Version 1.12 Objectives

Leoreth

Bofurin
Retired Moderator
Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
37,846
Location
風鈴高等学校
Okay, the release of 1.11 is imminent, so I want to quickly outline what 1.12 will be about so everyone is on the same page and we won't see so many suggestions tackling elements that will be obsolete soon anyway. We can talk about the specific aspects in more detail until I start working on them. In rough order of priority:

1. Removal of the mercenary system
The current implementation of the mercenary system is immensely time and memory consuming and often doesn't really make sense in my opinion. I also think that it's mostly unnecessary in this mod, so it will go with no special mechanic to replace it. Instead there will be an early civic that allows to rush buy units with gold, which I think is a sufficient approximation of both the historical role of mercenaries, serves the same gameplay purpose (get an army while production poor but commerce rich) and is much more elegant because it uses already established core game mechanics.

2. Civic redesign
I know that I've done this so often already that this time is probably annoying, but I feel it's necessary. Too many things do not make sense and in many cases the choice is too easy, so I'll attempt a more balanced selection of civics. Another thing is that the expansion column will be removed (see point 3) and replaced by a new column, and I also have to get in the mercenary civic mentioned above somewhere :mischief:

3. Stability redesign
This is probably going to be the big change of this version. People told me about the way srpt changed things in RFCCW and I really liked it. In short, periodic stability calculations and checks for collapse will be removed. Instead of an integer value for your stability you only have a stability level (collapsing, unstable, shaky, stable, solid). Effects from bad stability will be more gradual and not only involve complete collapse. The direct effects depend on your stability level and the category in which your stability is worst (expansion, economy, diplomacy, domestic, military) and can range from secession of a city, deserting military units, destroyed economic buildings, some turns of anarchy, forced change of civics, respawn of a civ on your territory, collapse to core to complete collapses. As you can see, this is a huge thing and will require lots of testing, which is why I finished the last version as soon as I could to do this at the beginning of the next one. The goal is to get rid of all the nonsensical stuff in the current system, cut down the required time per turn by a significant amount and hopefully provide a greater variety of consequences that reflect the actual sources of your instability.

4. Event cleanup
I will work through the whole event defines file to get rid of undesired ones (barb events) and redo others that have become obsolete by other previous changes. This especially includes the civic-related events. If I have the time and good ideas (there will be a thread to suggest stuff) I might even create some new ones.

5. Trade mechanics
I think currently city size and culture doesn't have enough of an effect on the yield of trade routes (small underdeveloped cities are often too good at trade). I have no concrete ideas what to change, but it's something I want to address.

6. Congresses, Apostolic Palaces and the UN
Congresses are another thing that's likely to receive a complete rewrite simply so that I understand exactly what it's doing. I also hope to reduce the excessive amount of time that Congress turns take. Also, I think Congresses should be changed in purpose to reflect post-war congresses (like the Congress of Vienna) or colonial congresses (like the Berlin Conference) better instead of just the current "try to grab random cities" game. Maybe I can also induce more late game colonialism in Africa this way.

The AP and UN need a rebalance and should become more interesting. Most obvious is the "Never!" reaction which is happening way too often and prevents them from having any effect at all.

7. AI wars changes
Currently the AI wars module simply starts semi-randomized wars from time to time, even though it's possible to assign war plans to the AIs to allow them to build up before instead. I'd like to experiment with that because this could possibly make the AI much more effective.

8. Add BUG mod
Adding K-Mod was a failure but that was mostly because of the AI changes. DoC with BUG mod looked amazingly good, so I still want to make that happen.

That's it so far. As you can see, it's a lot. Also, it's 0% content and "new stuff", and instead lots of game design and mechanic improvements. I feel the mod really needs it after several rounds of adding mostly shiny new features while certain core mechanics still have the dust of base RFC on them.

Nothing here is definite of course, especially the order. I also might move some of this stuff into the following versions depending on the time it takes.
 
Me too. I want to start implementing the new stability mechanics already.
 
Can you also relook at national wonders? They don't scale to smaller nations that never get 8 cities.
 
As for trade, one way you could make small cities less significant would be to cap the number of trade routes a city can have at 1/3 or 1/4 of its population. That way, a size 1-3/4 city could never have more than one trade route (even with TGL, Corporation, Free Market, etc.), while larger cities could have just as many trade connections as they do now.
 
So the best thing to do right now is get 1.11 out as quickly as possible?

Perhaps for 1.12 (and right now) you need to put a complete hold on new features other than the above ones, otherwise it will be about two years until 1.12 is released.
 
Does this mean that I can't recruit Phoenician War Elephants as Tibet anymore? O tempora, etc. :(

In all seriousness, I'm already jonesin' for the next version. Here's a motley bunch of ideas: how about low stability causing one-turn revolts in your cities, with the chance increasing proportionally with the distance from the capital?

The earliest Economy civic could possibly serve as the Mercenary civic, since anything else isn't even available until you research Banking. I reckon those »dummy« civics to be wasted slots — even the most primitive stuff should have some impact, just as Paganism doesn't allow a state religion.

