Can someone explain the mechanics of ideologies?

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Carl5872

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So I feel I have a very basic, high-level, understanding of how the ideology penalties work, but if someone could walk me though it using some numbers, I feel it would really benefit the Civ community as a whole, and most importantly, me. :mischief:

As I currently understand it, If I adopted Freedom, and Civ A adopts Order then it triggers a situation where one of us is going to get an anger penalty. This is determined by looking at:
1. My culture vs. his tourism against me
2. His culture vs my tourism against him

The differences are then found and netted, and the one with a bigger influence against the other will inflict an anger penalty against the weaker one. Where it gets fuzzy for me is how exactly these are determined, for example how big a difference is needed for each 1 unhappiness inflicted on the culturally weaker civ?

Also to further delve into this issue, how is tourism versus another civ calculated. So for example say I have 3 works of art in my palace/wonders generating 6 tourism per turn with no modifying buildings or policies. Does this mean I will have a tourism rating of 6 against each other civ, or will some have less or more than others.

Thanks in advance!
 
Carl5872 said:
Also to further delve into this issue, how is tourism versus another civ calculated. So for example say I have 3 works of art in my palace/wonders generating 6 tourism per turn with no modifying buildings or policies. Does this mean I will have a tourism rating of 6 against each other civ, or will some have less or more than others.

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Tourism works a lot like culture. It is accumulated over time as a total counter. If your tourism is +8, that means your "BASE" tourism is 8 per turn. (So after 10 turns you will have 80 total tourism). The base tourism is modified by several modifiers with each civ. Open borders for example has a 25% modifier. So if you have open boarders with Civ A but not with Civ B. You will generate 10 tourism with Civ A per turn and 8 tourism with Civ B. (So after 10 turns you will have 100 tourism with Civ A and 80 tourism with Civ B). Its a running total (just like culture is).

Your influence level is determined by the total amount of tourism over the course of the entire game compared to the total culture generated over the entire game of the other Civ. If you have generated 1000 total tourism to Civ A and Civ A has generated 10000 total culture then your influence is 10% (and thus at the exotic level). This is seperate for every civ since each civ has different tourism amounts you've put into them (due to modifiers) and they have generated different amounts of total culture.

The unhappiness from different ideologies uses the 6 influence levels of culture. Points are awarded as follows

Unknown (0% - 10%) = 0 Points
Exotic (10% - 30%) = 1 Point
Familiar (30% - 60%) = 2 Points
Popular (60% - 100%) = 3 Points
Influential (100% - 200%) = 4 Points
Dominating (200%+) = 5 Points.

To find ideological pressure, you take your influence level and compare it to theirs. If they are Familiar and You are Exotic, they will influence 1 point of ideological pressure on you. Also If I recall, if the world congress has voted on a world ideology, that ideology generates an additional 2 points of pressure.

As for how much for each level of pressure (Content, Dissidents, Civil Resistance, and Revolutionary Wave), I'm not certain how much pressure points it takes from different ideologies.

Basically what it boils down to is that if you even dont plan on playing towards a culture game, you can't just ignore tourism completely. It doesn't take much to get to exotic with every civ in the game and lowering ideological pressure by 1. Your only other option to avoid the happiness penalty is to just not take an ideology at all or swap to the world ideology.
 
Dragonmaster83 said:
Tourism works a lot like culture. It is accumulated over time as a total counter. If your tourism is +8, that means your "BASE" tourism is 8 per turn. (So after 10 turns you will have 80 total tourism). The base tourism is modified by several modifiers with each civ. Open borders for example has a 25% modifier. So if you have open boarders with Civ A but not with Civ B. You will generate 10 tourism with Civ A per turn and 8 tourism with Civ B. (So after 10 turns you will have 100 tourism with Civ A and 80 tourism with Civ B). Its a running total (just like culture is).

