Parallel Universes: No longer science fiction

DoYouBelieveInParallelUniverses?(PleaseReadFirstPost,andArticleIfYouHaveTime.)

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 62.2%
  • Only parts of the levels/theories mentioned in the article/first post

    Votes: 3 8.1%
  • No

    Votes: 9 24.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 5.4%

  • Total voters
    37

WillJ

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Edit: Sorry, but I had to squeeze in the poll question (as you can see), and in case you can't tell, I want you to read this post, and the article if you have time, before voting.

I'm assuming most of you have heard of theories about there being more than one universe, with other universes containing other copies of ourselves, and other identical universes, and maybe every possible permutation and combination of events being played out in at least one universe of all the multiverse, blah blah blah. I also assume many people, when hearing of this, either say, "Huh?" or "That's crazy!" Well, here's an interesting read:

Scientific American article about parallel universes

It's quite a long read, so I'll do my best at summarizing it:

Level 1 Multiverse

The type of multiverse easiest to understand is the Level 1 multiverse. It's simply space beyond what is visible (and this visibility is continuously expanding as light from the big bang moves outward), with other universes much like ours. The differences come from variations in the initial arrangement of matter, nothing else.

Level 2 Multiverse

This part of the theory is that there are other Level 1 multiverses within an even greater amount of space. Think of it as multiverses within a greater multiverse. Each Level 1 multiverse nucleates like raindrops in a cloud, and during this process variations in quantum fields produce differences between the multiverses. (Eh, read the article if you want that explained. ;))

Level 3 Multiverse

This part of the multiverse theory is about there being a vast number of parallel universes, playing out all the possibilities of everything, within the scope of quantum mechanics, fundamental laws of physics, etc. For example, if you flip a quarter in such a way that is completely random, in half of the universes where the quarter was flipped it would land on heads, in half tails.

Level 4 Multiverse

Now here's where it gets interesting. The universes of this level can vary even in the laws of physics.

Why should anyone believe this confusing crap?

Space appears to be infinite in size. If so, somewhere out there, everything that is possible becomes real, no matter how unlikely it is. Also, excerpt from the article about why an entire ensemble of parallel universes can be considered more simple than just one universe (it's the last part of the article, and it refers a bit to previous parts, so it might not make perfect sense unless you read the entire article):

So should you believe in parallel universes? The principal arguments against them are that they are wasteful and that they are weird. The first argument is that multiverse theories are vulnerable to Occam's razor because they postulate the existence of other worlds that we can never observe. Why should nature be so wasteful and indulge in such opulence as an infinity of different worlds? Yet this argument can be turned around to argue for a multiverse. What precisely would nature be wasting? Certainly not space, mass or atoms--the uncontroversial Level I multiverse already contains an infinite amount of all three, so who cares if nature wastes some more? The real issue here is the apparent reduction in simplicity. A skeptic worries about all the information necessary to specify all those unseen worlds.

But an entire ensemble is often much simpler than one of its members. This principle can be stated more formally using the notion of algorithmic information content. The algorithmic information content in a number is, roughly speaking, the length of the shortest computer program that will produce that number as output. For example, consider the set of all integers. Which is simpler, the whole set or just one number? Naively, you might think that a single number is simpler, but the entire set can be generated by quite a trivial computer program, whereas a single number can be hugely long. Therefore, the whole set is actually simpler.

Similarly, the set of all solutions to Einstein's field equations is simpler than a specific solution. The former is described by a few equations, whereas the latter requires the specification of vast amounts of initial data on some hypersurface. The lesson is that complexity increases when we restrict our attention to one particular element in an ensemble, thereby losing the symmetry and simplicity that were inherent in the totality of all the elements taken together.

In this sense, the higher-level multiverses are simpler. Going from our universe to the Level I multiverse eliminates the need to specify initial conditions, upgrading to Level II eliminates the need to specify physical constants, and the Level IV multiverse eliminates the need to specify anything at all. The opulence of complexity is all in the subjective perceptions of observers--the frog perspective. From the bird perspective, the multiverse could hardly be any simpler.


The "frog perspective" is refering to us humans, who only have a limited point of view: that of ourselves, living in this one universe. The "bird perspective" is the point of view of an outside individual who can see everything, looking down on it.

I'll post my opinions and questions later. And finally, feel free to vote in the poll!
 
Uhh ... theoretical astronomy is really not that far from fairy tales.
 
Your poll missed the "It's possible, but we can't tell yet" option.

Also:
Originally posted by WillJ
Space appears to be infinite in size. If so, somewhere out there, everything that is possible becomes real, no matter how unlikely it is.
I don't know about other claims, but this one is definitely wrong. Supposing that space is infinite and the number of states of matter in a finite nonempty amount of space is finite, then you can only prove that there must be infinite number of repititions of at least one arrangement of some finite region of space.
 
Originally posted by nihilistic
Your poll missed the "It's possible, but we can't tell yet" option.
Actually, we'll probably never be able to tell, since we can only see within the region of space that light has traveled to since the big bang (or whatever "beginning" theory you believe in). This region, although expanding, will never reach the other universes.
Originally posted by nihilistic
I don't know about other claims, but this one is definitely wrong. Supposing that space is infinite and the number of states of matter in a finite nonempty amount of space is finite, then you can only prove that there must be infinite number of repititions of at least one arrangement of some finite region of space.
I paraphrazed it from the article (or more like plagarized it ;)), and I was starting to doubt it too. What you say makes sense, although does there even have to be any repititions?

