TSG68 Opening Actions thread

Welcome to the TSG68 Opening Actions thread. This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. There are no posting restrictions as such (apart from normal decency), although we encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- Were there any early wars and who started them?
- How did you use your UU?
- Was your UB helpful?
- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?

This is my third GOtM, and I am not getting better at it



I went for the GL->NC build order, and thus gimped my early growth a bit.

I decided to neglect the strict polices-optimization, and just pick the best of every world (honor), foolhardily expecting a quick win



As usual, I got myself into a terrible start. No matter, in four turn's time I get my Impis. That should wipe the smiles of their Shoshone faces

First time GOTM because I usually suffer from CASD (Compulsive Auto Save Disorder).

I settled in place because I wasn't sure what type of map it was and there was enough food around the start location. At turn 96 I have 4 small cities that are boxing in the Shoshone and I have almost met all the other AIs.

My initial priority was scouting and a settler after I found the Shoshone because they have boxed me in on more than one occasion with their gigantic initial settled city tiles. And of course, archers. 4 city National College at turn 93.

Techs were mining > pottery > archery. I then decided to get bronze working, philosophy, optics, construction and finally go for the notorious Zulu Impis. (still researching).



I haven't got to Impis yet, I have 6 archers, 2 spearmen, 1 warrior and 2 triremes. I was able to build Stonehenge and found a religion (Nkulunkuluism lol). I used liberty finisher for a great engineer but Shoshone beat me to popping him for Terracotta Army by 1 turn because of my late construction tech so I build a manufactory outside my capital instead (lame). I haven't built this wonder yet in BNW so it really would have been something to see my army double.



All in all I would say the world is really going to get a hurt from the Zulu this game.

Turn 96 screenshot attached.



Editted for spoilers.

SYahoo said:

First time GOTM because I usually suffer from CASD (Compulsive Auto Save Disorder).

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Welcome to GOTM!

Best of luck in your game.

Well, i don't play domination a lot as i tend to overbuild my cities and underbuild military. In addition, i'm more a Tradition player and this start just does not seem right for Trad ... Still had to try Shaka after he handed me my Assyrian a.. on a plate in a recent game so i thought i would give it a try.

leif erikson said:

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?

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My consideration was "oh crap, where do i plant this thing. If not for a GOTM, i would have rerolled the map. Flatlands with no river on sight. Nothing in the see for later. Well, i settled on place cause i couldn't see anything better close by.

- What were your initial priorities?

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Get my Ikandas working and start producing spearmen for future upgrade to Impis while forward settling near Pocatello (so i went Liberty), then get some research and move to Civil Service. Game started slowly cause of no ruins so i don't really know how fast i've been. Only settled 2 more cities beside Cap cause there just wasn't anything great nearby and more would just have slowed NC, then forgot to plant another one while i was preparing for war
As my science wasn't really great, i planted the GS i poped from Liberty finisher to speed up Civil Service. Was quite useful.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

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Roughly, Bronze Working - Philosophy (for NC) - Civil Service
Impis are right there in a (usually) very useful tech, so nothing but very common techs.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?

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I DoWed Pocatello the turn after i upgraded to Impis. Had 2 catapults ready by that time to help take out cities. No archer yet, only Impis to rule the fields and cat for cities.

- How did you use your UU?

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Offensively they are really great.

- Was your UB helpful?

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Sure, a 3 move Impi makes quite a difference compared to a 2 move one, especially when your immediate neighbour is that annoying

- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?

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No impis in G&K

Well, i have to add i totally don't know how this will end. it took me way more time than planned to take Moson Kahni, but at least now i won't have to worry about that thing again. Hope i can follow faster for other conquests.

Settled to the east of the granary enhanced resources and another city later to the south. Then took 2 cities from Pocahontas but left him his capital (for now) as it was on a hill with walls and a comp bow inside. He does have the Colossus and Stonehenge there and I guess it's gonna be some more wonders until I'll take it (he was the first to enter the Medieval Era).