Your influence level is determined by the total amount of tourism over the course of the entire game compared to the total culture generated over the entire game of the other Civ. If you have generated 1000 total tourism to Civ A and Civ A has generated 10000 total culture then your influence is 10% (and thus at the exotic level). This is seperate for every civ since each civ has different tourism amounts you've put into them (due to modifiers) and they have generated different amounts of total culture.

The unhappiness from different ideologies uses the 6 influence levels of culture. Points are awarded as follows

Unknown (0% - 10%) = 0 Points
Exotic (10% - 30%) = 1 Point
Familiar (30% - 60%) = 2 Points
Popular (60% - 100%) = 3 Points
Influential (100% - 200%) = 4 Points
Dominating (200%+) = 5 Points.

To find ideological pressure, you take your influence level and compare it to theirs. If they are Familiar and You are Exotic, they will influence 1 point of ideological pressure on you. Also If I recall, if the world congress has voted on a world ideology, that ideology generates an additional 2 points of pressure.

As for how much for each level of pressure (Content, Dissidents, Civil Resistance, and Revolutionary Wave), I'm not certain how much pressure points it takes from different ideologies.

Basically what it boils down to is that if you even dont plan on playing towards a culture game, you can't just ignore tourism completely. It doesn't take much to get to exotic with every civ in the game and lowering ideological pressure by 1. Your only other option to avoid the happiness penalty is to just not take an ideology at all or swap to the world ideology.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot Dragonmaster83! This really cleared it up for me. Now I actually understand why I am losing 17 happiness from other ideologies. While its good to know that both culture and tourism must be built up, its even better to know the math behind it.
Thanks again, Im sure Im not the only one who will benefit from this!
 
Carl5872 said:
Thanks a lot Dragonmaster83! This really cleared it up for me. Now I actually understand why I am losing 17 happiness from other ideologies. While its good to know that both culture and tourism must be built up, its even better to know the math behind it.
Thanks again, Im sure Im not the only one who will benefit from this!
Click to expand...

Ya Culture is strictly a defensive measure towards ideological pressure. The more of it you have, the more an opposing Civ needs tourism to influence you and put ideological pressure on you.

Tourism is for the most part offensive. The more of it you have the higher your influence is with other civs and the more pressure you put on them with your ideology. But it does have some defense ability to as if you can reach the influence levels of at least Exotic and Familiar you will be well protected from ideological pressure from the culture victory civs.
 
Ok now when Im in the tourism screen and it says each civ's name and then the levels (familiar, influential, etc.) is that my level on them or their level on me?
 
To win cultural, you basically have to build more total tourism points than the highest civ builds culture points and they seem to mostly come at the end.

In my current game, I have to beat the Shoshone's 80,000. I'm not sure if that is a lot or not.
 
Carl5872 said:
Ok now when Im in the tourism screen and it says each civ's name and then the levels (familiar, influential, etc.) is that my level on them or their level on me?
Click to expand...

The last tab is what you want (one with the graph charts). Theres a box in the top left that has a civ on it. Thats the civ that's the tourism output is shown (generally your civ name). The other civs are listed in the chart below it. Thats your Influence to each civ.

So say your were india and you wanted to compare your influence to AI Germany and AI Greece. You would have your Civ in the box and Germany and Greece will each have a chart with influence level. If say it showed Germany at Exotic and Greece at Popular thats your influence to them.
Now if you swapped the CIV in the box to say Germany, then both your Civ (India) and the other AI (Greece) will be listed in the graph. If it says for influence Exotic for you and Unknown for Greece thats Germany's Influence levels.
If you select Greece then Germany and You will be shown and lets say both are Familiar. Thats Greeces influence levels.

So we have the following

You Compared to Germany - Exotic (You) - Exotic (Germany) = Equal Pressure
You Compared to Greece - Popluar (You) - Familiar (Greece) = You influence 1 point of pressure on Greece.
Germany Compared to Greece - Unknown (Germany) - Familiar (Greece) = Greece influences 2 points of pressure on Germany.
 
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