Noble's Club CXXXII: Gandhi of India

pomthom

pomthom

Drive & Reverb
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Gandhi of India, whom we last played in NC LXXXVI; that was also the most recent time we played India. The Indians start with Mysticism and Mining.

  • Traits: Gandhi is Philosophical and Spiritual. PHI is one of the most powerful economic traits as it doubles your Great People generation; later in the game it also doubles the production speed of Universities which is more situational but can get you a quick Oxford University. SPI is also a very strong trait, allowing you to switch civics without any turn of Anarchy as penalty; this is extremely powerful for diplomatic manipulations. SPI also gives you cheap Temples which is good for Cultural victories (you need several in most cities) and for spamming Temples of the AP religion to benefit from the +2:hammers: bonus.
  • The UB: The Mausoleum, a Jail with an extra +2:). It can be a good warmongering building, since the happiness boost synergizes with the Jail's -25% war weariness to reduce :mad: from prolonged war.

  • The UU: The Fast Worker, a Worker with 3:move: instead of 2. Some people consider this one of the strongest UUs because it lets you start improving or chopping a mine or forest on the same turn you move there, is available immediately at the start of the game, and never goes obsolete.

And the start:



Spoiler map details :
Inland Sea, Flat, Standard Size.

AIs were chosen manually for a balanced game.
Spoiler edits :
Generated a few maps because I wanted a food "heavy" start, to entice use of the PHI trait in capitole.

A few edits were made:
  • Swapped starting positions of Darius and Genghis so that we would be between a "nice" Civ (Darius) and a "touchy" Civ (Sury).
  • Swapped Coal in BFC with Iron in 3rd ring, added Fish at closest coast.
  • Added a couple of strategic resources to AIs for balance.


Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:
There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:
  • 4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
  • 1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
  • 500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
  • 1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other continent if applicable, etc)
  • 1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
  • End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps in the early days of the series, and all of you for playing.
Click to expand...

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 132 Gandhi Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.
Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :
In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:
Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

  1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
  2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
  3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
  4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
  5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
  6. Exit the worldbuilder.
  7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
Spoiler huts and events :
Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.
 

Attachments

Thanks for the map!

Warrior on the hill seems like the move that reveals the most. Unless it reveals anything crazy, settling in place seems like a sound option.

Warrior to the forest 1SW unfogs the 2 grassland tiles that might have food, but moving the settler south loses 2 FPs and 2+1 forests for the capital.

The bare PH surrounded by forests looks as if it might have a metal resource in it. :)

Edit:
Now that I opened the save in game, zooming reveals that the tile 2N1W of the settler is a forested plain, not a flood plain. However, that doesn't change my decision to move the warrior on the hill.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and say SIP. N, NW, or W all loses the corn. SW ruins the cow. S and/or SE loses two riverside tiles and potentially destroys a flood plains. NE most likely loses your fresh water. E is really the only potentially viable option, but unless there's an extra food resource over there, I save the turn and SIP.
 
The warrior would have to reveal something pretty mind-blowing to justify a move here. Any move requires either ruining a good tile or losing a turn.

Gandhi is a pretty stellar leader, I'll probably take a shot at Deity.
 
I'll take this for a spin some this weekend. I've pretty much come to the same starting conclusion as everyone else to SIP. Starting tech path Agi>BW>TW>Pot>AH? Should AH be sooner? Plains cow doesn't thrill me.
 
Gonna attempt this one on Immortal. Wish me luck. I'd post screenshots but I don't really know how to do it without revealing the map
Spoiler :
Settled in place. 2 corns in BFC .Revealed a nice gold spot to the west. fishing city to the north. went worker first with AG>Wheel>Pottery as my starting techs. thinking bronze working should be next because of all the forest.
 
Early scouting will make a big difference here. If its cramped, I would go Ag-BW-AH and try to settle horses and rush someone.

If not cramped, then Ag-BW-TW-Med-Priest-Writing. Oracle CoL, farm the flood plains and pump out some scientists in the capital on to Lib.
 
I've been thinking of Cultural Victory and looks like I have a chance of make my dreams true and win Monarch first with Cultural Trolling. Gandhi is super. So, if I aim for Cultural Victory, I need to prioritize religion techs, trolltine and wonders. I need help. I wanna win this time.
 
Patchface said:
Early scouting will make a big difference here. If its cramped, I would go Ag-BW-AH and try to settle horses and rush someone.

