TSG79 Opening Actions

Welcome to the TSG79 Opening Actions thread.

STOP - Please do not continue reading this thread until you have completed at least 80 to 100 turns in your game.

This thread is used to discuss the game once you've started playing through your first 100 turns. Apart from normal decency, the only posting restrictions are to please not post videos until the deadline is finished and to use the spoiler tags for screenshots. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. Please remember that we are running a family friendly site, so express anger or frustration with this in mind.

Please use this thread to discuss your goals for the game and your opening moves through the first 100 turns. We are going to try something new and limit your game description in this thread to the first 100 turns. Anything after that should be posted in the After Action thread once you have completed your game.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
- What were your initial priorities?
- What tech path did you follow and why?
- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
- What are your early thoughts on France's new traits?

T109, Great Wall Poland has gotten himself in a bit of trouble. He backstabbed me because I put a city between me and him and then bought tiles in his face. Now he cant take the city. He keep sending more and more men and they all die.

Starting terrain made me choose a standard tradition 2cc opening.
Initial priority was monument and scout worker and granary. Wanted to steal workers but no chances.
Tech was Pottery Mining Calendar (was gonna do Stone Henge but changed my mind) Archery Writing Math for HG and Petra > got them both. Plus 36 food in Paris, 1 turn away from Civil Service. Tradition finished. Desert Folklore Catholic Holy city Pilgrimage Cathedrals.

France is great, but the Traits are only most useful late game.

I've played to turn 95.

At first I was pretty excited with a really strong, Petra friendly capital. But at this point I am less optimistic.

I usually like to get 3-4 cities before NC for CV, but I only saw 1 good spot worth expanding to early - the 2x incense, wheat & cow to the west. Poland got there around turn 32 with a liberty start, so I basically decided to go OCC, or at least open that way. I'm still on one city now. It's strong, with Petra but I have a feeling my science is just not going to cut it.

I am debating whether to build a second city to the SE, with those 3 fish and mountain. It's really the only decent site I see nearby, but requires optics and purchasing a lighthouse to be worth anything. If so I will probably build the settler right after oracle. Still, I might just see how the OCC attempt plays out.

opening build order:
- monument (cause no ruins)
- started scout for 2 turns
- switched to shrine when pottery finished
- finished scout
- 2nd scout (stole worker)
- worker
(purchased archer to help w/barbs)
- granary
- library
- caravan to Poland for few beakers
- NC - finished t74
- archer
- archer
- Petra - finished t91
- currently building Oracle

Tech order was pottery, AH, mining, archery, calendar, writing, philo, currency, construction, civil service. Basically I wanted fast NC then Petra. AH was a mistake in retrospect but at the time I thought it would help me identify good spots for expansion. Should probably also have skipped construction til after CS. Poland was bearing down on me and I wasn't sure they would be bribable so I thought I needed CBs. They did end up being bribable.

I got desert folklore and founded Judaism with tithe and swords to plowshares. So that's all right. Close to enhancing soon.

Signed an early DOF with Poland, but they denounced me and almost DOW'd a bit later. I had a unit keeping watch and as previously mentioned, was able to bribe him to attack Indonesia instead. Luckily I had pretty good scouting...if I hadn't met Indonesia by then I think I might have died. He had swordsmen and catapults and I was still a couple turns from construction.

I'm not a big fan of the opponents on the map. Shoshone seems isolated so they could easily run away with wonder building. Ethiopia could be a threat too. I actually like having Shaka on the map to mess with cultural rivals, so that is good, but he unfortunately not close enough to Shoshone and Ethiopia. He is at war with Pedro already...maybe if he can totally clear out Brazil in the medieval age, he will be a threat to the others. Poland will probably put a hurt on Indonesia. Russia doesn't usually go for culture, but they are also isolated so I'm keeping an eye on them.

social policies were pretty straightforward so far, tradition-legalism-landed elite-monarchy. about to finish tradition and open aesthetics in the next 5 turns (assuming i get oracle).

I have only met 3 cultural CS on the map so far (think i have discovered 14 of 16 CS) so I'm hoping theres another one. 2 of 3 are hostile which is not ideal. I have the 3rd (friendly) allied already with a trade route and 500 gold. But that's the only one, I didn't manage any barb quests this game.