On trade routes: perhaps bigger cities should be able to maintain progressively longer trade routes. Say, a size 12 city could have trade routes to cities 15 tiles away, whereas a size 5 city could only trade with cities 4 tiles away. What do you think?

Defying the Apostolic Palace resolutions (»Never!«) should result in excommunication, which could be represented as a stability hit, no happiness from religious buildings, additional unhappiness, a diplomatic penalty vis-a-vis all the other AP members, or possibly all of these effects at once.

In any event, your work is like this: :king: and I'm like this: :goodjob:
 
What specific civics are you looking at for redesign?
 
Durban(on gold) needs to be nerfed. it's ridiculous to see Durban in medieval(it's easy for player to research compass immediately to pass the capes). Maybe some resources like gold, gem, iron and cow should spawn later.

You need more than Compass to pass the Capes. At least Optics, and Astronomy to do it with a Settler.
 
What do you think of adding another digit to culture tile, etc?
It's kinda weird when you hover a tile and you saw like 99% Roman, 0% Barbarian..
I think it'll be better if it's something like 99,1% Roman and 0.9% Barbarian.
 
3. Stability redesign
This is probably going to be the big change of this version. People told me about the way srpt changed things in RFCCW and I really liked it.

sprt is one of the coolest people I met on this forums ... but he made stability largely irrelevant. One can play 100-200 turns without pressing F2, one almost never has to worry that such a jewel even exists.
I simply ask you to play 1 full game yourself from the beginning to the end (pick Byzantines, for example) -- and you would not need to rely on what people are saying. Feel it for yourself, unlike some modders you play for fun sometimes, so just try it before you change anything, please.

Thousands of fans played so many games with stability, it was tested and retested for the last 8 years, and for the most part it really worked on all accounts, even being as cumbersome as it is. "Worked" as in -- it made people to keep an eye on their stability numbers. Stability in RFCCW remains as a hommage to Rhye but stopped being an integral part of the game. Last time I loaded Tang start -- Kushan empire was stretching from Austria to Mongolia :suicide::suicide:

No. Please, no.
 
You need more than Compass to pass the Capes. At least Optics, and Astronomy to do it with a Settler.

Can't you just set the Settler down in the Cape Town area and have him walk over to Durban?
 
No. Please, no.

Leoreth's main objective is to simplify that stability mechanism which is unnecessarily complicated and very time-taking for each turn. Moreover, your fear would not be in v1.12, there are too many beta testers here that will offer solutions etc should Empire of Maya stretch from Alaska to Chile or Chola stretch from Spain to Japan in the SVN after the v 1.11.. :king:
 
Can't you just set the Settler down in the Cape Town area and have him walk over to Durban?

No, with the new capes you would be dropping one off in Morocco and walk him over to Durban, avoiding all barbs and natives with whatever unfortified unit you have accompanying it, which for England is a longbowman, no match for two impi.
 
Can't you just set the Settler down in the Cape Town area and have him walk over to Durban?

This used to be possible when the cape that prevented circumnavigation of South Africa was at the Cape Town tile.

But Leoreth recently added similar cape tiles either side of the Canary Islands, to encourage the settling of Tenerife in order to allow further access to western and southern Africa.

EDIT: I personally think the Canary Islands need to be improved with resources before I would ever think of settling them.
 
Leoreth's main objective is to simplify that stability mechanism

Simplify sometimes means to replace iPhone with rotary phone. Hey, they both called phones!

Simplify for economy check means this: some major change in game triggers check. Economy check concerns with 1 thing only: do you still bleed Gold with 100% Gold slider?
No resources traded, no growth requirements, no need for progress and other silly checks -- if you don't bleed gold you pass.

If this means simplify -- no. Optimise, make a smarter code, reduce redundancies, shoot two birds with one stone -- yes.

If one's head hurts -- hiliotine can cure it in a simple and permanent way. But for some reason most people prefer to go through the complexities of modern pharmacology.
 
sprt is one of the coolest people I met on this forums ... but he made stability largely irrelevant. One can play 100-200 turns without pressing F2, one almost never has to worry that such a jewel even exists.
I simply ask you to play 1 full game yourself from the beginning to the end (pick Byzantines, for example) -- and you would not need to rely on what people are saying. Feel it for yourself, unlike some modders you play for fun sometimes, so just try it before you change anything, please.

Leoreth's main objective is to simplify that stability mechanism which is unnecessarily complicated and very time-taking for each turn.

I'm prepared to wait-and-see on this one at the moment, but I do understand Tigranes's concerns. I have faith that Leoreth won't be looking to "dumb down" stability to the point that it no longer presents a challenge for the human player.

Stability is one of the main things that makes RFC and its related mods so much more interesting than vanilla BTS. That interest is maintained because the unstable world which Rhye built can actually be quite a challenge to manage.
 
Stability is one of the main things that makes RFC and its related mods so much more interesting than vanilla BTS. That interest is maintained because the unstable world which Rhye built can actually be quite a challenge to manage...

... and still make possible for human player like you to achieve numerous conquest/domination victories ;)
 
Back
Top Bottom