If not cramped, then Ag-BW-TW-Med-Priest-Writing. Oracle CoL, farm the flood plains and pump out some scientists in the capital on to Lib.
Click to expand...

Not sure whether to spoiler or not... regarding information about the mapscript.
Spoiler :

The 3 major characteristics of Inland Sea are:

- You have 2 neighbors
- Plenty of land to settle a lot of cities
- Lots of rivers

This often means easy diplo, all the cities you need, and all the commerce you need to get to Lib. Then again, rushing someone you can take out early rarely is a bad option in any mapscript. Lots of options.
 
Oops i guess i should've spoilered this.

@JSS

Spoiler :
Don't forget the inland sea barbs. They can be brutal.
 
525 BC, Noble, Huts

Spoiler :
Very nice start IMO settled Delhi on the spot so I had a couple PH for production in an otherwise food plenty GP farm. Expanding OK Found Sury pretty quickly which initially was annoying...until I found he's shielding me from Nappy above ^_^

Also found Darius who I like but encroached (Pasargadae) way too quickly, will have to KO him soon and deal with Genghis eventually since you just can't not go to war with him for one reason or another. About to plop a city down next to Ligurian, a surprisingly well placed city IMO, need the marble for the Parthenon/Glib combo.

One more thing...Everyone bar one guy has Masonry, but no one "Wants to trade this technology away just yet". How does that work??


Oh and also guys...After seeing everyone on this forum use the acronym but there be no definition for it anywhere on the site that I can find, am I right in deducing that SIP means "Settle in plains"?
 

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Barbs giving me MAJOR hell early on.
Spoiler :
settled stone city to the east. Whipped out the great wall to stop them, also got the mids. Falling behind in tech now. Unforunatley surry in the northeast is hindu, while darius to the west is buddhist. What could possibly go wrong? I've got around 8 or nine cities now, just have to get the economy jumpstarted. Also a few warmongering characters should make for some nice fireworks:popcorn:
 

Attachments

Whutom said:
525 BC, Noble, Huts
Oh and also guys...After seeing everyone on this forum use the acronym but there be no definition for it anywhere on the site that I can find, am I right in deducing that SIP means "Settle in plains"?
Click to expand...
Settle in place. :)

One more thing...Everyone bar one guy has Masonry, but no one "Wants to trade this technology away just yet". How does that work??
Click to expand...
I'm not 100% sure, but might be because nobody has built the Pyramids yet. The AIs usually withhold from trading a tech if a wonder unlocked by it is available.

@Izuul & Gwynnja
Because Gandhi starts with Mining and the fast worker can improve those mines quickly, I went Agri -> Hunting -> Archery just to be safe. Gambling for copper could kill you if there's no copper easily accessible.
 
JSS said:
Settle in place. :)


I'm not 100% sure, but might be because nobody has built the Pyramids yet. The AIs usually withhold from trading a tech if a wonder unlocked by it is available.
Click to expand...
The AI won't trade a tech that unlocks a wonder that they're working on.
That's part of the reason the AI is so hesitant to trade math. Looks like everyone is trying to build the mids.
 
Gwynnja said:
The AI won't trade a tech that unlocks a wonder that they're working on.
That's part of the reason the AI is so hesitant to trade math. Looks like everyone is trying to build the mids.
Click to expand...

Not on my watch. I got the mids in 720AD :D

I know Noble isn't incredibly hard but its usually long gone by then. No one would give me masonry I expect GW was in demand.
 
Grrr... There's always an idiot as my neighbor that keeps poisoning my well. Not hard to imagine who it is. I'll utterly destroy the f****r when I get my hands on some destructive weaponry. Until then I have no choice but to kiss his behind.
 
JSS said:
Grrr... There's always an idiot as my neighbor that keeps poisoning my well. Not hard to imagine who it is. I'll utterly destroy the f****r when I get my hands on some destructive weaponry. Until then I have no choice but to kiss his behind.
Click to expand...

If you know who it is, focus your espionage points on him. At the very least it will make his missions more expensive. Every time Sitting Bull is in a game with me, all my espionage goes towards him. I can't stand that water-poisoning nonsense.
 
Gwynnja said:
If you know who it is, focus your espionage points on him. At the very least it will make his missions more expensive. Every time Sitting Bull is in a game with me, all my espionage goes towards him. I can't stand that water-poisoning nonsense.
Click to expand...

I put my espionage points on the one that I thought would skyrocket in techs as he usually does. But for some reason he's lagging behind his usual pace.
 
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