. From about half an hour of researching, I decided they don't make the cut to be subject to the virus that wipes them out. Meaning the Seljuq turks will spread through the Middle East, but have really nobody to conquer.
Most of India I also considered Caucasian, discluding the two Tamil cities in the south. Meaning all of hinduism was wiped out besides those two cities, and the Buddhist holy city is gone. The Hindu shrine and holy city moved to Kanchipuram, and the Buddhist shrine and holy city moved to Pagan.
Throughout the game I have to go to worldbuilder to wipe out civilizations from spawning in these areas. The Turks are really the only hope Europe has of being resettled, and I will allow civilizations to respawn out of Turkish cities. I will just pretend that they are adapting into a less Turkish appearance, and maybe Caucasians are reappearing. I will also be moving in the Hungarians and Finnish into Europe around the middle ages, as I've read they aren't Caucasian either. Obviously, NOW they have a mix. Good to keep in mind that all purities around the world mix and there really isn't any fine line.
---------------------------------------------------------
Hope this makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. If anyone has any suggestions or comments about this, please do! That's why I posted this here. It's interesting tampering with history and seeing how it plays out.
Please keep in mind I believe there is no clear-cut Caucasian line. It is a muddled and controversial topic, and it really depends on how far back in human anthropology you want to define it. Furthermore, I'm not being racist either.

Spoiler :

keli · Jul 7, 2013

Well to be honest, I always thought that we Hungarians are Caucasians, it turns out we are not

But the Arabs are; strange.
I don't get what North-Mongolian is tho.

IkM · Jul 7, 2013

keli said:
Well to be honest, I always thought that we Hungarians are Caucasians, it turns out we are not But the Arabs are; strange.
I don't get what North-Mongolian is tho.

Hungarians are Turanids just like Turks. they are (both, Turks and Hungarians) are mix of Mongoloids and Caucasoids. anyway, I'm a Turk but people think I'm british or french even some guessed swiss and german

Swarbs · Jul 7, 2013

keli said:
Well to be honest, I always thought that we Hungarians are Caucasians, it turns out we are not But the Arabs are; strange.
I don't get what North-Mongolian is tho.

It all depends on the racial definitions you make. RT seems to be following the typology of Meiners who basically differentiated the world into Caucasoid ('white'), Mongoloid ('yellow') and Negroid ('black'). But the differentiation is largely based on when they left Africa and where they went.

The Arabs end up being considered 'white' because they descended from a migration into Mesopotamia, where the Caucasian race originated from. Whereas the Hungarians are considered Mongoloid as they stemmed from a migration further east into China, then the Magyars moved back west relatively recently. North Mongolian represents the Mongol races as we would think of them, i.e. the ones who split off from the eastern (oriental) Mongoloid races and interbred with Slavs and other northern European people. But in reality it's far from that simple, given the degree of intermarrying and breeding across races over time.

As RT says, it's all quite confusing and potentially offensive depending on the context. In Russia, Caucasian is actually a worse racial insult than the n word, given the levels of racist discrimination against Chechens, Tajiks and other people who originate from the Caucasus.

The important thing is that by choosing to eliminate the Caucasoid race, he has actually ended up eliminating almost half the population of the world. Whoops

Leoreth · Jul 7, 2013

Relying on a German map about "racial theory" from the 1880s is probably not a very good idea.

IkM · Jul 7, 2013

nevermind...

Lone Wolf · Jul 7, 2013

As RT says, it's all quite confusing and potentially offensive depending on the context. In Russia, Caucasian is actually a worse racial insult than the n word, given the levels of racist discrimination against Chechens, Tajiks and other people who originate from the Caucasus.

Caucasians are not Caucasian :gripe:

IkM · Jul 7, 2013

Lone Wolf said:
Caucasians are not Caucasian

Leoreth · Jul 7, 2013

His point is that the supposed Caucasian "race" (insert more quotation marks if necessary) has very little to do with the geographical region, and the people who live there today.

Hightower · Jul 7, 2013

Leoreth said:
His point is that the supposed Caucasian "race" (insert more quotation marks if necessary) has very little to do with the geographical region, and the people who live there today.

Not really. The German crank who invented the term said something like "Georgians are the most beautiful people in the world, so I called the whole group Caucasians after them." So he very explicitly included peoples from the Caucasus.

But yeah, it's a totally bogus delineation of anything.

IkM · Jul 7, 2013

@Leoreth

Well, "caucasoids aren't caucasian" would be better, IMO. Thank you for the reply, btw.