Edit:
Originally posted by Ohwell
I believe there is just infinite space out there, infinite possibilities and probabilities of everything.
So I'm assuming you mean yes?
 
Originally posted by WillJ
What you say makes sense, although does there even have to be any repititions?

What I'm saying is:

1. There may not be every possibility however wide space is. One example of it is the space that contains nothing. Another is the space that contains what we can observe and nothing else (which is by far nowhere near "every possibility").

2. The proof that something must be repeated an infinite number of times is quite trivial in topology, but presenting it in plain english is well ... difficult. Let me give it with a translation:

[MATHSPEAK]
The union of a finite number of totally-bounded (think of it as being able to be contained within a block of finite lengh, width, etc.) subspaces (areas) is still totally bounded and thus cannot cover the totality of our universe, which was assumed to be unbounded. Suppose there are N states in which a particular totally-bounded subspace S can be in, then within k*N+1 dictinct subsets of our universe thyat congruent to S in area, there must be one state that is repeated k+1 times. Since we can choose k to be arbitrarily large, there is an arbitrarily large (or infinite) number of repititions of some configuration of subspaces congruent in area to S.
[/MATHSPEAK]

In short, if you have to choose a integer from 1 to n (where n is a integer, therefore obviously finite) a infinite number of times, you will inevitably end up choosing some integer an infinite number of times.
 
I suppose one could say I believe in multiple universes by my belief in infinite scale. Our own (call it solar) scale is just a tiny blip in the chemistry of someone else's scale, and so on. Conversely, our smallest observable matter is built of whole live universes, and so on. Since the nitty-gritty of what goes on at our level little reflects the fact this galaxy hovers in the gas jet of some camper's stove (for example), we could be called detached and therefore "parallel", in a sense.
 
I believe that this universe was created due to some kind of weird 'how d'you do' in higher dimensions ('how d'you do' is a technical term denoting some kind of 'jiggery-pokery').
IMO, therefore the universe is a by-product of some kind of clash of forces, perhaps like the higher-dimensional equivalent of matter meeting anti-matter and a few dimensions get split off and form a stable bit of their own.
As you can see, it's somewhat woolly but I do believe that other universes can and do form in the same way. I don't believe that there are infinite universes playing out every possible arrangement....
So yes, I do believe there are parallel universes.
 
The current interpretation of Quantum Mechanics drives us into level 3 multiverses. I'd guess that most graduate physicists would accept that we are here at least. This interpretation works.

Brandon Carter's work on the Anthropic principle drives us to level 4. This is more controversial but the alternative is to accept the existence of a cosmic designer aka God so most theoretical astronomers (of whom I used to be one) would accept level 4 multiverses. When I gave a lecture on this to the local astronomy society the audience were split approximately 50/50.

These are not just science fiction but they seem at present to be the only reasonable explanations of our OBSERVED universe.

I vote yes.

Great articles btw.
 
Originally posted by gael
Quantum Mechanics to me always sounds like a physicist on really strong LSD.

I always fancied the Quantum Mechanic a modern version of the Aztec shaman, with his sometimes useful knowledge and fantastic ways of getting to it.
 
Evolution has proven to be a very strong concept. Why not extend it to whole Universes?

Let me quote myself from another thread:

Biological evolution is able to explain the diversity of life.
Now consider: why does the cosmos look as it does? Why is speed of light about 299,999 km/s and not 299,998 km/s?
I only can see that even a cosmos is subject to evolution and somehow 'breeds off' baby cosms, that have more stable physical laws.
(Are you still recieving me?)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=855121#post855121
 
Originally posted by napoleon526
Ever read the novel "Timeline" by Michael Crichton?
Sure, and Crichton uses some of these recent theoretical speculations well to develop a time travel theme. The "Paratime" stories (and one novel) written in the '60's by H. Beam Piper has always been my favorite parallel universe fiction.
 
One might imagine our universe such that when you fly into space in some direction, because of space being bended you'd end up at the same position from which you departed eventually..

Although I'd like to think this could be true, I have to correct myself for making a mistake people have been making all throughout history.. We have always seen ourselves as somewhat unique.. (IE: earth in the centre of the universe)

Looking at the matter in a more rational way, I go all the way with the anthropic way of thinking.. We are what be are, because this is what we observe..

My conclusion is, there are parallel universes out there..

Heck, they might even be clustered, and the clusters might be superclustered again and so on...

10 to the 10th to the 118th is one huge number... But on a scale to 10 to the 10th to the 125th it's only a fraction...
 
I very belive in parel universes in all levels' even the level 4.
BUT I belive that we couldn't move trough universes for a long long time, more 1000000000 years should pass befor...
 
Hehe - thats physicists. My doctor wouldn't know a superstring if it were holding up his trousers.
 
Originally posted by col
Hehe - thats physicists. My doctor wouldn't know a superstring if it were holding up his trousers.
You mean it isnt? Then what IS holding up his trousers. we observe that the trousers have not fallen, there fore we can infer that in this phenomenological continuum there exists at least one set of conditions whereby physicians trousers are no recidivist. Construing therefore the superset of all such sets and intersecting...;)

J
 
Reading that article, I found myself screaming for more illustrations to make sense of it all.
 
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