France's traits are awesome but they come later

@budweiser, seems like you're doing better even though I stole a worker. losing that 2nd city spot really hurt

What looked like a good start got ugly really fast. I settled one tile NW on the river hill. Built Monument - Shrine - few turns into Scout - Great Library. Didn't finish the scout because no ruins. Tech order Pottery - Writing - Mining - Calendar - AH. GL was a real gamble that may not pay off. Made the mistake of signing an early DoF with Poland, who then took advantage and spammed 2 cities toward me by turn 35, the second of which is 3 tiles from my capital and encroaches on my third ring (he nabbed the sheep and I would need to buy to the third gold before he gets it as well). The worst part is that his settlers were unprotected and I could have stolen them had I not signed the DoF (negative diplo hit would cripple the rest of the game). I stopped a few turns before GL finished (not guaranteed yet) and no pantheon yet (DF still not in the bag). Not sure if I will continue, or re-start and play it completely differently. It may be interesting to just keep going, but peaceful is definitely not in the cards. I may go for domination instead, if I can get a really strong capital and at least 1 (ideally 2) more cities planted somewhere.

chazzycat said:

@budweiser, seems like you're doing better even though I stole a worker. losing that 2nd city spot really hurt

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look at my game... just plant your satellites there and you'll be fine...
CV is all about the capitol.

I went Tradition, with Monument-Shrine-Great Library opener. Managed to get Desert Folklore and Great Library, as well as Petra. Unfortunately I think I've put myself in a risky position because I haven't built any other cities, and already I can see that my science isn't cutting it.

Also, weird observation, but Ethiopia got the first religion and went Eastern Orthodoxy. Is that normal???

Turn 110

Have met Poland, Ethiopia, Russia, Shoshone and Zulu. Haven't done much exploring as my first scout died. Zulu has captured one of the unmet civ's capital. I'm finishing up the farms around Paris, so its about to really take off.

- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?

Paris was set in an excellent spot which just begged for Petra. The hills and mountains sort of isolated me from the others and I knew at best I have one great city and two fair to good ones. I went with an early second city and was able to forward settle close enough to Poland to grab an incense.

- What were your initial priorities?

Finding everyone so I knew what I was up against. Getting a shrine up to have a decent shot at Desert Folklore pantheon. Getting Petra, as it would probably be game-over if I missed it.

- What tech path did you follow and why?

Pottery > Writing(embassies) >Mining/Calender(luxuries) > Currency(Petra) > Philosophy(NC) > Education (I'm three away from finishing Theology)

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?

Full Tradition. Paris would have to be huge to do this in a decent time.

- What are your early thoughts on France's new traits?

Paris with Petra and this starting spot, will make the most the UA as Paris will be cranking out those important wonders with ease.

First session ended here at 112.

Nice starting position. I settled NW on the hill. East side was blocked by 2 barb camps on each way . So i scouted the west part until i could burn down a camp. But that was a good move anyway because when a scout and a warrior encountered 2 unprotected workers from Poland, both workers have been stolen

I decided to stay at war with this guy. He's close and going for Liberty. I built 3 cities + NC in the early 80's and concentrated an attack of 6-7 CBs on him. I also plundered 2-3 caravans for free gold. Got 1 city and decided to get his capital as well. But it was too much well protected. He got hurt a lot though and i made a highly favorable peace deal. He gave me 3 of his cities(he had 6 in the beginning) so he's down to 2 left right now. I sold 2 of them to Brazil at a high price and had keep the other.

So i'm now with 5 cities, Oracle in 2nd city and Petra in capital. 2 puppets that i will eventually turn into regular cities. Lot of extra luxs to sell and stuff with all these cities. DoF with Brazil and Ethiopia. Enhanced religion. Got Tithe, Cathedral, Sword into Plowshare and +25/50% spread(Printing Press). I obviously took DF at the beginning.

I need happiness for next turns but lot of money produced(+85 gpt) so the problem will be solved soon. 5 turns from Education.

not a fan of CV so i'm gonna go dom for fun.. this map is amazing.. i'm slow burning it while i build up my cap and 3 cities.. bribed poland to war with shoshone and they've been going at it a while.. i have almost no units but have roads all along the hills to snipe poland when he turns on me.. just passed education and teching machinery.. i'm gonna wait til artillery before i start moving.. the terrain is brutal between poland and me and he has so many cities and units.. using gold to buy up all the CSs..
its very political out there with this one denouncing that one so i've got to pick a side soon (whatever side russia is on so she doesnt gank me)..
DF, tithe, mosques, pagodas, +20% friendly fighting.

Turn 100.

Well this one's off to an interesting start. I stole a settler early from Poland, but he got it back and killed my scout (just barely! grr.) I planted one city over near him for the incense.

I planned to more or less beeline hanging gardens and petra. While I was executing this plan, Poland spammed cities all around me, including one directly south by the copper (stealing my 3rd city spot…grr.) Finished HG but started to see lots of Polish units at my borders. Tried to bribe a war between him and Indonesia, but neither would do it.

So, two turns before Petra was done, he DOWed me. Luckily I had enough money to buy walls in my 2nd city. Finished Petra and teched to CBs. At this point I really needed to get on National College and other goodies, but alas a friggin war. My second city was at 0 hp for awhile, but I managed to keep his melee units away. Signed a white peace turn 98.

