Nobles' Club CXXVII: Catherine of Russia

dalamb

dalamb

Deity
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
3,161
Location
Kingston, Ontario
The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Catherine of Russia, whom we last played in NC XCIX; we last played the Russians under Peter in NC CVIII. The Russians start with Hunting and Mining.
Catherine.jpg
  • Traits: Catherine is Creative and Imperialistic. CRE gives +2:culture:, which means cities expand without needing a cultural building; it also gives faster colosseums, libraries and theatres. IMP means 50% faster productions of settlers, and doubles the rate of Great Generals. The combination means Catherine is good at REXing.
  • The UB: The Research Institute, a Laboratory that gives 2 free scientists, which boost late-game :science: if you're going for a space race (or high-tech late game war).
    ResearchInstitute.jpg

  • The UU: The Cossack, a Cavalry unit that gets +50% versus mounted units. Cavalry are a powerful UU in their time period already, as Horse Archers are in theirs.
    Cossack.jpg
And the start:

Spoiler map details :
Great Plains, 2 extra AI because there's so much land.
Spoiler edits :
Moved us 2E1S to be near some resources.
Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
  • continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)
This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number of stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...
The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 127 Cathy Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Noble. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

Reserved.
Spoiler some comments on the map type :
Great Plains has a lot more land and less water than other types. It's meant to resemble the Great Plains of the United States of America, from the midwest to the Rockies. There is a little bit of the Gulf of Mexico in the southeast corner, so seas are irrelevant to most civilizations.
Spoiler a tech gambit :
Since there's not need for Fishing and Russia doesn't start with it, you might consider the option of bulbing Machinery with a Great Scientist (if I've read the preferences correctly, you self-research, trade for, or Oracle writing, math, wheel, alphabet, iron working, agriculture, masonry, bronze working, aesthetics, and metal casting, plus avoid the prerequisites for philosophy). A second Great Scientist could bulb Engineering after you research Construction.
 
Cool, will be playing this one since I came back from holidays :)!
 
Wow, another borderline HoF type start? Obviously want to keep that wet corn around. Could settle to the west and grab more food-neutral cottage tiles, or stay put and maybe reveal another food tile.

I have a sneaking suspicion there is another food tile out there.

So I would send the scout 2 north and see if its worth moving the settler 1 W. If nothing good up there, SIP and use whatever 2nd food tile there might or might not be out east.
 
Patchface said:
Wow, another borderline HoF type start? Obviously want to keep that wet corn around. Could settle to the west and grab more food-neutral cottage tiles, or stay put and maybe reveal another food tile.

I have a sneaking suspicion there is another food tile out there.

So I would send the scout 2 north and see if its worth moving the settler 1 W. If nothing good up there, SIP and use whatever 2nd food tile there might or might not be out east.
Click to expand...

This map script gets much more difficult a Deity because of the extra land. I would hope the start is good to make this viable for anybody that wants to play Deity, or even Immortal if they don't win consistently at that difficulty.
 
Dalamb, it certainly lessens the chance of one AI out-expanding all the others. But of course it doesn't do anything for a runaway AI via military conquest. Not much you can do about that.

Spoiler :
More AIs on Deity does also favour an early military breakout where possible, all those extra starting settlers on a pangea-like map can mean getting boxed in no matter what.
 
I haven't played Great plains in a while, but I do remember that there's lots of mountains and hills on
both East and West side of the map. So, my guess is that we are in the middle of the map, with
potential foes all around. Let's hope there enough food resources around to spread and grab some
decent territories.

I'll give it a shot next week.
 
i see a riverside forested plains hill and I wanna settle it...even if the the scout move 2NE doesnt reveal anyting imgonna gamble...(emp/huts and events)

edit. unless the hut next to the settler gives me a map...nope ive got my mind set on the PH..ithink,maybe
 
Patchface said:
Wow, another borderline HoF type start? Obviously want to keep that wet corn around. Could settle to the west and grab more food-neutral cottage tiles, or stay put and maybe reveal another food tile.

I have a sneaking suspicion there is another food tile out there.