I'm glad I did not attempt to build the GL as it was gone by T50. Built two Libraries and an Ikanda in the capital but no NC. I did however try the Statue of Zeus but failed at it by 3 turns to an unknown civ.
Not sure at the moment if all civs can be met without ships/embarking as I haven't met 3 civs yet.

Currently on T101 with 7 turns until Civil Service and my Spearmen army is ready to upgrade itself and crush Poland from where on I'll probably split the army 50:50 marching east and west to cleanse the world. Pocahontas shall receive his treat by some new built units from my capital sooner or later.

T108: 11 Impi, 2 Warriors, 1 Catapult, 2 GGs. Got Pantheon just now, choose God of the Open Sky (+1c from pastures) - unfortunately I found out that size 2 cities only get 1 follower; thus they won't get the pantheon (any time soon).

Interesting GOTM. Not much of a bad boy, and so I really never play domination, but this will be fun and interesting.
What a flat land. Like above, settled in place cuz warrior didnt reveal anything other than flat land. No water and no sea resources. Since spawn is at coast and didnt know the map I was not comfortable to be left without a city being able to make ships. So settled in place.
Since ruins are off, I opened tradition, then I had a barb camp to the north, so second I picked honor to milk that for culture, then left side Liberty and will now complete the liberty tree I guess. Golden age and free GP is too good to pass up on.
Tech order: Potery, archer, AH, bronze working, calender, writing, trapping, beeline philosopy, then beeline civil service.
BO: monument, started worker, switched to archer, archer, archer, archer, finish worker, granary, and then mix of archer, settler, cargo/caravan and two failed attempts at wonders (stonehenge by 3 turns and statue of zeus by 2 turns.)
As soon as the Shoeshone worker I dowed him, kept taking his workers and settlers, killed of his units and he managed only to make one more city to north which I accepted in peace deal. Have made 4 cities, one south, one east at mountainrange and one south of Shoeshone cap. I basically prevented him from exping by covering all his exits with archers and warrior.
Have Dowed the Shoeshone again and will attack when bows are upgraded and 2 imps are ready. He has great wall and its quite well defended cap.
3 religions are gone, thinking wether to spend my GP from liberty on religion or a GE for a wonder or boost science.
Science has been slow, turn 100 and still far behind, NC will be slow, turn 115 I guess, and then towards edu..

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?

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I settled in place, as I don't think there is a better spot within 1-2 turns of settler movement

- What were your initial priorities?

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I went for a unusal 1 settler built because of no huts and I wasn't quite sure that this was pangea in the first place. So I went for shrine + wine/incense pantheon to get a religion. I the went exploring the whole continent, which took a awful lot of time because of only one scout, and unfortunately did not find any religious CS in time. I stole one worker from the Shoshone and one from a CS, went tradition and only founded one additional city to the south, because of the Shoshone locking me off the rest of the continent. I had NC up by about turn 70.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

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Pottery->Mining->Writing->Calender->Archery->Philosophy

Capital is bad for wonder production, so I did not gamble for GL into Philosophy. After NC was up i was able to get Hanging Gardens by Turn 90.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?

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I DoWed the Shoshone once to steal a worker and we settled even a few turns later

- How did you use your UU?
- Was your UB helpful?

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It's now turn 100, and I think it will take another 10 turns to start the killing spree with special promoted Impis and CBs.

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?

I wanted it to be coastal to provide best opportunities for trade and to allow for ship building in case a navy becomes mandatory. I didn't see any obvious reason to move, so settled in place. Food is a bit light, but there are some granary resources. It turned out to be better than expected with two horses, a cow, and iron in range.

- What were your initial priorities?

Granary up in the capital (2 granary resources), finding a few city states, getting to bronzeworking, building the unique barracks, and building a few spears and the statue of zeus.

I did not build any additional warriors or scouts. My initial warrior went on a fairly long scouting tour before coming back so it was quite a relief from barbs when the UB-enhanced spear got trained.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Pottery, then direct to bronze working. Then to writing, calendar for the luxes, and then beeline mathematics (needed to buy a catapult when 3 UB-promoted spears just weren't good enough to take te-moak) and currency. I did trapping and philosophy after that in some order and then onward to civil service.

Probably this path delayed the national college too long. But the early math rush also allowed building the Hanging Gardens in the capital.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?

