G-Major 121

[img=right]http://www.civfanatics.net/methos/hof/staff/gauntlet.gif[/img]While the general Hall of Fame is an ongoing competition, we like to run time-definite competitions between updates that we call Gauntlets. Standard Hall of Fame rules (*) still apply, but any games meeting the settings will be counted towards the Gauntlet.

Settings:

• Victory Condition: Cultural (espionage or traditional) (though all victory conditions must be enabled)
• Difficulty: Deity
• Starting Era: Ancient
• Map Size: Standard
• Speed: Normal
• Map Type: Any
• Required: No Tribal Villages
• Civ: Any
• Opponents: Any
• Version: 3.19.003
• Date: 25th October to 25th November 2013

Must not play as Inca.
The earliest finish date wins, with score as a tiebreaker.

Well, for me at least this gauntlet is a case of "put up or shut up"

I promise I will have a go, though victory is obviously far from assured.

Greatful for the Deity Gauntlet, but are you really sure about wanting to put Espionage and traditional in the same category? You know that espionage-wins belong into a category if its own because traditional culture can't compare in any way towards them.

(Still thinking espionage-wins should be completely banned from HoF, it's an exploit of an absolutely unbalanced feature that was never intended to work like that. )

I am taking apart in this Gauntlet as well. I was sick today so didn't work, instead I played with civ4 At first I tried it with raging barbs to get more points, but it seems it is impossible to get a good result with barbs... I ended up playing on Boreal with Gandhi, w/o barbs. I think I am doing good, but the thing is that this game will only increase my map component and very slightly leaders league in QM table.

Seraiel said:

Greatful for the Deity Gauntlet, but are you really sure about wanting to put Espionage and traditional in the same category? You know that espionage-wins belong into a category if its own because traditional culture can't compare in any way towards them.

(Still thinking espionage-wins should be completely banned from HoF, it's an exploit of an absolutely unbalanced feature that was never intended to work like that. )

Click to expand...

I am sure I don't want to put them in the same category, but the Buffy 3.19.004 is not yet ready and a culture game is overdue. I feel I need to commit to a culture game, and the last one denied culture by espionage. This is more or less a Culture by Espionage game...but don't be surprised if traditional culture games beat some espionage games. Eventually, these games will be segregated by victory type.

Step up and show your diversity! Don't tell Kaitzilla or WastinTime and you may get your EQM score!

You're trying to make me a your biatch shulec .



Of course I will play, but I still think that HoF-staff should work on a specific category and segregate the games of this Gauntlet in advance, because if you don't do that, you'll make all conservatively played culture-games obsolete.

Also: If standard-culture was allowed and in seperate category, I wouldn't have to worry about Kaitzilla and WastinTime, but that's not my main reason for this argument, though I'd find it good if you would write that on the front-page of Civfanatics when introducing the split.

Introducing new Victory type:

Reason: Shulec doesn't want Seraiel to worry about WastinTime and Kaitzilla. ^^

Seraiel said:

Of course I will play, but I still think that HoF-staff should work on a specific category and segregate the games of this Gauntlet in advance, because if you don't do that, you'll make all conservatively played culture-games obsolete.

Click to expand...

The current system is all I have to work with. Once Buffy 3.19.004 comes forward, a new category will open restoring all traditional culture games.

BTW, I asked the current #1 placeholder in the slot that this Gauntlet qualifies for if he felt this Gauntlet would be OK if a Espionage Culture game displaced his number one score. He didn't get back to me so I said screw him!!!

Yes, but the question is, will the Gauntlet also be splitted into 2 categories then? Because if not, there's absolutely nn for me to play traditionally (which I'd prefer a lot) when needing 100 points in EQM. I need to know that before starting to play, because the 1 or 2 tries I have at this will already eat up the whole time I have with playing the current SGOTM and with wanting to finish that stupid Marathon time victory that I began like a month ago...

Will you give me an answer to this or not?

Seraiel said:

Will you give me an answer to this or not?

Click to expand...

No splitting. It is not possible with the software or Mod.

Isn't it possible to simply have 2 G121? And are you telling me that all cultural-through-espionage-victories that were played with 3.19.003 will not be splitteable from the normal ones for ever? That'd mean that that one 300 BC or whatever cultural victory from Kaitzilla would remain in the cultural and not the upcomming espionage tab and could never (I repeat: never!) be beaten by anyone from 3.19.004 onwards .