So I would send the scout 2 north and see if its worth moving the settler 1 W. If nothing good up there, SIP and use whatever 2nd food tile there might or might not be out east.
Click to expand...

I don't know why "single wet corn with no trees and no anything else" screams "borderline HoF start" to you, but believe me this map is no picnic.

Spoiler :

I was shocked to find two neighbors settling two cities (one of them holy) on my borders at 3800 BC; tried to horcher rush one via cottages but failed miserably because they both had metal and 8 cities by the time I finally hit (in 900 BC). =/ am planning to try again, with the goal of peaceful expansion of as much as I can this time around... hopefully I won't get as bad neighbor luck with the holy cities and can get at least a 6 city empire this time.
 
thanks for posting this :P I was getting so bored replaying old games for better scores/dates

I even ended up pulling out my old zeus game and playing a supermario emulator lol :P

Hopefully there is some food/commerce spots around, im not familiar with great plains but it seems like a good map for taking lots of cities, especially with the added ai's
 
imm up to 600bc

Spoiler :
im gonna end up HA rushing, its 600 bc in my game, i have 5 HA's, ill whip another 4-8, and chop out half a dozen + what gets built from hammers and overflow in the next 5-6 turns. I already have 5 or 6 chariots, one of them with sentry from fogbusting, and ramses is an easy target with 5 cities and only one metal, an easy border iron to pillage, i could have gotten ha's a bit quicker but i bulbed math, used it to trade for alphabet/iw/fishing/masonry etc, i still have a monopoly horseback riding, and ill probably avoid aesthetics for awhile because i doubt ill get there first with currency also a priority, and without getting to music first and no marble for tgl its not as useful a tech.

the real issue right now is that, everyone in my game is hindu except roosie. mehmed is undecided, and i cant switch into the majority religion until i take one of ramses cities. He has 2-3 spearmen and the rest are swords/axes/bows, ill end up running him over pretty quickly, im just gonna eliminate him probably. I kept him out of the trade loop, so i dont think he can bribe anyone in, at least not until its over.
 
First time posting in one of these threads so we'll see what happens. Forgive me if the screenshots (or shot in this case) suck [also could not figure out how get it into the spoiler section so it is just attached. Sorry.]
Initial Info and thoughts
Played- Noble with huts and events
Settled in place
Worker- Warrior [after scout was killed by bears] - Settler
BW [1st research], then Agriculture, AH, The Wheel

Spoiler :
Map is very odd - never played Great Plains before so things like plains deer and desert hill cows strike me as strange.



Situation as of turn 68
Spoiler :


By turn 68, I have chariot rushed and removed Egypt [after an initial DoW to steal a worker and pillage the gem mine]. Razed Thebes to move it one north. Not sure if it was worth it- lost the gems, but gained a flood plain and planned to put another city southwest to get gems and cows. Update- certainly not worth it as I thought Thebes was on a flood plain, but it is actually a desert square, so no reason to raze.Just researched Alphabet and backfilled some techs like archery and mysticism. Plan is to take out one or two others with horse archers then consolidate and consider my options [either continuing the war if possible, looking towards conquest or domination, or becoming more friendly and cultured (as Catherine was known for her ‘friendliness’ ) for a cultural or space victory].
 

Attachments

  • Catherine1.jpg
    Catherine1.jpg
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@TGJ

Spoiler :
I went through my opening on Deity and had a bad time, but for different reasons. Did a fairly late HA rush on Egypt with 5 cities, because his only source of metal was pillage-able on the first turn. He bribed the Germans on me, which meant I lost one marginal city which was fine. I was stomping Egypt no problem, then the Ottomans also declared on me and that was the end of that. Not sure if that was a bribe or a spontaneous dagger. Without the Ottoman war dec I'd have gotten up to 10-11 strong cities with a half decent shrine. Oh well.

With the land I was able to grab I could have probably gone for lib with 7 cities, if the world was at war a fair amount that might have been safer.
 
Tall German Joe said:
I don't know why "single wet corn with no trees and no anything else" screams "borderline HoF start" to you, but believe me this map is no picnic.
Click to expand...

I take back the comment. Actually through 1 AD I've really enjoyed this map.