Yes. The shoshone settled te-moak in a decent-enough position so I used some spears with a great general from honor to try to take it. I started the war a little early when a worker was in a good position for nabbing, but they rush-bought walls. Ultimately I had to back off, heal up, and bring in a catapult.

I pushed toward their capital but it was 26 defense and they had a composite bow, so I settled for a bit of gold and started teching towards impis.

Before getting there, Assyria asked me to go to war with Poland. Poland isn't near enough to be a threat to me, and it's usually a good thing when evenly-matched AI waste resources fighting each other, so I asked for an immediate start. I had almost forgotten about that war while taking Shoshone capital when Poland surprised me with a peace deal offering Krakow! Sure thing!

- How did you use your UU?

I waited for the upgrades before moving in on the Shoshone capital. With the UB upgrades they positively wreck composite bows caught out and also were able to get some good hits in against the city. The UB promotions give ranged defense so they can soak up quite a few city hits especially if one is a medic.

- Was your UB helpful?

Yes, you start with the first unique promotion and get to immediately pick a second promotion. The extra movement is probably my favorite part of the unique path, but the ranged defense is really handy against cities too.

- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?

Mostly gold-poorer AI's mean taking non-perfect trade deals for excess luxuries. I have enough friendships but the AI like to go negative gpt and not really keep a big balance in the early game so it is hard to get full value.

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?
I moved my warrior to clear some fog to the NE, didn't like any of spots to settle, so gambled and moved my settler down the coast to the SW. On turn 2, I ended up on a hill next to cows. It put all the luxuries 4 tiles away, but I figure domination, and expansion, I'll get the luxuries soon enough.

- What were your initial priorities?
Was going liberty, scout monument scout in order to see the world. Initial plan was build some archers, then pyramids and then a couple settlers and get 2-3 more cities down. That had to be changed when my near neighbor was shoshone and he started claiming huge chunks of my expansion land. I placed my 2nd city on the southern coast on the river near the gems.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Tech plan was pottery, archery, AH, and then masonry and BW. Wanted to start making shooters, and get the pyramids.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?
Yeah, I stole 2 workers from city states, and started a war with shoshone as soon as I had my 3 man archer team. The just got exp on his troops for a while.

- How did you use your UU?
Haven't gotten that tech yet.

- Was your UB helpful?
Just now starting to build troops with that.

- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?
Never played domination in G&K. So this is all new to me.

Every plan changes as soon as you meet the enemy, and I've certainly had to adjust things. The real issue I ended up having is that I never managed to meet enough people. My scouts got trapped in mountain passes or on peninsulas by barbarians, so they just never made it through to meet everyone else. The second problem is i've had continuous major money problems so far. The city I was attacking near didn't have any improvements to pillage. I had 1 2g caravan with a city state, and I only had 1 luxury to sell. The fighting was going fine, but my science was going backward. So I've managed to put myself behind a bit. It should be salvagable, but I need to go to war again in a better location and start making some money.

I took a pretty standard Tradition path with 4 cities. I moved my settler one SE as the coast didn't attract me for what I'm guessing is going to be a land war. I don't get the complaints about no food. With deer, two grains, cows a granary and the +1 food for camps there 's plenty of food. Built three archers early and took out Te-Moak as it's in my way. Upgraded them to Composites and marched on to the capital Moson Kahni. Unfortunately he'd already dug himself in pretty deep with a few catapults and the Great Wall. It took a lot of Composite Bowmen to cycle in and out to grind it down. The upside, I didn't lose any unit and have quite a few units with good promotions. The downside, it took me until turn 125. If I had anticipated it took this long I'd have built some access-roads first. Still, with the Great Wall it's tough going in enemy territory. I'm glad it's now mine

Given how tough going the rest of the territory is I was almost thinking it better to go seafaring and build some frigates. But that wouldn't help my capture Berlin or Warsaw.

I like no ruins for GOTM, but I had to pity the Shoshone.

Onwards! "First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin!" (OK, I know this shows I'm an old fart, but here goes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTTC_fD598A)

Shoshone completed Terracotta Army during my early war with him. Pity he had no units left.

