Idea for redone Japan

MantaRevan

MantaRevan

Emperor
Joined
Oct 9, 2011
Messages
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So I think I've come up with an idea that functions as both fun for the player when they play as Japan, as well as making them a formidable AI.
UA: Sakoku
+20% Empire wide :c5culture: when no foreign trade routes are active. +2 :c5gold: per internal trade route and internal trade routes are more efficient(e.g. Japan gets one extra :c5production: from production trade routes and one extra :c5food: from food trade routes.

This helps simulate the isolationist history of japan and the unique direction that it grew in during the Edo period.
Sakoku gives incentive for Japan to focus on it's internal trade routes and gives it bonuses for playing an isolationist game. The :c5culture: boost also allows Japan to play a cultural game, something that the developers have been aimed at.
I'm not going to propose changes to Japan's UU slots, because while I think that they are both a little weak, the Samurai is too iconic for Firaxis to consider changing.
This is just my idea for the changes to Japan that would make a decent civ. Hopefully someone at Firaxis will see it. Give me your feedback and alternate suggestions for Japan in particular.
 
While that unique ability sounds good, couldn't an AI just set up a trade route to one of your cities and then boom that bonus is gone?
 
I dislike this. I don't really feel it would play well. Further, I actually like Bushido, but think it could just use a little boost, perhaps culture related.

To elaborate, all this UA would do is give you tons of free culture in the beginning of the game when you don't have a trade route, and by the early mid game you'd just be an insane machine of infrastructure. Your cities would grow insanely fast, which doesn't really reflect Japan's heritage.
 
mistermoo33 said:
I dislike this. I don't really feel it would play well. Further, I actually like Bushido, but think it could just use a little boost, perhaps culture related.

To elaborate, all this UA would do is give you tons of free culture in the beginning of the game when you don't have a trade route, and by the early mid game you'd just be an insane machine of infrastructure. Your cities would grow insanely fast, which doesn't really reflect Japan's heritage.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure of the UA suggestion myself*, but if it was changed Bushido could be moved to the Samurai.

*(Though it is interesting.)
 
DerCivMeister said:
While that unique ability sounds good, couldn't an AI just set up a trade route to one of your cities and then boom that bonus is gone?
Click to expand...

No. It would only apply to japanese trade routes for gameplay's sake. Anyone could make trade routes to you. Or we could also just force the isolation and make it so that Japan basically functions like an embargoed civ. I'm open to constructive criticism for this BTW.
 
Viregel said:
Or you could get Bushido as a promotion from the Dojo. That way, most units get the promotion, but it's no the only thing it has to offer.
Click to expand...

Bushido makes more sense as a promotion I think. Not every Japanese soldier followed that philosophy, only the members of the elite warrior class actually practiced bushido. Making it a promotion more accurately reflects Bushido as a concept.
 
The Dojo as UB sounds good, +1 culture per garisson and gives Bushido as an unique promotion to land units.
As for the UA, I think the Idea suggedted is okay, but remove the 20% culture as that is pretty op. Maybe +2 culture along with the +2 gold for internal trade routes?
 
Bushido and samurai are fine, the zero is almost useless. It could be replaced by a unique building, like an electronic factory? or an industrial-era building replacement, to reflect the Meji period?
 
As much as I like the Bushido UA, I think it makes more sense as a promotion rather than an entire UA. This is particularly so if we're going to focus on more noteworthy aspects of Japan as a nation and also if we intend to diversify the playable aspects of this civ. As it stands now, the Japanese civ is only good for fighting and don't get much flexibility anywhere else. I'd also agree that the Sakoku policy would suit Japan much better thematically as their UA.

I had pondered about this myself and figured it may have something to do with internal trade routes, so I agree with the suggestion. If I recall correctly, the Japanese kept trade routes with other nations even while they practiced the Sakoku policy, although trade between them and other nations was still quite restricted. The change of their UA to something more suitable or flexible for this civ is favorable and moving Bushido into a promotion can probably work a couple of ways:

  • A unique promotion granted to Samurai units. They keep this promotion upon upgrading into another unit.
  • A promotion obtained through building a unit in a city with a new UB. I'd elect a Japanese castle, a shiro, as the replacement to the Zero. The UB would offer everything a normal castle does with the bonus of granting every land unit built in that city the Bushido promotion.

    Castles are acquired at chivalry, which would fit similarly with the Bushido ideology. Samurai are not too far off either, depending on how you've teched. It would keep Japan as a formidable medieval fighting force when you put them together.

Getting the AI to realize its strengths will be the most challenging aspect, I think.
 
It may be a bit bland, but would it make sense to give Japan a Dojo replacing the Barracks with some :c5culture: yield?

Maybe even something a bit crazier, like :c5culture: for every military building.

On the full insanity end, they could get a better Giant Death Robot UU.
 
Galgus said:
It may be a bit bland, but would it make sense to give Japan a Dojo replacing the Barracks with some :c5culture: yield?

Maybe even something a bit crazier, like :c5culture: for every military building.

On the full insanity end, they could get a better Giant Death Robot UU.
Click to expand...

:lol:

Daimon, replaces Giant Death Robot. Ignores Terrain Cost and is able to perform a ranged attack before engaging in melee. Also can fly to Mars, because Japan.
 
I think something to do with Great Generals would be good for Japan. "General's Bodyguard - Can pay gold to upgrade Great Generals into current era melee unit with increased strength and retains the Great General Bonus" or "Warlord's Castle/Encampment - Citadels can be placed anywhere. Citadels grant the Great General bonus in an increased area. (Citadels not connected to friendly territory don't convert territory)"
 
Actually I love this idea as this gives us a whole new way to play the game which is exactly what we need.

So:

UA: Sakoku
+20% Empire wide :c5culture: when no foreign trade routes are active. +2 :c5gold: per internal trade route and internal trade routes are more efficient(e.g. Japan gets one extra :c5production: from trade routes and one extra :c5food: from trade routes.
UU: Samurai
Current perks in addition to the new Bushido perk. Which makes them fight as thought they were at full strenght even when damaged.
UB: Dojo
Replaces Barracks. +15 experience for all units trained in this city. Gives +1 Exp and +1 :c5culture: for each unit garrisoned in a city with a dojo.

I think the above would make this faction interesting and unique to play which is what should be aimed for. Also perhaps there should be a option for factions to embargo others without first having to declare war to do it.

Do the Civ5 developpers actually read these forums so there is a chance of getting these suggestions implemented?
 
Phalanx300 said:
Actually I love this idea as this gives us a whole new way to play the game which is exactly what we need.

So:

UA: Sakoku
+20% Empire wide :c5culture: when no foreign trade routes are active. +2 :c5gold: per internal trade route and internal trade routes are more efficient(e.g. Japan gets one extra :c5production: from trade routes and one extra :c5food: from trade routes.
UU: Samurai
Current perks in addition to the new Bushido perk. Which makes them fight as thought they were at full strenght even when damaged.
UB: Dojo
Replaces Barracks. +15 experience for all units trained in this city. Gives +1 Exp and +1 :c5culture: for each unit garrisoned in a city with a dojo.

I think the above would make this faction interesting and unique to play which is what should be aimed for. Also perhaps there should be a option for factions to embargo others without first having to declare war to do it.

Do the Civ5 developpers actually read these forums so there is a chance of getting these suggestions implemented?
Click to expand...

They do from time to time, but I really don't know how much or how often. Dshirk has an account from what I know.
 
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