Noble's Club CXL : Darius of Persia

tijup

Warlord
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
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The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Darius of the Persians, whom we last played in NC LXVI. The Persians start with Agriculture and Hunting.

PersiaDarius.jpg


Traits:
Darius is FINancial and ORGanized, a combination that makes it easier to have a large empire early. FIN generates more money (+1:commerce: on a tile with 2:commerce: already), and ORG reduces maintenance costs.
The UB: The Apothecary, a Grocer that gives +25%. I find I don't build that many grocers in many games, but with a FIN leader this becomes very attractive.
Apothecary.jpg


The UU:
The Immortal - a Chariot that gets defensive bonuses (unlike most mounted units) and +50% versus archers. This makes them a very strong unit for early warfare.
Immortal.jpg


And the start:
attachment.php


NOTE:
This is a "large" map, as decided there. I used a Large, and not a huge, due to the map script.


Spoiler map details: :

Large map
Medium & Small
Random continents
tiny islands
Island region separated
Random AIs
Moved our scout 2N from its original position.
Spoiler map edit :

Linked 2 land masses to increase tensions.
Changed our BFC food ressource from Cow to Corn to reflect our starting techs.
I played the map without our UU ressource close by. I moved one, which was on an island quite far from us, to a closer position.
Changed a couple of tundras to more workable tiles for one of the AIs.



Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:

There are no hard and fast rules here: fun and learning are our primary goals, but we do suggest that you update your progress at various points in the game, using the Spoiler feature of the boards. You can post as often as you like; here's one suggestion:

4000 BC (starting thoughts, no spoiler required for that discussion)
1000 BC or so (how you decided to progress up the early tech/build paths, which AIs you have met, where you're thinking of putting cities, etc)
500 AD or so (after establishing some cities and a possible plan of action)
1200 AD or so (mid-game, Lib race, wars or peace, or whichever happened or didn't, met other
continent if applicable, etc)
1600 AD (or when you have decided on a course of action and a specific victory condition)
End of game (Victory!!! or defeat, no shame in losing, especially if you tried a higher level. Learning is what we focus on, not fastest win or biggest empire)

This is just a guideline. If you're trying to improve your game, then posting more frequent updates, in as much detail as you can manage, is the best way to get suggestions from other players. If you come to what seems like a major decision and you want some advice, post an update, regardless of what game-year it is.

We also welcome players to ask for specific game advice, as we have a number or stronger players who lurk and help out with solid tips, and of course, we help each other. Replies to specific questions should also be in spoilers, with a simple "@" in front of the person the answer is directed towards.

Special Thanks go to Bleys and TMIT, who really made this series a great one, r_rolo1, mapmaker extraordinaire, for his maps for most of the series, and all of you for playing.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 73 Pericles Noble" (or Monarch, if you want the AI to start with its usual Archery bonus tech, or Immortal for Archery+Hunting, or Deity to add Agriculture). This allows you to play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians: :

Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
Exit the worldbuilder.
Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.
 

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Reserved for results:

tijup, Prince, marathon speed, NRE, no Huts, 1731, domination.
JSS, Deity, 1848 AD, Space victory
rfcfanatics, Monarch, No Huts, NRE, 1936, Space victory
iggymnrr, Noble, Epic, Space, 1610 A.D.
 
Things to remember for large and huge maps (tips from various players on this forum)

_ You need to explore quite a bit to find AIs, thus, it's not an easy task to rush an AI in the early BCs.
_ Focus more on REXing than war in the BCs.
_ Pay attention to your maintenance. (ORG leaders come handy here - hello Darius :-) )
_ Fast moving units are in order to explore (and conquer).
_ Distances are greater between continental masses, your navy may need to be bigger than you used to have.
And for the same reason, you may need more than one SoD.
_ Beaker cost is higher
_ Domination and conquest are harder
_ Having a shrine of a dominant religion means a lot of gold
_ Corporations are more powerful
_ Early wonders are more powerful too I would assume, like Stonehenge and Great Wall. And of course Great Lighthouse if there are many small islands, or lots of coast.


Spoiler for this map / tips for less experienced players. :

Due to the map script, pay attention to your navy, that map script could result in a lot of barbarians galleys.
RNG has been good to us, our continent is easy to control.
Using Sid Sushi Corporation could be a fun strategy, if you are not in a domination/conquest mood, or want to try something else. See Seraiel's Replay #4 on how to leverage Sid Sushi on such a map (this game is inspired from that replay.)
 
Initial gut feeling is to move the scout 1 NE and mostly likely move the settler 1 NE as well to settle. Saves a flood plain- moves both the clams and the corn to the second ring [which may not be the best], but lets one settle on the small island to the SW with useful overlap.
 
Hmm I'll probably wait to hear a few more opinions on starting position before I pick one but my thoughts.

Initially I also thought about 1NE to save useful squares. However I'm now starting to see some downsides. You're off the coast and don't have fishing so the clams aren't going to be very useful for awhile. Also, I believe the way the title is situated it is not a fresh water tile.

I'm considering 1NW or even 2NW. Advantages would be PH hammer, on the coast, and fresh water. If 1NW you are giving up a chop. 2NW and you don't settle until T3. Also you'd trade a floodplain for a riverside grassland and riverside plain. Not sure it's worth it.
 
Possible map spoiler:
Spoiler :
I would certainly be thinking about the GLH here given the map type.


There's more water visible to the east of all of those tiles. My initial assumption is that we are on a boot-shaped peninsula that's only 3-4 tiles wide. SIP will not only kill a FP, but may also prevent another city from being settled to the east.

I will move the scout to the tile 1NE of the settler to see what we are dealing with here then decide, but atm i like settling 1NW on the PH.
 