I think No Ruins messes with Shoshone's AI because I think he expects to wander and hit an upgrade ruin with a Pathfinder in the early game. He just kept spamming Pathfinders for ages.

Unfavorable terrain is the name of this game!

I settled in place and went liberty because there was a ton of land between me and the Shoshone. I also figured I would be taking lots of cities in a DOM game. I forward settled on him with my 2nd and 3rd settler, thinking I would backfill in a few turns.

Well, he forward settled right back next to my cap, making a patchwork of cities. So I dow'd him relatively early (T70 or so) with CB's and spears, thinking I would go ahead and cap him at that point.

Ugh, his cap has hills to the north, mountains to the west and forest to the south. I was teching toward Impis, though, and thought I could do it until he popped Great Wall. His city went to 29 defense! He murdered us.

I had to regroup and attack again at T115. In the meantime I put up NC (T101), ikwandas? and was going for universities. I came with Impis, lots of them, and killed him. He had pathfinders and cats.

In the meantime, Poland and Assyria had filled in the choke point on the continent with cities. I am busy now breaking that. Very tough, but after that's done, I will push west toward Assyria's cap, then take Germany, then sweep east to Portugal. Hopefully the Impis will last!

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital? I didn't see anything that I thought was much better, so I settled in place. At the very least it will allow cargo ships.
- What were your initial priorities? Writing for Library, Calendar for luxuries, and then build an army to conquer whoever I find first.
- What tech path did you follow and why? Pottery, Writing, Calendar, Archery, Mining, Bronze Working, Masonry, Push to Construction and Civil Service.
- Were there any early wars and who started them? I started one with Shoshone and took their Capital on Turn 102 with spears and CBs.
- How did you use your UU? It's coming soon. I haven't played with Zulu before, but I have some spears ready for upgrades. From what I can tell Impi's are awesome and Poland is going to suffer because of it.
- Was your UB helpful? Just finished the first couple, but I think early upgraded impi's will be nice.
- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K? Trade routes is the biggest. Need to keep the money rolling to finance the army.

What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?

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Deer, wheat, cotton, and wine were visible. Almost moved to the hill, but decided to keep it coastal in case I later wanted to send food ships back and forth from my second city.

- What were your initial priorities?

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Initial priority was to scout like crazy. I wasn't sure if this was a Pangaea or continents. Actually, I am still not sure. The problem is that Shoshone settled Te-Moak before I could ever get my second scout through the bottle neck. My initial scout was able to trek around the east, but he was sadly caught in a Moroccan border expansion, so I deleted him.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

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Pottery>AH>Mining>BW>Calender>Archery>Writing>Construction>Philo>now heading to Civil

- Were there any early wars and who started them?

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The Shoshone love to build the Great Wall, and because of of their early land grab, they become almost impossible to deal with until late game. Anyway, I wiped him off the map even though I really dislike doing that. I just didn't see another way around it. There was no way he would give me open borders after taking his cap, so I needed Te-Moak for passage. I'm sure that will go over well with the other leaders. Oh well, I'm a warmonger this game.

- How did you use your UU?

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Have not actually used the Impi yet, but I am building spearmen, which I usually avoid because I don't want a bunch of lancers late game.

- Was your UB helpful?

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Yes, I like the unique upgrade it gives to my units.

- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?

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Normally I would be concerned about trade routes, but his cities were too far away. To this point in the game, I have not built a single one. I think I have my first caravan like two turns away from completion.

One side note. During my war with Poc, I forgot to build my nc. Not only did I forget, but I actually thought I had built it already. It should have been done by now.

I made the same mistake, hicks53081. Zulu's upgrade path is Spears-Impi-Riflemen and so on. It's actually a little annoying because it is a long, long gap between Civil Service and Rifling on any tech path you care to pursue. I am hoping to find out it is worth it when I get Buffalo Bits Infantry when I hit Plastics.