Spoiler :
With forested PH in capital, rivers, and close neighbors blocking barbs, conditions are perfect for a settler opening IMO.
 
UU and UB are nice IMO. Do you think that Cossack rush would be a good idea? Does it really work and do I need support from siege machines then? I like UB too, its not super but it such fits really nicely to my game strategy.
 
Cossacks are a strong unit if you can get them while your target is still at cuirs, which the AI will then spam and you will clean up. The main advantage of mounted warfare precludes siege, but if for example you're going up against an AI with unusually high numbers of defenders or you're having to mass suicide against rifles you might want to use spy revolts to avoid cultural defense.
 
Yeah, I might want to try it. My plan: 1. REX or take down an leader early on. 2. Out tech the AI. 3. Cossack rush. 4. Use the UB in space race.
 
giving up, 425 B.C.

Spoiler :

welp, I guess the peaceful route didn't work this time either, I guess more due to bad luck than anything else though. I have 6 cities and a solid tech rate, a bureau academy cap w/ another scientist on the way to help bulb edu (temporarily ceased the specialists to grow the city a bit), just like what I wanted, but unlike what I wanted I do not have any buddhist cities while every other AI is buddhist. thus, an insane tech pace and an inability to bribe anyone on anyone else. I guess what happened is that Cyrus decided to rush Mansa, the hindu founder, which prevented hinduism from spreading anywhere and precluded Mansa from spamming missionaries. the wangster, on the other hand, managed to land Judaism, Confucianism, and Christianity, and spammed about 10 million missionaries across the world, except to me I guess due to being on the other corner of the map from him. his tech pace is absurd and I'm sure its related to his shrine. on the other side of the spectrum, freddy has become just monstrous somehow, and, even though he's behind in tech now, I'm sure he'll catch up quickly once he gets currency and CoL.

so, although I'm sure I can hit a very respectable date for cuirs, I'd have only a tiny ass window to make use of them, and more likely I'd have 6 AIs eager to peacevassal my intended target as soon as my 10 turn beg treaties expire. thus, I think I'm gonna just give up on this map. it was very interesting though, so kudos to dalamb for setting it up.

Spoiler :
ig4p4L1.jpg

stupid ramses spoiled the pigs by settling two close cities to them :(

IPTxDLD.png

 
First time I've ever done these, see how it goes. I usually play on Noble/Prince, but I'm challenging myself with Monarch.
Starting off: I SIP'd. Could of moved but I wasn't swayed either way.
Played to T50/2000BC

Spoiler :

Capital:
Spoiler :
2z3utu9.jpg

Tech Path - Agri -> Wheel -> Pottery -> BW -> AH -> Writing
Build Path - Worker -> Warriorx4 (2 explore - 1 for cap - 1 for 2nd city) -> Settler -> Worker -> Worker (prep for cottage spam for 'REX')
See Memhed merely 4 turns in!
Spoiler :
sbt3c1.jpg

See Rammy quickly also!
Spoiler :
14tsn7m.jpg

1# threat to scouts; Bears...
Spoiler :
63u32x.jpg

Combat results; Flawless Failure :lol:
11awin4.jpg

We see Freddy (his just-founded 2nd city) in T39. (FRAPS didn't want a screenie of Freddy for some reason)
I found St. Petersburg near Rammy, and the new borders finds a settler pair coming from Thebes.
Spoiler :
2dsljqc.jpg

Horses are in our borders, no copper near though. Iron later?
Spoiler :
mjwtmx.jpg

Intended to revolt to Slavery when settler was moving, but forgot, revolted on T45. :rolleyes: :smoke:
Mansa is seen on T49.
Spoiler :
2wdtt7k.jpg

T50 sees me 1 turn away from writing, and close to hooking up horses. Glad too, already seen Archers prowling round, and had a scout and a warrior both killed during exploring. Need chariots to explore without immediately getting killed :/ Will use OB to see if Rammy or Mehmed has copper/iron themselves, if no strategic resources, could hopefully overcome problems with archers with superior numbers.
Also see how little I've explored :crazyeye: and ignore my dotmap, looked at it for 5 seconds and realized it's really bad atm. :lol:
2ag59x5.jpg
 
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