Not sure where to go from here. My cap is of course awesome with HG and Petra, but I have only two cities. Not sure if there is a good spot for a 3rd. I'm just now building a library in Warsaw and NC after that, so I'm gonna be way behind in science. And with only two cities, it'll be hard to catch up. Might have to army up and kill Poland, but there's already so much to do in a CV I'm afraid that will put me way off the mark. I guess I could go for a warmongering CV, but I really wanted to play this one peacefully. Damn you Poland!

mhtrtc said:

Turn 100.

Well this one's off to an interesting start. I stole a settler early from Poland, but he got it back and killed my scout (just barely! grr.) I planted one city over near him for the incense.

I planned to more or less beeline hanging gardens and petra. While I was executing this plan, Poland spammed cities all around me, including one directly south by the copper (stealing my 3rd city spot…grr.) Finished HG but started to see lots of Polish units at my borders. Tried to bribe a war between him and Indonesia, but neither would do it.

So, two turns before Petra was done, he DOWed me. Luckily I had enough money to buy walls in my 2nd city. Finished Petra and teched to CBs. At this point I really needed to get on National College and other goodies, but alas a friggin war. My second city was at 0 hp for awhile, but I managed to keep his melee units away. Signed a white peace turn 98.

Not sure where to go from here. My cap is of course awesome with HG and Petra, but I have only two cities. Not sure if there is a good spot for a 3rd. I'm just now building a library in Warsaw and NC after that, so I'm gonna be way behind in science. And with only two cities, it'll be hard to catch up. Might have to army up and kill Poland, but there's already so much to do in a CV I'm afraid that will put me way off the mark. I guess I could go for a warmongering CV, but I really wanted to play this one peacefully. Damn you Poland!

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hmmm that's a new one... he should not be able to get south of you unless he had optics... (and even then it is very easy to block his disembarkation with scouts)

Half-assed warring is very bad at CV (warmonger penalty = other AIs hate you = no OB/routes) either wipe every civ completely off except one, or grit your teeth and bear it (and be nice to those not so nice to you)

Also half-assed wondermongering is bad as well If you are going HG + Petra then stay OCC until NC finishes. Safety is usually more important than getting that 2nd city up 10 turns or so earlier.
(esp if it delays your NC, which is already late if you went for straight for Currency after Writing)

kb27787 said:

hmmm that's a new one... he should not be able to get south of you unless he had optics... (and even then it is very easy to block his disembarkation with scouts)

Half-assed warring is very bad at CV (warmonger penalty = other AIs hate you = no OB/routes) either wipe every civ completely off except one, or grit your teeth and bear it (and be nice to those not so nice to you)

Also half-assed wondermongering is bad as well If you are going HG + Petra then stay OCC until NC finishes. Safety is usually more important than getting that 2nd city up 10 turns or so earlier.
(esp if it delays your NC, which is already late if you went for straight for Currency after Writing)

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Blocking his settler sure would have been a smart thing to do!

Yeah, probably should have OCC until after Petra. Without the war, the timing would have worked out well with the second city having a library and whatnot before Petra was done, then NC, then likely a 3rd or maybe 4th city. So you would go NC before HG/Petra? I didn't want to risk losing them by going Philo first. I did intend to get a library up early, at least before HG, but I messed that up. Probably by spending turns on a settler that should have waited.

Wondermongering is so much fun I don't want to give it up. I usually play Deity and wondermongering is not an option, so when I play on lower difficulties it's hard to resist. And of course with Petra and that capital, the wonders get done so quickly. Oh, a wonder in 7 turns, yes I think I will thank you.

Anyway, I'm another 100 turns in now and things are going pretty well. Number one in tech now with my two cities. I won't say too much in this thread, but I think I'm on pace to win in a decent but not great amount of time and Poland has played nice since our first war. It seems his people like my religion.

Lord knows I've spent plenty of money sponsoring wars, though. Thanks Tithe!

mhtrtc said:

Blocking his settler sure would have been a smart thing to do!

Yeah, probably should have OCC until after Petra. Without the war, the timing would have worked out well with the second city having a library and whatnot before Petra was done, then NC, then likely a 3rd or maybe 4th city. So you would go NC before HG/Petra? I didn't want to risk losing them by going Philo first. I did intend to get a library up early, at least before HG, but I messed that up. Probably by spending turns on a settler that should have waited.

Wondermongering is so much fun I don't want to give it up. I usually play Deity and wondermongering is not an option, so when I play on lower difficulties it's hard to resist. And of course with Petra and that capital, the wonders get done so quickly. Oh, a wonder in 7 turns, yes I think I will thank you.

Anyway, I'm another 100 turns in now and things are going pretty well. Number one in tech now with my two cities. I won't say too much in this thread, but I think I'm on pace to win in a decent but not great amount of time and Poland has played nice since our first war. It seems his people like my religion.