To split the current G121 games you could simply check the logs for Espionage, couldn't you? Mass-spying on an enemies city that was gifted to that AI before and then gets reconquered shouldn't actually be so hard to find to differentiate the games, and we're talking of a maximum of maybe 10 games that you'd have to check, or are we expecting that more than 5 players will try this gauntlet and submit more than 2 games while most are playing the current SGOTM?

Seriously, those are some honest questions, if you find no way of seperating those games, I'm gonna set myself up 3 maps per HoF slot as long as BUFFY 3.19.003 is still allowed, you already agreed that it's allowed to continue games that were started before the new BUFFY, having 3 maps / HoF slot should be more than I need to take over all HoF culture-slots forever!

Seriously shulec, we're talking about the integrity of the HoF here, if you don't seperate those games from each other, players like Kaitzilla, WastinTime or me could accomplish making the cultural-HoF become totally unplayable!

Other possible solution: Simply reject all cultural victories for until the time when BUFFY 3.19.004 is available and move that single game of Kaitzilla in the new victory tab then.

It is my intention, and I believe, the intention of the HoF to create new category, which for simplicity's sake, I will call an espionage victory, to be implemented in the Buffy 3.19.004 mod. Any espionage games from Buffy 3.19.003 will be moved to that victory category in the HoF.

And again, no, there will not be two separate competitions for G-Major 121.

I know I don't have to point this out, but I will anyway. Most non-gauntlet games still qualify for EQM.

shulec said:

BTW, I asked the current #1 placeholder in the slot that this Gauntlet qualifies for if he felt this Gauntlet would be OK if a Espionage Culture game displaced his number one score. He didn't get back to me so I said screw him!!!

Click to expand...

See your plan! You're going to hide your #1 culture game under a new Espionage game. Then when the new category split comes. Poof! You're back on top! Clever.

WastinTime said:

See your plan! You're going to hide your #1 culture game under a new Espionage game. Then when the new category split comes. Poof! You're back on top! Clever.

Click to expand...

This gauntlet is also open to traditional Cultural Victory, so this may not work the way you envision, assuming someone actually submits a good tranditional Cultural Victory game.

So far, all I see in this thread is a lot of talk, no strategy and no action. Would be great to see some strategy for Espionage assisted Cultural Victory. Maybe even a walkthrough. It's not that easy to do until one has done it a few times.

So far, only Kaitzilla has demonstrated the skill necessary for Espionage assisted Culture to beat Traditional Culture. Let the competition betwen the two begin ...

Sun Tzu Wu

Can somebody explain this to me? How is shulec gonna come out on top with playing a traditional culture game? Does that mean I could lose i. e. 100 points from this Gauntlet later because my espionage-game would get sorted out somehow?

When the new BUFFY version comes out, shulec said all espionage based cultural victory submissions (including past ones) will be moved to the new Espionage Victory Comdition. Assuming noone submits a better traditional cultural victory, shulec would regain his #1 game in this slot at that time.

Sun Tzu Wu

Had a beautiful game. Stole 3 Workers (omg is workerstealing powerful) , build the GW, missed Oracle (went 2300 BC) , didn't research Music but teched Currency -> Col -> CS -> Philosphy instead, even with all that I beat the 400 Kaitzilla had at 225 AD with having 450 at 1 AD (screenshot available) . Got 6 GAs and 2 GSs also.

Build up 27k and built 61 spies. Gifted 1st city, got RNG ed (lost 2 spies too much) . Not that worse yet. Built a few additional spies, gifted next city, got harshly RNG-ed (lost over 20 of 60 spies) so I again had to rebuild before the next city because I didn't expect loss-rates of over 25% when I should only have had loss-rates of 16%.

So it wouldn't have gotten a really good victory date anyhow anymore, still decent, maybe 1000 AD, but not awesome. However, the 2nd city revolted and that made Lincoln get the idea to come with his whole stack and move in. I couldn't close Borders because I wouldn't have had enough to pay for the missing 20%.

I still hoped though, because I also had built a stack of 30+ units. Unfortunately, Lincoln had 50 which I noticed after the attack in 1100 AD.

Thx a lot for the tactic Kaitzilla but was it really necessary to mention that AI can do that? (Move the stack in. ) *sighs*

1st game submitted.

Played a horrible map. No possibilities to steal Workers, little Food, ok rivers, but therefor lots of Plains and Deserts. My capital was so bad that I had to farm 3 FPs in order to only work the Gold + the Spy-Specialist.

Only good thing was Oracle Civil Service in 1150 BC .

Finished before T200. Won't tell which turn exactly.

Plz be so kind and tell me if that game is valid / has the right settings to qualify for this Gauntlet shulec (or anybody else of the HoF-staff) .