Quick question about this game. I haven't played anything other than standard map/standard everything for a while. Only one ai opponent is making money at all in this match. Another is making no money per turn and the rest are losing money. Is that the product of more ai opponents on the map? Or is that just some fluky occurrence? Either way, I am sitting on a ton of lux and cannot sell them. It's kind of frustrating for turn 140.

casualplayer said:

Shoshone completed Terracotta Army during my early war with him. Pity he had no units left.

I think No Ruins messes with Shoshone's AI because I think he expects to wander and hit an upgrade ruin with a Pathfinder in the early game. He just kept spamming Pathfinders for ages.

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That's all AI with UU, they love them. But it sure gimped Pocatello, still he expoed in my face, two cities, halflway between where I considered my 2nd, then right next to my cap.

Since he gets such nicely and Rez connected fast, I let him and abandoned plans for liberty settler. Went one city GL, NC, then few archers to work on barbs, and spear, spear, spear..... Until I popped CS, then caravan and more archers.

Since I felt I was already far behind in conquest I DoWed him on t78 and took closest city with spears and archers, 2nd with impis and archers and will get cap with impi and CB unless I decide to push past him.

I figured I need more CB so I decided to take his cap and he promptly completed GW, too bad he moved his only CB outside the city few more turns and I will upgrade to CB and sail for Pedro. Then 2nd army need to be built for Assyria, Germany and Poland in that order. 1st will take Pedro, Venice Morroco and the two will meet in Lisbon, at least that is the plan right now.

Turn 120 now. Going OCC here stayed with Capital all the time so far. I focused on the GL-NC start. Then i started making archers. With GL i could get philo, construction and optics pretty fast and get an unusual warpath seeing this weird and ''large'' map. Why optics? Because the carnage begun with Assyria. Why Assyria? Well there is the kilimanjaro wonder wandering close by. I need to get a free upgrade for my future units.

So i have sent 6 CBs to him around the turn 70. Then i went for Poland. Bullied some cs among the way, generating hate. Then i make a detour to Berlin before it will be too late for CBs. I attacked Potacello with a 2nd army built from capital. Went Honor after 4 policies into Tradition for free gg that i have sent immediately to the first army. Barely got Moson Khani with the GW inside. He hadn't much build units, harrassed him in the early turns and stole a worker and a couple of units. That should explain his weak state.

A bit earlier i managed to get a DoF to Maria and sucked a bit of his gold. But i also traded borders after a civil service beeline. I wanted to see if there was something behind. And yes, all other civs were hiding. So no need for Astro. Machinery is my last military tech. Both armies will be ready to attack last 4 civs in a 2x2 package for the win.

- What did you consider in your decision of where to settle your capital?

Not much to consider, I settled in place. Good enough food/production for a city and with a couple luxuries. Nothing bad about it, gold would become an issue but with trade routes that can be worked around better than in previous civ5 expansions.

- What were your initial priorities?

Exploring to see the lay of the land. And getting my cities growing to support the war effort and building archers to upgrade to CB.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Pottery for granary and shrine and opening Calendar. Went down Animal Husbandry and Trapping early to get Pastures and camps. Also this map ended up lending itself to getting Circuses which really helps with early happiness and domination since you don't want to wait around to take out opponents. And you also don't want that unhappiness penalty for your units.

- Were there any early wars and who started them?

None except ones I started. I declared on Shoshone really early say around turn 40 and took his unescorted settler. I would end up taking another 2 more from him at various times before I took him out completely after upgrading to CB, around 70-80.

- How did you use your UU?
Meh, just a melee unit to take cities. The additional movement with a barracks could be handy, but the rest of the bonuses are useless as the early rush archery doesn't really depend on flanking or anything like that. I imagine it could be very strong in the right circumstances. Melee combat is just not very effective, the model is just broken when considering ranged attacking.

- Was your UB helpful?

See above, could be useful but not worth the investment.

- What differences did you have to consider in this game versus G&K?
Nothing really negative. Getting trade routes in place helps with the early struggle for gold. This map had so many nearby luxuries that I began trading them ASAP. I been buying select CS (mostly for happiness) and am still sitting on a large treasury (1000gp+) by turn 100.

I've taken out Shoshone and Poland before turn 120. Some of the AI have settled some far flung cities in my way so I took a break to give some thought on who I should declare on next.