Lord knows I've spent plenty of money sponsoring wars, though. Thanks Tithe!

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I went HG + Petra THEN NC (1-city NC was built in 5 turns ) during that time I bought a settler after selling some gold to friends and I hard built one after that (took 3 turns mind you); on this particular map all you have to do is buy some tiles/position some units to close out your tidy piece of land then you can expand at your leisure.

T100. Damn, there's Pedro, Shoshones and Indonesia. Also, Ethiopia and its crazy missionaries.
Poland : I wonder if it's a backstab civ. Denounce me T98. So I delay civil service for construction.


- How did the terrain and map settings affect your early decisions?
Go for Petra. Cause Poland position, I miss HG for a couple of archers.
I settled on hill NE near oasis.
France seems to have less lux than other civs. So, I know, I'll have few spot for a 3th city. Scout helps to find it.

- What were your initial priorities?
Find workers. One steal from CS, one alone from Poland captured by barbarians. So, no war now.

- What tech path did you follow and why?
Pottery - Mining - Currency - Philo - Theology (for HS) - Construction (CB and Wall). I'll have Poland DoW in few turns. Nobody wants fight him. I send him against Russia, but it's only for 15 to 20 turns, I'm sure.

- What Social Policies did you choose and why?
Full Tradition, ended with Oracle. T100 I opened Aesthetic.

- What are your early thoughts on France's new traits?
Strong for CV. Chateau are helpeful with hotel and airport. With Petra, it will be easy to put it on desert tiles.
I mind where I'll plant academies.

I have 2 city. Orléans is East between 2 sheep tiles next to a mountain. This city will be tiny (around 12 to 13 at end of the game) but there's a lot of hammers. Useful for units against Poland and Russia. I plan to settle a 3th city next Russia, East near whales. Another tiny city, I need host for caravan food to Paris.

I lost a couple of turns cause barbarians. A camp south in polar tiles send a cavalery stole one of my workers, pillage my gold. So it was 5 to 10 turns of unhappiness.

With Pedro, I'll need Internet. Too bad, France UA allow CV on Immortal without around T260 without. So, have 4 city is need. I wonder where I can plant it. Maybe near a fur spot west between a CS and Poland, maybe.

I create Catholicism with Desert Folklore. I regret Pagodas, now I realize Poland will be a big problem. I take production bonus to max + 15% and sword to plowshare.
If I get HS and Angkor Wat, I will be easy. If not, PP tell me if I'll have a hard second half.
Pedro like Louvre, so I'll need to rush archeology with Oxford. It's so many turn lost for the end game.

This is my first GOTM. I am on turn 100.

I settled in place. I did a tradition start. I feel like tradition leads to a stronger position.

My initial priorities were exploration, science, and growth. I researched mining>calendar>writing>philosophy. I am working on civil service. I’m planning to stay small and peaceful until artillery, and then start conquering.

Casimir settled two cities straight on a path to Paris.

I settled Orleans to the SE on the coast next to a mountain, near the copper.

Paris is building Petra.

Aaronk24 said:

This is my first GOTM. I am on turn 100.

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Welcome to CivFanatics and GOTM.

Glad you decided to join us. Best of luck in future.

I'm on turn 120 or so. Poland has almost completely surrounded me with cities, so this one will be OCC. My initial priority was getting DF and Petra, both of which I got. My city has about 16 people and +15 food (and 40-something hammers) with no trade routes or maritime city-states, and I have 3 specialists. The only issue is, of course, that I only have one city. It's going to be tough to beat Brazil in this one.

Settled on the hill next to the lake. Opened scout, scout, shrine to make sure of DF.
At t100, doing OK, but Brazil bummed me out when he beat me to Hanging Gardens by a few turns.
Got Petra in the capital at least though.
Pretty happy with my four city Tradition start, good faith and culture. Got Tradition finished and also Aesthetics opened by t98, without Oracle too. Probably too late to go for Oracle now. Science is a little slow though since I haven't got NC done yet.
Just as I'm ready to work on it though my BFF neighbour Poland decides he's not really my friend and DoWs me! I guess my army was looking very weak to him.
According to the Demographics screen his military might is three times mine.
What do you think? Can he hurt me ???



He's not going to take Paris, but I think he's going to be a pain in the butt for at least another 150 turns!

Arnold_T said:

According to the Demographics screen his military might is three times mine.
What do you think? Can he hurt me ???

He's not going to take Paris, but I think he's going to be a pain in the butt for at least another 150 turns!

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In my game, he DOW'd about T100...just after DOF (he offered) and a lucrative 240 gpt deal for one of my gold deposits. Oh, and he finished Terracotta Army about then also. Did he build it in your game as well? He sent the whole enchilada at Paris, I counted 20 units, mix of CB and swords with a couple of pikes for good measure. Paris held out for 5 turns, though my lack of a defensive army was devastating.