Leoreth · Jul 7, 2013

Yeah. But I think getting the terminology of bogus pseudoscience right is pretty much a waste of time.

civ_king · Jul 7, 2013

Royal Tenenbaum said:
The title got your attention, didn't it?
My computer lags way too much late game. So what I decided to do was role play, and pretend as if a natural disaster had hit my game in order to take out some civilization. Since I wanted to play as Japan, I really wanted the West out of the picture since I wanted to play with my immediate civilization.
What I decided was to get rid of Caucasians, and a great virus affected all Caucasians. So I did some research on who is actually considered Caucasian, and I was amazed! Although very controversial, I concluded that most of Europe (the "Aryans")(excluding Finland and Hungary), the Semitics (Arab, Jews, Ethiopians (arguably)), and even the non-Tamil regions of India are Caucasian! On a 600 AD map start, that means I wiped out everything in Europe, everything in Africa (although I added a Makuria independent civilization just to keep Orthodox Christianity alive, although Catholicism is dead), all of the middle east (discluding Kashgar, Merv, and Samarkland since they are Turkish.)
The TURKS (of the Kashgar area) are the most complicated people to decide if they are Caucasian or not. From about half an hour of researching, I decided they don't make the cut to be subject to the virus that wipes them out. Meaning the Seljuq turks will spread through the Middle East, but have really nobody to conquer.
Most of India I also considered Caucasian, discluding the two Tamil cities in the south. Meaning all of hinduism was wiped out besides those two cities, and the Buddhist holy city is gone. The Hindu shrine and holy city moved to Kanchipuram, and the Buddhist shrine and holy city moved to Pagan.
Throughout the game I have to go to worldbuilder to wipe out civilizations from spawning in these areas. The Turks are really the only hope Europe has of being resettled, and I will allow civilizations to respawn out of Turkish cities. I will just pretend that they are adapting into a less Turkish appearance, and maybe Caucasians are reappearing. I will also be moving in the Hungarians and Finnish into Europe around the middle ages, as I've read they aren't Caucasian either. Obviously, NOW they have a mix. Good to keep in mind that all purities around the world mix and there really isn't any fine line.
---------------------------------------------------------
Hope this makes sense and doesn't offend anyone. If anyone has any suggestions or comments about this, please do! That's why I posted this here. It's interesting tampering with history and seeing how it plays out.
Please keep in mind I believe there is no clear-cut Caucasian line. It is a muddled and controversial topic, and it really depends on how far back in human anthropology you want to define it. Furthermore, I'm not being racist either.

Spoiler :

Indians aren't Caucasian.

Leoreth · Jul 7, 2013

There's also a mix-up of Caucasian and Aryan going on here. I also think that the American notion of Caucasian is different from the original ethnic grouping of the 19th century.

But as I said, this is a waste of brain matter (not to rag on the OP by the way).

IkM · Jul 7, 2013

civ_king said:
Indians aren't Caucasian.

There are tons of non-white people in europe. like; greeks, southern italians and some Hispanics. do you count them as caucasoids? if yes, why Indians aren't caucasoids?

Oregon Lee · Jul 7, 2013

Leoreth said:
There's also a mix-up of Caucasian and Aryan going on here. I also think that the American notion of Caucasian is different from the original ethnic grouping of the 19th century.

But as I said, this is a waste of brain matter (not to rag on the OP by the way).

Let me just remind you the point of this is about the alternate history of most of the world being gone in a 600 AD map while I'm playing as Japan.

Leoreth · Jul 7, 2013

Yes, hence my note in parentheses ... pseudoscience makes for fine alt-history scenarios and me speaking out against the ideology doesn't mean that I think it's a bad idea to play a game based on it.

Tigranes · Jul 8, 2013

Lone Wolf said:
Caucasians are not Caucasian

Moscow's Russians call all the people who look a little darker then them but are not clear-cut Oriental in appearance as Caucasians.

Even high ranking officials use ridiculous connotation: "Individuals of Caucasian Nationality".

Even educated people I met sometimes fail to realize that 3 South Caucasus Republics belong to 3 fundamentally different linguistic Families:

Spoiler :

Armenians are Indo-Europeans, like Slavs, or Germans, or Ossetinians.
Georgians are Caucasians (linguistically), like Abkhaz, or Chechens, or Kabardins.
Azeris are Altaic, like Balkars, or Karachays, or Turkmen (Turk)

It is also funny to read things like this: "Chechens, Tajiks and other people who originate from the Caucasus". Tajiks are from Central Asia, I wonder how they are even being confused with Caucasus :crazyeye:

.

To distinguish modern confusions from late 18th century ones here is a funny quote for you:

In Meiners's [original] unique racial classification, there were only two racial divisions (Rassen): Caucasians and Mongolians. These terms were used as a collective representation of individuals he personally regarded as either good looking or less attractive, based solely on facial appearance. For example, he considered Germans and Tatars more attractive, and thus Caucasian, while he found Jews, Slavs and Native Americans less attractive, and thus Mongolian.

Ethnolinguistic approach is the best, if you want to use some kind of criterion to make your game run faster (I suffer a lot from same problem :badcomp:

, glad to see that you bring this up!). Basically erase all the Indo-Europeans! :goodjob:

Lone Wolf · Jul 8, 2013

Moscow's Russians call all the people who look a little darker then them but are not clear-cut Oriental in appearance as Caucasians.

That's the joke...

Oregon Lee · Jul 8, 2013

Tigranes said:
Ethnolinguistic approach is the best, if you want to use some kind of criterion to make your game run faster (I suffer a lot from same problem , glad to see that you bring this up!). Basically erase all the Indo-Europeans!

That's what I did, along with Semitics.

Fall of the Caucasians

Royal Tenenbaum

Emperor

King

Emperor

Bofurin

King

Deity

King

Bofurin

Prince

King

Bofurin

Deus Caritas Est

Bofurin

King

Royal Tenenbaum

Bofurin

Armenian

Deity

Royal Tenenbaum

Similar threads