Possible map spoiler:
Spoiler :
I would certainly be thinking about the GLH here given the map type.

Spoiler :

Most definitively.
GLH is a game changer in that map. It fuel my small empire and I kept a 60 to 80% research rate while warring and overexpanding.
 
Two funny screenshot from my game.

If you intend to play this NC game, don't open the spoiler now since it will reveal AIs and map.

Spoiler :


Gandhi capitulated to me without combat (well, I took his city on my continent before he resigned), and was stunt to see his forces:

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Hmm I'll probably wait to hear a few more opinions on starting position before I pick one but my thoughts.

Initially I also thought about 1NE to save useful squares. However I'm now starting to see some downsides. You're off the coast and don't have fishing so the clams aren't going to be very useful for awhile. Also, I believe the way the title is situated it is not a fresh water tile.

I'm considering 1NW or even 2NW. Advantages would be PH hammer, on the coast, and fresh water. If 1NW you are giving up a chop. 2NW and you don't settle until T3. Also you'd trade a floodplain for a riverside grassland and riverside plain. Not sure it's worth it.

Not sure about the freshwater part, but I am fairly certain 1 NE will still be on the coast. That plains square seems to have water to both the north and east to me. With suggesting 1 NE, I am also assuming the forest square 2E is the end of the peninsula, and I will be putting cities on the small island to the south and the PH 1W of the scout.

Spoiler :
Obviously that means lots of coast, but on a large map of this type, with an organized leader, GLH and lots of coastal cities calls to me.


PS- Also will probably play this on epic or marathon for nostalgia reasons.
 
Is anybody else getting black flags? I checked the Immortal save and noticed some non-standard flagdecal definitions (like FlagDECAL_Persia.dds instead of FlagDECAL_Scimitar.dds)

@Tijup, did you use a mod when generating the saves?
 
@fierabras
Doh, I think you're right, I forgot to unload BAT when I generated the map :(
Sorry about that, I bet that it means that all AI units will have their flags black too.
I can't fix it now, since I'm at work, I will generate an other game with the same AIs to get the correct flags from the xml file later today, or over the weekend.
 
Will sit out this one for the same reason as cseanny (maybe I'll start just to see what it looks like), but just wanted to point out that even if you SIP, it will be possible to settle the southern island as you only need 2 tiles apart when settling off-continent.

Looks like there is a river to the north, but main priority with the scout should be to check out surroundings, which in this case is probably NE of settler. Looks like that spot may still be coastal, but loses freshwater :health:

Edit: Loaded up the game and tile-gazed, and that is definitely coast to the east.
 
Played a little while.
Spoiler :
Got GLH in 1320, but only had 2 cities by then. Had hoped there was more room to expand into without going off the starting continent, but with jungle that Boudica grabbed, there isn't much left.

Got out a workboat early and have explored quite a bit, running into a few more civilizations. If I am to continue, city 3 will probably go off to the east island where there is gold and good food.


Standard size games take a crazy amount of time for me, so I doubt I'll play this one out in any case.
 
I also will need the version without BAT. So I guess I'm delayed from playing this from the get go.

I did move the scout one space, and I think I"m settling 1NW.
 
@ Pangaea
Spoiler :
Where did you settle? I'm guessing 1NW (that's where I did). If you open Min > AH > Fish > Sailing > Masonry > BW >

And open build is worker, followed by a warrior until you reach 2 pop. Switch to a settler immediately followed by a 2nd worker. Found 2nd city NE, inbetween Cow/Horse. Hook both up with first worker (horse first) and have your 2nd worker road to horse city. Your Capital finishes a barrack and then nonstop Immortal. Horse city, after initial warrior just spams Immortals.

This easily lets you Kill Boudica (I only lost one Immortal) and capture workers and all 3 cities very early. You still finish TGLH in the 1300-1200 range while expanding even more. Block off that little tip going South to the west of Louie and you have room for around 17-18 cities.
 
Hi guys,
I fixed the issues, it's now compatible with CivIV without BAT mod.
Sorry about that.
 
@ Pangaea
Spoiler :
Where did you settle? I'm guessing 1NW (that's where I did). If you open Min > AH > Fish > Sailing > Masonry > BW >

And open build is worker, followed by a warrior until you reach 2 pop. Switch to a settler immediately followed by a 2nd worker. Found 2nd city NE, inbetween Cow/Horse. Hook both up with first worker (horse first) and have your 2nd worker road to horse city. Your Capital finishes a barrack and then nonstop Immortal. Horse city, after initial warrior just spams Immortals.

This easily lets you Kill Boudica (I only lost one Immortal) and capture workers and all 3 cities very early. You still finish TGLH in the 1300-1200 range while expanding even more. Block off that little tip going South to the west of Louie and you have room for around 17-18 cities.

@cseanny
Spoiler :
Don't have the game open now, so going off memory, but settled NE instead of NW. Didn't tech HA yet, as I focused so hard on GLH. Settled city 2 NW and haven't taken the cow city yet. If there is a horse there, I should obviously have settled that 2nd, but I didn't know that.

IIRC, opened with worker, then workboat, a couple warriors, another workboat at some point, grew a bit then chopped out a settler, and put the other three chops into the GLH. I didn't want to risk it going in 1600BC again, like in the last NC.

The scout survived, so I fogbusted with him for a good while, plus a warior. That was enough really, until some warriors that must have already been spawned elsewhere killed the scout. Easy to fogbust this land thankfully.

Time and time again in these games I do worse than other people's opening, so if I intended to play this game through I would probably start over and try to Immortal rush. I really liked the look of the land to the east though, and with Louis and Frederick over in that general direction, I'd want to settle those spots in due time anyway.
 
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